156 replies to this topic

[Mr Beefy]

CocoaJin, on 24 October 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

How do you help someone who admits he isn't a swift learner in a game that requires adaption to both players and game dev changes, and requires a player's own skill progression?

This isn't whack-a-mole(well maybe if you're a skilled Direwolf pilot in a cooperative PuG), things change constantly, tactics, builds, specs and models. I'm not sure there is a solution for this guy, because if it wasn't changes to rewards(though some with a personal bias against the reward changes will jump on this to further their campaign)that would have stumped him, something else down the line would have.

So assuming this guy not being to bright wasnt hyperbole, the only thing I can think of...

You have a point for sure, but lets not set him up for failure from the very get go by having a unreasonable grind from after his 25th match till the 6 months it takes him to grind out enough to get a decent stable of mechs in his garage so he can maybe just maybe learn to adapt and find the ones he does well in. OR lets not further handi cap him and others by only giving them 1/3 of the the mech price back if they screw up and find the mech they had to grind so hard for or even worse bought with MC is not the right one for them to do well in.

Is this a unreasonable expectation for a new or even veteran player to have in this game, or any game for that matter?

And back to the core problem, that PGI could fix in the blink of a eye if they wanted to. Have a little faith in us PGI, we have stuck by you and continue to do so.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 09:07 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Well when I first started this game, I was just having fun and didnt really pay attention to creds or even winning and losing for a long while.

I sure hope these earnings complaints isnt by the "I wanna make an alt to exploit the game as much as possible and getting an OP mech is to much trouble" crowd.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Moonlander, on 24 October 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

Mad? Wat? Are you just saying stuff to make yourself look internet cool because you have no real argument? Isn't that cute. If you're going to pretend, please put your meme's in a picture so it's at the very least, entertaining.

:allears:

[Maver0ick]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 24 October 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

I really wish this forum had an ignore function. I've yet to see you post anything constructive.

Profile > Forum Profile > Edit My Profile > Ignore Preferences

Edited by Maverdick, 24 October 2014 - 09:11 AM.

[Mr Beefy]

Johnny Z, on 24 October 2014 - 09:08 AM, said:

Well when I first started this game, I was just having fun and didnt really pay attention to creds or even winning and losing for a long while.

I sure hope these earnings complaints isnt by the "I wanna make an alt to exploit the game as much as possible and getting an OP mech is to much trouble" crowd.

Can I ask what was different about the game back then... anything different about the pay scale? Was this when they dropped rearm repair and kept the earnings 30% higher for awhile....? Because I didn't come on till just after those very good days some of you got, and those days really helped you all out with C-bills and XP.


Regardless if they are alt accounts or not, as long as the ones that are constructive, and bring valid points up and don't go full ******** than... it really shouldn't be a concern. I for one setup a alt account for the sole purpose of the lack of knowledge regarding PGI's stance on Seasons, if we would be able to play all our mechs, clan and IS, or if we would be stuck with one or the other. This is my clan only account, and I love the new cent... not crazy about the hard points, but thank you PGI for giving it to us as a bonus for our support to you. :-) However I do find that my Cent does look rather out of place in my Clan only garage.

I would also like to say that I never exploit my account, I do not like my own post or like two of the same post by others, and I never vote more than once in any polls. That would be a douche thing to do, and will not lower myself to be like that.

BTW, I did vote for the change in MM with a yes, but I am cool with it either way at this point and understand the ones that want to choose what mode they are in. I do have a very hard time understanding the ones this last event, that dropped in modes they refused to play to the objectives of the given mode. Even going as far to ensure the team failed to get it when we had it in the bag and 20 points instead of 10.

More importantly, I did Vote for the GRASS HOPPER over the black night :-)

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 09:23 AM.

[Sprouticus]

ABalazs, on 24 October 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

First of all, I am a really new player, and not a so swift learner, but I tried to endure the initial hardship of this game, because it looked promising with all those customization options.

C-bill came slowly, because I rarely manage to kill, but I can make 5-6 assists per game. I earned 60k per game - 70-100k by per win and 25-60k per loss. Not great but enough to earn a DHS on a mech in a weekend day.

Now, with this great Rewards 2.0, even after the hotfix my income approximately halved. I played four hours today, earning 350k C-bills.

