724 replies to this topic

[Kodyn]

To get some perspective, what I'm gathering is that most of the folks whose earnings have either increased or stayed the same are already skilled, veteran players, or just insane people like me.(I say insane because I've been playing for give-or-take 4 months and have over 3k matches played, I know that's not the norm.)

It's everyone else that we need to be worried about, because they help keep the game going too. I for one am more apt to spend money on this game if I know it's doing well, has longevity, and enough players to keep queue times decent. I'm sure there's at least a good chunk of others who feel similarly. I don't want to buy a hero because I have to, but because I'm at the point in the game where I want to invest some, and also see a nice extra CBill return.

The learning curve for MWO is already nearly on EVE-scale of things(though arguably, EVE may be even a bit more newb-friendly, oddly enough), but making it too hard to grind out new mechs for new players means they won't want to spend money on as many heroes or packages, etc, because they still haven't gotten the CBills to try more than a mech or two, and don't even know what they like, or if they want to stick with the game.

Not everyone buys new mechs simply to "catch them all", some do it because the PTS isn't up often, and they want to try new mechs and see what they enjoy before investing too heavily. I myself would likely be sitting on an enormous pile of CBills from those 3k+ matches if I didn't have a need to experiment with so many mechs before settling on a few I liked. Many mechs play very differently from each other, and you wouldn't realize that without getting to try them, and in some cases, elite them to see a real difference.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Astrocanis, on 27 October 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

I like, in essence, what the Rewards 2.0 system does. Just not in application.

I realized earlier that Conquest has become the best mode to grind on, because that $37,500 cap point payout can be 25% of my earnings for a match, easily.

I don't particularly like Conquest, but now I feel like that's what I should be playing exclusively.

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

You might be able to 'have' them for that price, they will be warmed-over crap though.

You're talking another $150-180 million for DHS conversion, plus whatever other charges.

And God help you if you want to actually upgrade 120 engines.

Not all of them have SHS. All those expensive ones, already have XLs, Endo, DHS, etc. So write that off.

Also you cant pilot 120 mechs at at time. So you dont need to upgrade 120 engines, you need to take the 380 you got on your banshee, and put it on your atlas, and take your XL you got from you shadowhawk and put it on your raven. Etc etc.

The ACTUAL cost, is far lower than youre now estimating, after upgrades.

And also lets say upgrading to a mech you want takes 10 matches, even if you already own the stuff, it takes 10 matches to really settle in and decide on the build you want.

So thats 1,200 matches, 10 matches a piece, in unique mechs. FFS thats over a year of casual play.

FOR FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Spend 100 dollars, now you have 120 mechs, customized, a ton of mech bays, camo, youre good.

Another 100 and youre a clanner.

For two years entertainment?

Astrocanis, on 27 October 2014 - 12:16 PM, said:

Krafty, you don't seem like a bad guy. But what you're saying is, truly, "Play my way or suffer."

The rewards system is punishing for those who are on the lower levels, whether new players or simply not uber. That punishment will result in reduced gaming "resources" because nobody wants to the the level 5 wolf in Ellwyn forest, the turret in Assault, the little league batter facing Nolan Ryan.

So, as those who have lower earning power, regardless of the reason, leave, your rewards will start to suffer as well. Because you can't just hit and run / snipe or brawl without targets who are either out of position or of said lower skill level.

Be very careful what you wish for. I think Russ is a very smart guy. I think he'll do something to shore this up. Sooner is better.

I like, in essence, what the Rewards 2.0 system does. Just not in application.

Nope.
Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"
Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"


Thats what im saying.

I dont always play that way, im not suffering. I suffer when I play that way. Were all in the same boat here.

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I realized earlier that Conquest has become the best mode to grind on, because that $37,500 cap point payout can be 25% of my earnings for a match, easily.

I don't particularly like Conquest, but now I feel like that's what I should be playing exclusively.

Holy god then stop sucking,

2k for each scout.

A brawling kill not in an assault is 32k.

Capturing, lance, formation, flanking. Youre doing it wrong. Yes, sucking is supposed to pay badly. Are you really only making 100k on wins?!

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Holy god then stop sucking,

I was going to reply to the mech chat until I got to this.

You are an ass.

[Mr Beefy]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:18 PM, said:

I realized earlier that Conquest has become the best mode to grind on, because that $37,500 cap point payout can be 25% of my earnings for a match, easily.

I don't particularly like Conquest, but now I feel like that's what I should be playing exclusively.

