724 replies to this topic

[KraftySOT]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I don't get why you're even arguing this--you've stated that you, as a player, won't buy more mechs and effectively have no user for anything that CBills can buy.

Yet you still play. As a result what injury is actually done by increasing payouts? Some people on here have played a single mech since CB and *continue to play.* So making this less grindy for new players finding their footing is good for everyone. I'm still not seeing an argument as to who or what this would harm other than some peoples' sadistic impulse that everyone should game the system to get a paltry quarter mil.

Yeah but im neurotic.

Ive been farming 3 times a day in my Raven, even though I hate it, because 400k cbills.

I cant stop myself. Im as trapped by my id as the rest of you. Im just different. Thats what ive been saying for three days.

Its perspective. Were all playing the SAME DAMN GAME. Yet theres a huge grind for you, and no grind for me.

The only way thats possible, is that the grind is simply a personal point of view, not a scientific fact.

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

You forget I was quoting you.

Then perhaps reading comprehension would do you good?

"[color=#959595]And no, its not better to increase the players access to content, when once they burn through that content, theres still nothing to do with it."[/color]

"The Player" is not equal to "Me"

Edited by KraftySOT, 27 October 2014 - 11:07 AM.

[Tynan]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

You would burn out.

Not me.

Youre the one having a content conniption fit. Youre upset because you cant get all the content you want. You know what youll do after you get all the content you want?

Play a few weeks and quit.

The lure is whats keeping you here. Maybe that next mech will be better...maybe itll be more fun if I collect them all. Thats the kind of person you are. Its evident.

Keeping you from getting all of it easily is the best thing PGI can do for you, and me, and the game as a whole.

That's a huge presumption that's not in evidence here and never has been in this game--people keep playing without buying new content all the damn time. Look at you. Look at many, many veterans. Hell, look at me.

Fact is, even the cheapest "collector" has to put in hundreds if not thousands of hours, not to mention drop a ton on mechbays, to play Mech Pokemon. Even if you increased earnings significantly.

That's a terrible, terrible excuse to use for making the barrier to entry so high. My point is that, for the game as a whole, it's doing more harm than good. I can't get anyone I know IRL to play this game, and it's not for lack of trying.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 10:57 AM, said:

This is what I don't get: What would it hurt for people to get modules a bit faster? Look at it this way: you still play and you don't need the CBills. So do it--we're in the same boat. There's literally nothing I care about buying with CBills right now. And I still play.

As a result, participation will *not be hurt* by increasing C-Bill payouts. New players won't be as frustrated and they'll be more competitive faster. That's a good thing! Because the cosmetics are behind a paywall, as are mechbays, PGI will still make money, and arguably make more, and we'll have a healthier playerbase.

How is this bad? Even if you just straight up doubled payouts, we're still talking months and months of hundreds of hours of play to run out of modules / mechs to buy, so why make the hurdle for new players to outfit a few mechs appropriately so punishing?

I bought 3, 3 million C-bill Modules last week. Two I bought in a span of two days. I hadn't bought a Module in a year and a half. I had been buying mechs and selling them. I'd likely have around 40 Meches if I had liked how they played. I don't I only need a small handful that get the job done. Now that I have them, I can Ge the modules they need to be tweaked to perfection before the real game starts.

Also Welfare State.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 27 October 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Burktross]

My grindbuilds are my HBK 4Ps. 8medlas 1 tag. Not too bad a compromise for 300k cbills a match.
Sucks for builds that can't afford to have anything less.

[KraftySOT]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

That's a huge presumption that's not in evidence here and never has been in this game--people keep playing without buying new content all the damn time. Look at you. Look at many, many veterans. Hell, look at me.

Fact is, even the cheapest "collector" has to put in hundreds if not thousands of hours, not to mention drop a ton on mechbays, to play Mech Pokemon. Even if you increased earnings significantly.

That's a terrible, terrible excuse to use for making the barrier to entry so high. My point is that, for the game as a whole, it's doing more harm than good. I can't get anyone I know IRL to play this game, and it's not for lack of trying.

170 hours. 310 million cbills. (180k a match avg)

Thats enough for everything but clan mechs. You can buy every single inner sphere mech and customize them (you will have to spend for mechbays though)

So thousands?

Youre insane.

In theory, you could, if you wanted, do 170 hours in three weeks. Not a year, like I did.

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

I bought 3, 3 million C-bill Modules last week. Two I bought in a span of two days. I hadn't bought a Module in a year and a half. I had been buying mechs and selling them. I'd likely have around 40 Meches if I had liked how they played. I don't I only need a small handful that get the job done. Now that I have them, I can Ge the modules they need to be tweaked to perfection before the real game starts.

Yeah buying and selling with my limited mechbays has been where the majority of my money went.

I have very little to show for it but the elite and master tags above them.