I wanted to buy a new Shadowhawk, a third one to try to elite at least one chassis, but at this income rate, I have no chance at all to finish the grind until the sale ends. So thanks for all the fish, PGI.

Would be great to get back all the real money I sank in this (not that) great game, I have a plenty of unspent MC, fun per dollar ratio seems to be pretty low here.

You all just got trolled. 350k/4 hours......HA!

This is a blatent attempt by someone on an alt account to complain about the new rewards...

/ignore

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Maverdick, on 24 October 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

Profile > Forum Profile > Edit My Profile > Ignore Preferences

Thanks, this is going to be real useful.

[Revis Volek]

Vassago Rain, on 24 October 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

In conclusion, my contributions don't really matter. My performance doesn't really matter. Just be on the winning team, and you make fat money.

Its not so much what you did, its that your damage doesnt matter nearly as much as it used to. Your stats are rather similar outside DMG...

DMG doesnt have the weight it used to, kills still seem to hold some merit but just making sure you do the most DMG to targets before they drop seems to be a great way to Farm. I just alpha everything....even if i shut down and someone else gets the kill i get the Most DMG reward and sometimes i can get that 3 or 4 times in a match and no kills.

I have yet to have a match under 140k.....have not ran a single TAG/NARC since the change and i hate LURMS!. Also cant see all the rewards you get for each match on that tiny little window!

Edited by DarthRevis, 24 October 2014 - 09:24 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

You have a point for sure, but lets not set him up for failure from the very get go by having a unreasonable grind from after his 25th match till the 6 months it takes him to grind out enough to get a decent stable of mechs in his garage so he can maybe just maybe learn to adapt and find the ones he does well in. OR lets not further handi cap him and others by only giving them 1/3 of the the mech price back if they screw up and find the mech they had to grind so hard for or even worse bought with MC is not the right one for them to do well in.

Is this a unreasonable expectation for a new or even veteran player to have in this game, or any game for that matter?

And back to the core problem, that PGI could fix in the blink of a eye if they wanted to. Have a little faith in us PGI, we have stuck by you and continue to do so.

It took me since March to have a 66 mechs stable.....i dont see why this guy should get special treatment.

Thats 7 months....so one longer then you proposed.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Rewards are just bad right now well overall anyway.

Had a really rough night last night with my new Atlas last night and had 4 crappy teams and 4 loses in a row. Only made 50-60k each loss, with premium and 30% bonus. Then had one crazy match where I didn't even think I did all that good and made 358k....no clue how. The problem is that on average, I am making 20-30% less. With premium and the 30% bonus making under 100k even on a really bad loss was rare for me for example and my average win usually exceeded 200k making me average around 180k per match on with premium and bonus going. I am not averaging like 140k and this is painful.

The problem is that the new rewards aren't consistent and are full of outliers. Losses now pay next to nothing where as randomly you get so crazy reward amounts like the 358k I got above. This also mean that I am sure some people whose playstyle happens to fit well into the new rewards structure are making bank but I think the vast majority of us are either seeing a 20-30% net loss with some losing 50% or more.

Anyway, I like the concept but the system needs to be rethought out.

Personally I think rewards amounts should primarily come from a pool based on what the entire team does, with only maybe 20-30% of your individual reward coming from individual actions.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

It took me since March to have a 66 mechs stable.....i dont see why this guy should get special treatment.

Thats 7 months....so one longer then you proposed.

You're right, he shouldn't get special treatment. Glad you agree that the payouts should be higher and more like they used to be.

[Mr Beefy]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:27 AM, said:

It took me since March to have a 66 mechs stable.....i dont see why this guy should get special treatment.

Thats 7 months....so one longer then you proposed.

So that is the real reason you are holding on to a very unproductive argument than..... because I suffered through a painful grind, everyone, all new players need to feel my pain? I think you are missing the bigger picture here, as many that feel the way you do about it. It is really simple..... either everyone see this for what it really is, including PGI, Russ and admit this grind is simply to much to really motivate any real team play, and to build new players that want to stay, that want to spend cash on this game, or they and you don't.

Darth, I have also spent just as much time as you in this game grinding, and I have around 15 mechs total right now. I bought into the 1/1/1/1 rule that they said they planned on. I am not bitter that they changed it to a 240 drop limit, but I did jump as soon as they said the rule would be in effect and made sure I had all each of every weight class and more importantly they are mastered. I can just imagine how CW will play out with guys taking Trial mechs in, or even worse mechs they buy without having them mastered.