And you hit it on the head.... which is back to the core problem here. This is backed up with what I have seen in over 1000+ matches. The guys that cried about choice.... the really loud typed their concerns, are most likely the very same that said Conquest didn't pay out as much before, and neither did Assault modes, so they wanted their choice back!!! Not only did many of them rage drop out of a match they didn't like after the MM change the first time... I now find many of them playing the Conquest mode like a death ball and still making this a Kill em all match. We have a core problem here, and much of it comes back to the player that lust earnings so badly they will do anything to get them. This = bad team play 80% of the matches played.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 27 October 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Astrocanis]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Capturing, lance, formation, flanking. Youre doing it wrong. Yes, sucking is supposed to pay badly. Are you really only making 100k on wins?!

Not sure that's especially fair. I just scored 5 kills, 2 assists, 8 component destruction, 589 damage done, 3 spotting assists, 2 savior kills, 2 flanks and received 137,651 and 1571 XP. Not sure how to not suck less than that. I'm not sure that there isn't a bug somewhere that's messing with either certain players, certain classes of mech (or variants) or maps.

And that was on a Thunderbolt I just started leveling.

Edited by Astrocanis, 27 October 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Alex..

I dont know what else to do other than suggest we Sync drop and I show you how to play.

We need Mentoring, not more cbills. The whole point of putting noobs in with high ELOs was so that they could learn the game.

Ill be the first to admit that doesnt work at all. All they do is get stomped. They arent learning anything. They leave the match and never spectate, they dont listen, they dont even have the enemy team/all chat enabled.

We need to be able to sit on you guys shoulders and tell you what youre doing wrong. I know no one likes a backseat driver, but seriously if youre playing Conquest to grind, and youre getting 100k...youre terribad.

Its not because you suck as a person, im sure youre a great human being. Youre passionate, well spoken, all of you. But for the love of god Id have to overheat myself to make as little as you guys are claiming.

At least be realistic. If youre upset about 120k a match average, ok, we can work with that. I think thats plenty, and PGI probably does too, but if you expect more we can talk about htat.

But the impression is you guys are making 20-50k a match, and 100k in wins.

And just frankly that means youre bad at the game and need some help. You need a wing man. Not a cbill increase.

[Xetelian]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

Not all of them have SHS. All those expensive ones, already have XLs, Endo, DHS, etc. So write that off.

Also you cant pilot 120 mechs at at time. So you dont need to upgrade 120 engines, you need to take the 380 you got on your banshee, and put it on your atlas, and take your XL you got from you shadowhawk and put it on your raven. Etc etc.

The ACTUAL cost, is far lower than youre now estimating, after upgrades.

And also lets say upgrading to a mech you want takes 10 matches, even if you already own the stuff, it takes 10 matches to really settle in and decide on the build you want.

So thats 1,200 matches, 10 matches a piece, in unique mechs. FFS thats over a year of casual play.

Thats what im saying.

I dont always play that way, im not suffering. I suffer when I play that way. Were all in the same boat here.



Holy god then stop sucking,

2k for each scout.

A brawling kill not in an assault is 32k.

Capturing, lance, formation, flanking. Youre doing it wrong. Yes, sucking is supposed to pay badly. Are you really only making 100k on wins?!

Sucking is what new players do best and if you don't give them C-bills they wont be good player with a fully kitted out mech for a much longer period.

There are many ways to play, and FARMing is not really a way to play its not an RPG its not supposed to be FARMwarrior.

Edited by Xetelian, 27 October 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I was going to reply to the mech chat until I got to this.

You are an ass.

No im not.

I sucked too.

Everyone who does things sucks at it. Some people suck at it their whole lives. They arent bad people. They just dont take the time and iniative to learn something.

Im a HORRIBLE chess player. My friend who is an igorant piece of trash beats me on a persistent basis. Its ok to suck. But dont get mad at the people telling you, that you suck. Im not just passing by insulting you.

I want you to be spacerich.

Not spacepoor. I wouldnt be here posting this much if I just thought "HA HA YOU SUCK". No. I want you to get better. I want you to be spacerich. I want you to see a 400k match and think damn, I did that, thats awesome. Im gonna go buy some Endo steel.

Xetelian, on 27 October 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

Sucking is what new players do best and if you don't give them C-bills they wont be good players with a fully kitted out mech for a much longer period.

There are many ways to play, and FARMing is not really a way to play its not an RPG its not supposed to be FARMwarrior.

Yeah, and if they dont learn they continue to suck.

We need teachers.

Not a crutch. How will that make them BETTER? Theyll just get better loadouts faster and still be horrible players. See half the people in Trial Direwolves. Theyre better than a mastered Wolvie, but theyre still bad compared to most people in a Battlemaster ffs.

We need to teach them to be better.

Not just throw them a trophy for showing up.

That teaches them NOTHING. Thats the biggest source of problems in the first world today. Being bad, and that being ok.

No, its not ok. Get BETTER. Have some pride in accomplishments. Do things because theyre difficult. Work HARDER because its difficult.