Of course with 80 mill I can buy them back at any point, and ive never sold an engine or a weapon (just SHS)

[Joseph Mallan]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

That's a huge presumption that's not in evidence here and never has been in this game--people keep playing without buying new content all the damn time. Look at you. Look at many, many veterans. Hell, look at me.

Fact is, even the cheapest "collector" has to put in hundreds if not thousands of hours, not to mention drop a ton on mechbays, to play Mech Pokemon. Even if you increased earnings significantly.

That's a terrible, terrible excuse to use for making the barrier to entry so high. My point is that, for the game as a whole, it's doing more harm than good. I can't get anyone I know IRL to play this game, and it's not for lack of trying.

I guess It s time to make another new no money spent account. to see how Horribad the grind is!

[KraftySOT]

No wait I take that back I sell off Streaks, because, theyre useless. And ammo, because after a while its pointless to have 30 tons of AC2 ammo.

[Tynan]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

I bought 3, 3 million C-bill Modules last week. Two I bought in a span of two days. I hadn't bought a Module in a year and a half. I had been buying mechs and selling them. I'd likely have around 40 Meches if I had liked how they played. I don't I only need a small handful that get the job done. Now that I have them, I can Ge the modules they need to be tweaked to perfection before the real game starts.

This doesn't address the point. Were you still actively playing before you needed to get those CBills? Because if you were, who even cares how much they cost. This is the whole problem. The only reason for the grind is so that people will actually play, but if they're going to play regardless, even with mountains of CBills, then all an extended grind does is drive off new players.

Look, you aren't going anywhere, neither am I, neither is Krafty. We, frankly, aren't important in the consideration of CBill earnings.

Potential new players are, and that's what C-Bill earnings should be built around.

[KraftySOT]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I guess It s time to make another new no money spent account. to see how Horribad the grind is!

Science!

Not like itll change their minds. Its their perspective. Thats never going to change. They believe theres a grind, so theres a grind. They want huge stables of mechs, so their grind is longer than ours.

But fact is, you can go from Trial to Direwolf in less than 100 matches.

[Joseph Mallan]

Burktross, on 27 October 2014 - 11:08 AM, said:

My grindbuilds are my HBK 4Ps. 8medlas 1 tag. Not too bad a compromise for 300k cbills a match.
Sucks for builds that can't afford to have anything less.

4 mediums AC20 4 SRM6...
I think its time to try a less productive build and see if I can make a non bonus comparison. My Cataphract should do nice.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

170 hours. 310 million cbills. (180k a match avg)

Thats enough for everything but clan mechs. You can buy every single inner sphere mech and customize them (you will have to spend for mechbays though)

Gonna need to see math on this. Just looking at the mechlab in-game, it's about $43.2 million for 4 Atlases (D, D-DC, RS, K).

That's just the base chassis, no upgrades or customization. For one chassis. And the -S isn't even available yet. And then you have aaaaaaaaaaallllll the other chassis.

Yeah, $310 million is waaaaaay lowballing.

[KraftySOT]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

This doesn't address the point. Were you still actively playing before you needed to get those CBills? Because if you were, who even cares how much they cost. This is the whole problem. The only reason for the grind is so that people will actually play, but if they're going to play regardless, even with mountains of CBills, then all an extended grind does is drive off new players.

Look, you aren't going anywhere, neither am I, neither is Krafty. We, frankly, aren't important in the consideration of CBill earnings.

Potential new players are, and that's what C-Bill earnings should be built around.

Totally disagree, new players should be overwelmed by the theory of the grind, and purchase things with real money, or they should learn to Freeload, like I did.

Cbills need to be balanced to the top end, not the bottom end. Everyone, supposedly, is headed to "the end game", so thats where the focus needs to be.

And frankly its secondary to all the game mechanics that need a fixin, and CW that needs realeasing.

[Tynan]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Science!

Not like itll change their minds. Its their perspective. Thats never going to change. They believe theres a grind, so theres a grind. They want huge stables of mechs, so their grind is longer than ours.

But fact is, you can go from Trial to Direwolf in less than 100 matches.

Yeah, you can and I can and Joe can because we already know how to play.

Like I said *I* don't have a grind--I've got everything I care about. New players learning the ropes don't, and their earnings are going to be rock bottom and it's going to drive them off. If you want a tiny and shrinking playerbase that drives new players toward other games, I don't really know what to tell you.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

This doesn't address the point. Were you still actively playing before you needed to get those CBills? Because if you were, who even cares how much they cost. This is the whole problem. The only reason for the grind is so that people will actually play, but if they're going to play regardless, even with mountains of CBills, then all an extended grind does is drive off new players.

Look, you aren't going anywhere, neither am I, neither is Krafty. We, frankly, aren't important in the consideration of CBill earnings.

Potential new players are, and that's what C-Bill earnings should be built around.