I have made the choice due to the painful grind to sell off my mechs after picking the one in a given chassis that I liked the best after mastering it. So over the course of this grind, I have 45 mechs that I have grinded out and mastered. I have put just as much time in as many, and I would never feel the way you guys do about letting loose of the flood gates just a bit, even at 30% if it means a stronger, bigger player base to help make this game what I think we all want CW to end up being. There really is no room for I feel donked on this issue if they do it, because we have all already been donked by the grind, and yet we did stick around because we love BT.

If we want this game to do well, and last well into 2020, some things might need to be looked at and changed for the better of all players, new and veteran alike. If they increase it, what do we all have to loose?

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 09:43 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 24 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

You're right, he shouldn't get special treatment. Glad you agree that the payouts should be higher and more like they used to be.

I didn't say they should be like they used to be...you are putting words in my mouth. Why dont you ignore me already?

But if that's the case im fine with it...i make more money NOW per match then i did before. So it would be fine either way....

Mr Beefy, on 24 October 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

So that is the real reason you are holding on to a very unproductive argument than..... because I suffered through a painful grind, everyone, all new players need to feel my pain? I think you are missing the bigger picture here, as many that feel the way you do about it. It is really simple..... either everyone see this for what it really is, including PGI, Russ and admit this grind is simply to much to really motivate any real team play, and to build new players that want to stay, that want to spend cash on this game, or they and you don't.

Darth, I have also spent just as much time as you in this game grinding, and I have around 15 mechs total right now. I bought into the 1/1/1/1 rule that they said they planned on. I am not bitter that they changed it to a 240 drop limit, but I did jump as soon as they said the rule would be in effect and made sure I had all each of every weight class. I have made the choice given the pain grind to sell off my mechs after picking the one in a given chassis that I liked the best after mastering it. So over the course of this grind, I have 45 mechs that I have grinded out and mastered. I have put just as much time in as many, and I would never feel the way you guys do about letting loose of the flood gates just a bit, even at 30% if it means a stronger, bigger player base to help make this game what I think we all want CW to end up being. There really is no room for I feel donked on this issue if they do it, because we have all already been donked by the grind, and yet we did stick around because we love BT.

If we want this game to do well, and last well into 2020, some things might need to be looked at and changed for the better of all players, new and veteran alike. If they increase it, what do we all have to loose?

I dont want ANYONE to suffer....i dont think i ever said i suffered. I have a lot of time put in and a lot of mechs to show for it....whats wrong with that? People want mechs after 3 matches which is not going to happen.

Edited by DarthRevis, 24 October 2014 - 09:42 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Viktor Drake, on 24 October 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Personally I think rewards amounts should primarily come from a pool based on what the entire team does, with only maybe 20-30% of your individual reward coming from individual actions.

I would agree with this. In particular, stuff like 'damage done' and 'kill shot' (and 'solo kill') shouldn't even be rewards, since they encourage selfish, greedy play. The only thing that matters is that the other side dies, and your team wins; not who killed them.

Those rewards should be dropped and the money from them should be put into a new reward (I would suggest salvage bonus but we already have one called that) that is given to every team member equally. The Raven that NARCed a guy contributed to him dying just like the Catapult that dropped LRMs on him, so they should both be rewarded for it.

[Revis Volek]

Viktor Drake, on 24 October 2014 - 09:29 AM, said:

Rewards are just bad right now well overall anyway.

Had a really rough night last night with my new Atlas last night and had 4 crappy teams and 4 loses in a row. Only made 50-60k each loss, with premium and 30% bonus. Then had one crazy match where I didn't even think I did all that good and made 358k....no clue how. The problem is that on average, I am making 20-30% less. With premium and the 30% bonus making under 100k even on a really bad loss was rare for me for example and my average win usually exceeded 200k making me average around 180k per match on with premium and bonus going. I am not averaging like 140k and this is painful.

The problem is that the new rewards aren't consistent and are full of outliers. Losses now pay next to nothing where as randomly you get so crazy reward amounts like the 358k I got above. This also mean that I am sure some people whose playstyle happens to fit well into the new rewards structure are making bank but I think the vast majority of us are either seeing a 20-30% net loss with some losing 50% or more.

Anyway, I like the concept but the system needs to be rethought out.