Nothing worth doing is easy. Stop trying to turn this into easymode online. We already have LRMs for that.

Edited by KraftySOT, 27 October 2014 - 12:30 PM.

[Astrocanis]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

But the impression is you guys are making 20-50k a match, and 100k in wins.

I just did get 137,651 for a match. With 5 kills, 2 assists, etc.

I'm sure I'm bad (that is neither hyperbolic or sarcastic), but I'm not sure how I could be better on a Skirmish map while getting hit and run and flanking bonuses.

I am becoming more convinced that this is caused by a bug. And that the player base is ripping each other to shreds with shrieks of "you're bad" when they aren't necessarily.

[edit] One more thing. Calling people "bad" or "suck" doesn't help your case. People get lost in the pejoratives and can't hear your message. Find better words. Or be "bad" at your argument as well.

Edited by Astrocanis, 27 October 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

No im not.

I sucked too.

Everyone who does things sucks at it. Some people suck at it their whole lives. They arent bad people. They just dont take the time and iniative to learn something.

Im a HORRIBLE chess player. My friend who is an igorant piece of trash beats me on a persistent basis. Its ok to suck. But dont get mad at the people telling you, that you suck. Im not just passing by insulting you.

I want you to be spacerich.

Not spacepoor. I wouldnt be here posting this much if I just thought "HA HA YOU SUCK". No. I want you to get better. I want you to be spacerich. I want you to see a 400k match and think damn, I did that, thats awesome. Im gonna go buy some Endo steel.




Yeah, and if they dont learn they continue to suck.

We need teachers.

Not a crutch. How will that make them BETTER? Theyll just get better loadouts faster and still be horrible players. See half the people in Trial Direwolves. Theyre better than a mastered Wolvie, but theyre still bad compared to most people in a Battlemaster ffs.

We need to teach them to be better.

Not just throw them a trophy for showing up.

That teaches them NOTHING. Thats the biggest source of problems in the first world today. Being bad, and that being ok.

No, its not ok. Get BETTER. Have some pride in accomplishments. Do things because theyre difficult. Work HARDER because its difficult.

Nothing worth doing is easy. Stop trying to turn this into easymode online. We already have LRMs for that.

How you have defined "rich" and your methods to achieve this is not real team play, nor is it productive to the topic. Its FARMING at all cost, and this player base doesn't need a mentor to show what some of us believe is a very small new player flow coming in to begin with, how to play like a tool to get ahead by exploiting a system.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 27 October 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

But the impression is you guys are making 20-50k a match, and 100k in wins.

Yes, this is what multiple people have been saying this entire time.

I just finished a match with my side getting rolled and netted 32k.

Meanwhile my highest paying match since the reward changes was a 194k win. That's with a kill, 7 assist and 515 damage in a CN9-AH with an AC20 and LRM10. Which happened once. 80k to 120k for a win is more like it.

(e: Reward -AH, so more like 140-150k before c-bill bonus)

Not everybody is pulling in 370k wins, so the 30k losses absolutely tank our income.

That is what people have been saying from the beginning.

Edited by Alexander MacTaggart, 27 October 2014 - 12:36 PM.

[KraftySOT]

Not everyone plays games to be pat on the back and given a trophy for showing up.

This is supposedly a "Battletech Game" the "thinking mans shooter".

Failure, is a part of the equation. You have to be allowed to fail. There has to be a chance you can take 80k worth of consumables and make 20k from the match.

There has to be winners and losers. Otherwise theres no use being here. There are plenty of games that stroke you ego and hand out gold stars even when you do badly.

EVEN IF that would make PGI more financially successful (it wont) it would still be a detriment to the franchise, and just another case of catering to the lowest common denominator. It makes me physically ill.

Mr Beefy, on 27 October 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

How you have defined "rich" and your methods to achieve this is not real team play, nor is it productive to the topic. Its FARMING at all cost, and this player base doesn't need a mentor to show what some of us believe is a very small new player flow coming in to begin with, how to play like a tool to get ahead by exploiting a system.

Of course its teamplay. Farming and teamplayer after Rewards 2.0 is the same thing.

The old system was geared around killstealing.

You know how I used to make money? Get in Wubshee with the 60% assault queue, wait 3 minutes, start up match, wait 2 minutes, walk to front, kill steal. Profit.

Now im narcing for you.

Edited by KraftySOT, 27 October 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Welp, took him off ignore to give him another chance and he's back at it immediately after.

'Physically ill" my ass.

[Mr Beefy]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yes, this is what multiple people have been saying this entire time.

I just finished a match with my side getting rolled and netted 32k.

Meanwhile my highest paying match since the reward changes was a 194k win. That's with a kill, 7 assist and 515 damage in a CN9-AH with an AC20 and LRM10. Which happened once. 80k to 120k for a win is more like it.