I actively have less than a million c-bill in my account. I grind for what I want, buy it use it, get rid of it, use it and some grind to buy the next Want.

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Gonna need to see math on this. Just looking at the mechlab in-game, it's about $43.2 million for 4 Atlases (D, D-DC, RS, K).

That's just the base chassis, no upgrades or customization. For one chassis. And the -S isn't even available yet. And then you have aaaaaaaaaaallllll the other chassis.

Yeah, $310 million is waaaaaay lowballing.

Sales. And no things get pretty cheap out of the assaults. 5-8 million a pop.

But sales...everything has been 50% off at some point or another. Perhaps its low balling the entire cadre, but assuming something is pretty much ALWAYS on sale, its really close to the total cost of all inner sphere stock mechs.

[Tynan]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Totally disagree, new players should be overwelmed by the theory of the grind, and purchase things with real money, or they should learn to Freeload, like I did.

Cbills need to be balanced to the top end, not the bottom end. Everyone, supposedly, is headed to "the end game", so thats where the focus needs to be.

And frankly its secondary to all the game mechanics that need a fixin, and CW that needs realeasing.

The reason I don't agree with this is that no veteran *needs* cbills for anything--we've all got either a mountain of money or a stable of competitive mechs. Or both. Telling new players they need to play for forty hours not just to learn the ropes but to have a mech that isn't an inherent disadvantage keeps people away from the game.

[KraftySOT]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, you can and I can and Joe can because we already know how to play.

Like I said *I* don't have a grind--I've got everything I care about. New players learning the ropes don't, and their earnings are going to be rock bottom and it's going to drive them off. If you want a tiny and shrinking playerbase that drives new players toward other games, I don't really know what to tell you.

Then let em be driven off. The player base isnt shrinking, and theres still plenty of people who were vets, who stopped playing, to win back.

New players just need tutorials, not a crutch. They dont need MOAR CBILLS, they need to be taught how to earn them.

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

The reason I don't agree with this is that no veteran *needs* cbills for anything--we've all got either a mountain of money or a stable of competitive mechs. Or both. Telling new players they need to play for forty hours not just to learn the ropes but to have a mech that isn't an inherent disadvantage keeps people away from the game.

Yeah id say thats because the grind to the end game is actually to short, not the other way around, making it shorter just makes cbills irrelevant for most people pretty quickly.

I feel bad that ive earned as much as I have. I feel like im getting one over on PGI. Especially now with the huge payouts for farming in lights.

Ive done surpassed this games "end game content" and never spent anything. (I did throw in to the kickstarter tho, im not a total bum)

Did it pretty fast too imho. MOAR CBILLS is just bad news.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Sales. And no things get pretty cheap out of the assaults. 5-8 million a pop.

But sales...everything has been 50% off at some point or another. Perhaps its low balling the entire cadre, but assuming something is pretty much ALWAYS on sale, its really close to the total cost of all inner sphere stock mechs.

Nope, math still doesn't work.

$5mil for a medium (more like $8mil+ after after-market upgrades) is $24mil per chassis (if you only buy 3 variants). There are 10 medium chassis in the game (discounting clan mediums which would skew it even harder), so that's ~$240 million c-bills for not even all the mediums.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tynan, on 27 October 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yeah, you can and I can and Joe can because we already know how to play.

Like I said *I* don't have a grind--I've got everything I care about. New players learning the ropes don't, and their earnings are going to be rock bottom and it's going to drive them off. If you want a tiny and shrinking playerbase that drives new players toward other games, I don't really know what to tell you.

I didn't know how to play back in CB and I had to pay out the nose for repairs to my (F)Atlas cause... death at 4 FpS is more than a catchy slogan). Nope even when I couldn't put 40 damage on an enemy, Never complained, just knew I had to learn to play. Sometimes it is an insult sometimes it is the truth. Every time the game changes we need to learn to play it a new way. Instead people come on the forum and complain cause it isn't what they want it to be. How can a game be a thinking mans game if everything is easy to get?

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Sales. And no things get pretty cheap out of the assaults. 5-8 million a pop.

But sales...everything has been 50% off at some point or another. Perhaps its low balling the entire cadre, but assuming something is pretty much ALWAYS on sale, its really close to the total cost of all inner sphere stock mechs.

Its how I got my D-DC the second time. Yup I sold it to get a Battlemaster-1G... Sold it to get my D-DC back!

[SpeedingBus]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

Then let em be driven off. The player base isnt shrinking, and theres still plenty of people who were vets, who stopped playing, to win back.

New players just need tutorials, not a crutch. They dont need MOAR CBILLS, they need to be taught how to earn them.

But the new players have to open there wallets for a game they barely played to make it more enjoyable at all makes sense... if you live in a different reality. You are the biggest troll I have ever seen.