Personally I think rewards amounts should primarily come from a pool based on what the entire team does, with only maybe 20-30% of your individual reward coming from individual actions.

This isnt a bad way to go about it either....

[SharpCookie]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:22 AM, said:

Its not so much what you did, its that your damage doesnt matter nearly as much as it used to. Your stats are rather similar outside DMG...

DMG doesnt have the weight it used to, kills still seem to hold some merit but just making sure you do the most DMG to targets before they drop seems to be a great way to Farm. I just alpha everything....even if i shut down and someone else gets the kill i get the Most DMG reward and sometimes i can get that 3 or 4 times in a match and no kills.

I have yet to have a match under 140k.....have not ran a single TAG/NARC since the change and i hate LURMS!. Also cant see all the rewards you get for each match on that tiny little window!

Damage doesn't have the same weight? The game resolves around team deathmatch regardless of game mode, and last time I checked damage was 100% necessary to destroy the enemy and win. Conquest or assault win payout is terrible unless you destroy over half the enemy team in the process. It makes no sense that damage should be rewarded less than before. They should have at the very least kept the same earning values, and added all the other "role warfare" bonuses. That would have a been a win:win for everyone.

[Mr Beefy]

DarthRevis, on 24 October 2014 - 09:38 AM, said:

I didn't say they should be like they used to be...you are putting words in my mouth. Why dont you ignore me already?

But if that's the case im fine with it...i make more money NOW per match then i did before. So it would be fine either way....




I dont want ANYONE to suffer....i dont think i ever said i suffered. I have a lot of time put in and a lot of mechs to show for it....whats wrong with that? People want mechs after 3 matches which is not going to happen.

Darth.... you tell one not to put words in your mouth... but than tell me that people shouldn't get a mech(s) after only three matches...... which is simply not what any of us have said, or implied. See the Irony?
There is nothing wrong with any of us who have made a choice playing this game, putting so much time into it if that is how we choose to spend our time to support a game we love and want to grow into what PGI pitched us. There is also nothing wrong when looking into the amount of time it takes for new and veteran players alike, to be honest about it, and reasonably say, the grind is very painful as it stands for both alike. The only thing that ease's it up a little, is guys like us have most of the stuff to play well, we have found out the mechs that we do well in, and have some of the core modules needed to enhance our game play even further.

If it took us 7 months to do this, and you I am guessing got to play back when earnings where way more than now, I wasn't so lucky, I have no problems with the flood gates being opened just a bit to see a new player coming into this game take only 4 months to get the same grinding it out. That is much more reasonable, and should be given serious consideration by PGI to put into effect. Even at that rate, the new players are gonna still have a hard time, it will be a grind either way, but one they might be willing to stick with and become the type of team players that really contribute to the team play in a given game mode and the real objectives of that game mode instead of trying to exploit the system for C-bills and XP. Some many problems will correct them selves out in game play.... it really would be win win for all.


Even as a player that has been around, with 45 mastered mechs, and only 15 kept, the grind is very painful, and I am not even close to having some of the mechs I would like to buy, let alone all the modules it will take to make them the most effective. They could increase the earnings back up 30%, and I believe I could play 5 days a week, at 4-8 hours a day for 6 months straight and I still would not be able to get every mech I want, all the modules for every one. It just wouldn't happen, even if I buy PT the entire time. There is no danger of the market crashing, the sky will not fall on us all if it happens.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 24 October 2014 - 10:00 AM.

[terrycloth]

Most matches for me have been roughly the same -- if I do well and get a few kills and a bunch of assists with good damage, it's around 100k-200k, just like before. If my team loses it'll be 25k-100k, instead of the old 40k-60k.

If I die instantly then I honestly don't know how much I'm getting because I'll quit and start a new match.

[Thorqemada]

My "Average C-Bills per Match" have increased while the volatility of the income has increased as well - but over all matches i get more atm.

Edited by Thorqemada, 24 October 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[CSHubert]

During closed beta PGI tested these scenarios with "fat days" and "starving days". My guess is they are starving us ! They know this is bad and they will enventually level it out again, but they want to squeese the cheese for now. This is NOT about role warfare (just see the rolling SOLO tournament). This is about getting people to try Premium time and Hero chassis. But even with that, its starvation. So when those players starts to leave (thats me) they will make a sort of roll back