Not everybody is pulling in 370k wins, so the 30k losses absolutely tank our income.

That is what people have been saying from the beginning.

You mean people are being cry babies and just claiming earnings are too low and the grind is too long? Long time listener, first time caller,.... gee I never made the connection, your a life saver Mr. Obvious!

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

Yes, this is what multiple people have been saying this entire time.

I just finished a match with my side getting rolled and netted 32k.

Meanwhile my highest paying match since the reward changes was a 194k win. That's with a kill, 7 assist and 515 damage in a CN9-AH with an AC20 and LRM10. Which happened once. 80k to 120k for a win is more like it.

Not everybody is pulling in 370k wins, so the 30k losses absolutely tank our income.

That is what people have been saying from the beginning.

Yeah you got rolled, dont get rolled?

Tell everyone in every match, stick with the lance = get paid = live longer.

Grab your team by the horns. Works for me.

[Mr Beefy]

KraftySOT, on 27 October 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Not everyone plays games to be pat on the back and given a trophy for showing up.

This is supposedly a "Battletech Game" the "thinking mans shooter".

Failure, is a part of the equation. You have to be allowed to fail. There has to be a chance you can take 80k worth of consumables and make 20k from the match.

There has to be winners and losers. Otherwise theres no use being here. There are plenty of games that stroke you ego and hand out gold stars even when you do badly.

EVEN IF that would make PGI more financially successful (it wont) it would still be a detriment to the franchise, and just another case of catering to the lowest common denominator. It makes me physically ill.



Of course its teamplay. Farming and teamplayer after Rewards 2.0 is the same thing.

The old system was geared around killstealing.

You know how I used to make money? Get in Wubshee with the 60% assault queue, wait 3 minutes, start up match, wait 2 minutes, walk to front, kill steal. Profit.

Now im narcing for you.

So by your logic.....Kill stealing is solved over night... and we have no more of it going on? Didn't they just change the assist pay out because of the issue of kill stealing has increased in game big time???? OMG... do you even play this game?

[KraftySOT]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 27 October 2014 - 12:35 PM, said:

Welp, took him off ignore to give him another chance and he's back at it immediately after.

'Physically ill" my ass.

I could be doing any number of things rather than being here. Its the physical illness part keeping me here. Im just blown away at you guys suckage, whining, and entitlement.

Youre why the world is headed towards a cess pit. Not just a whiney mechwarrior who wants MOAR CBILLs. Youre also problem out there in the real world too.

This is just a byproduct of a world that rewards being bad, because you showed up.

[Astrocanis]

Ok. It's time for moderators to shut this thread, which is too bad.

Krafty, I'm sorry you're not well. But your comportment in this thread is pretty bad. You are trying to make the case that EVERYONE on this thread who disagrees with you is a whiny entitlement baby. I don't believe myself to be one.

I suggested once before that you change your posting style to make your points. You don't seem to be either capable of it, or willing to do it. Kind of like the people you are raging against as being whiny entitlement babies.

Sometimes a good place to gain perspective is in a mirror.

[KraftySOT]

Mr Beefy, on 27 October 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

So by your logic.....Kill stealing is solved over night... and we have no more of it going on? Didn't they just change the assist pay out because of the issue of kill stealing has increased in game big time???? OMG... do you even play this game?

Other than in tournaments. Its definitely down.

Now the way to get paid for brawling is to, Kill Blow, Most Damage, Brawling, Solo skill + 8-10 flanking shots from "protection", finished off with an Alpha. 32-40k per kill that way.

Its actually advantageous to teamkill for -10k, if they are damaging your target, or running off without sticking with the lance.

When I play meds, ill splat you if you run off. Youre costing me cbills by doing that. Stick with me or die. Im really nice and accomodating and ill cover you, so long as you play remotely in the interest of me and the team.

If not. -10k isnt an incentive not to blast you for being a ****.

Astrocanis, on 27 October 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

Ok. It's time for moderators to shut this thread, which is too bad.

Krafty, I'm sorry you're not well. But your comportment in this thread is pretty bad. You are trying to make the case that EVERYONE on this thread who disagrees with you is a whiny entitlement baby. I don't believe myself to be one.

I suggested once before that you change your posting style to make your points. You don't seem to be either capable of it, or willing to do it. Kind of like the people you are raging against as being whiny entitlement babies.

Sometimes a good place to gain perspective is in a mirror.

Nope just all of you but Vassago. Him, I have a huge amount of respect for.

And really theres only 3 of you. Mr beefy, yourself and Alex. Going on and on and on and on and on and on and on.
Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

"But I want more cbills"

Heres how you get more cbills.

"I dont want to do that"

Well then you wont get more cbills

Edited by KraftySOT, 27 October 2014 - 12:42 PM.