332 replies to this topic

[NocturnalBeast]

Barkem Squirrel, on 31 October 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

New Hero 'Mech's – Our next Hero mechs release will be a pair of mechs representing a famous husband and wife in two iconic old school mechs.

Release Date: Nov 18th Patch.


So I though, wow, the Kells. His wife in a wolverine, then wait a second he ran the archer. We can only wish on that.

Next though, so who else ran in other mechs that do not have hero mechs like the shadow hawks and locust. Grayson and Lori Carlyle

Shadow Hawk + Locust has been the general consensus on this thread. Again, it could be the Snords, but we already have Rhonda's Highlander.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Not sure if NOV or OCT feed back is the best place, so you get both, I'll let the mods sort it out.

After finally reviewing the complete Quirk list, and I found far fewer issues than I was expecting, however there are a number of inconsistencies, where it appears that PGI is attempting to hit the moving target that is the Metagame. In these cases it seems like a weapon quirk was chosen based on a user preference (or even exploiting and existing temporary mathematical advantage) rather than a traditional lore based loadout.

This is problematic for several reasons. First, the meta game will (should) continue change and evolve, attempting to chase that target with quirks will ultimately result in chassis that always yesterdays news. Secondly, new mech purchases are all stock mechs, and the largest purchaser of stock mechs are new players. Not only do these new mech not have immediate access to advanced technology, but if there default loadouts are not benefiting immediately from quirks it puts and undue hardship on the players who purchased them.

Example: Catapult K2, slated for a minor quirk to ballistic weapon cooldown which does not even apply to their equipped machine guns, as well as minor quirks to Medium lasers. This is probably great if you were involved in last ballistic and medium laser meta, but fast forward 6 months when IS ballistics are burst fire, and PPCs project speed has been restored to 2000m/s, and it’s misaligned quirks are worthless.

Note: The list below does not include any heroes, I did not want to second guess PGI’s quirks on in-house mechs. Also not listed. every mech that, in my opinion, has reasonable quirks.

AS7-K -- Recommendation: Replace PPC quirks with ERLL.
(Banshee, Awesome, and Battlemaster are all actual PPC chassis, and there are no other ERLL assault mechs)

BNC-3M -- Replace LPL quirks with PPC. (Stalker is assault with LPL bonus)
(A mech designed to carry PPCs not gaining any PPC bonuses, this quickly becomes theme; along with the pairing advanced technology quirks on old chassis.)

BLR-1D --
BLR-1G –
BLR-3M --
BLR-3S --
Having 4 nearly identical Battlemaster variants is a problem in itself. Additionally it competes directly with Victor, Awesome, Stalker, and Highlander. I would approach this using a durability and speed quirks, with a mix of ML and Missile buffs. I definitely would not wander in LL (Stalker/Awesome) or Gauss (Victor/Highlander) territory.

BJ-1DC -- dramatically lower AC bonuses, give generic AC bonus and generic energy bonus.
(I love the concept and have been using it since release but a 40% AC5 bonus is broken as hell).
BJ-1X -- remove LPL quirks, add ML quirks, energy cooling, and/or Flamer quirks
(no mech has flamer quirks, while the Wolverine 7K is already a stock LPL medium mech)

CTF-2X -- replace AC20 quirks with LL quirks
(I can appreciate there are no Heavy AC20 chassis, there are also no Heavy LL chassis, and this mech could really take advantage with those high mount points)

CPLT-2K – replace Ballistic quirks with PPC quirks
(iconic PPC heavy mech, with PPC housing built right into the model)

CN9-A – Replace SRM4 quirks with AC10, ML, and/or LRM10 quirks
CN9-AH -- Replace SRM4 quirks with LRM10 quirks
CN9-D – Replace SRM4 quirks with generic missile quirks.
(here are a list of Chassis where SRMs would be appropriate: Kintaro, Wolverine, Trebuchet, Hunchback, Shadowhawk, Quickdraw. Here is a list of chassis where they are not appropriate: Centurion)

CDA-3M – replace LL quirks with UAC5 and/or generic ballistic quirks
(the first two I can kind of understand, but the 3M’s defining characteristic (besides ECM) is an autocanon)

COM-1B – replace MPL quirks with LL and generic energy quirks
(Commando is one of few light chassis that actually carries a stock LL, none of which get LL quirks)

DRG-1C –
DRG-1N –
DRG-5N –
(This is a chassis that has long been considered sub-par, a full review of the chassis and hardpoints is a far better option than Ballistic musical chairs, and shoehorning in ERLL. PGI giving multiple ballistic slots for every large bore AC was design decision that has bitten them a couple of times, as it simply encourages those variants to take more smaller ACs, while chassis with a single smaller AC end up taking the single largest AC available.)

FS9-K – replace SL quirks with LL
FS9-S – replace ERLL with SL or Flamer quirks
(Just to clarify, the FS9-K carries a LL, the FS9-S does not)

GRF-1N – remove SRM quirks, add PPC and LRM10 quirks
GRF-3M -- remove SRM quirks, add ERPPC and LRM20 quirks
(refer to Centurion notes, there are enough SRM and SRM boats in the medium weight class, no need to wedge excellent, traditional LRM platforms in there as well)

HGN-733 – remove LL quirks
HGN-733P – remove LL quirks

HBK-4J – replace ERLL quirks with ML quirks

KTO-18 – replace LRM5 quirks with SRM6 quirks
KTO-19 – replace SRM4 quirks with higher generic missile quirks
(Someone had confused the Kintaro with the Griffin and Centurion, the 18 should be a brutal skirmisher, while the 19 a more generalist supporting 3 different missile types)

LCT-1V – replace ERLL quirk with large MG quirks

ON1-K – replace UAC5 quirks with ML quirks and general AC quirks
ON1-M – replace SRM6 quirks with LB10X quirks and general missile quirks
ON1-V – replace LRM5 and AC5 quirks with generic AC, SRM, LRM quirks
ON1-VA –replace SRM6 and AC20 with large SRM4 quirks and general missile quirks
(there is a certain irony in pushing SRM4s quirks on so many chassis except for the mechs that actually carry SRM4)

QKD-4G – replace LL quirks with good general Energy and Missile quirks
QKD-5K – replace PPC quirks with ML quirks
(The Quickdraw has the same issue as Battlemaster, with 4 nearly identical variants. Differentiating them can be difficult, but should not be solved by stealing roles from other chassis)

SDR-5V – replace ERLL quirks with MG quirks

[ExAstris]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 31 October 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

A lot of good quirk feedback.

I'm not familiar enough with all those mechs to give such a fully detailed review, but I would like to comment on a few that I do know pretty well.

AS7-K -- this mech is suffering from the identity crisis of mixing quirk goals between loadouts that actually get used (energy heat gen), a faux meta-role (ppc quirks), and its default loadout (gauss). I would suggest in cases like this that fully generic quirks be preferenced over weapon specific ones. A pair of general energy quirks and a generic ballistic one would be more useful to alot more configurations. Also, this is the perfect mech to get an AMS quirk if you're really trying to make it unique to the other Atlai.

Additionally, shouldn't its quirks be based on a 20% standard instead of 15%, and shouldn't it have a 4th weapon quirk on top of gauss, ppc, and general energy? It is tier 4 isn't it?


The CPLT-C4 is suffering a similar problem. Its getting LRM10 specific quirks. Which is neither its cannon loadout nor one of its optimal loadouts. Then it has 2 general energy quirks for its 2 center torso mounted energy weapons. Only half of half of those quirks are are substantially beneficial. At least make the missile quirks fully general so that the superior 4x15 and 2lrm/2srm builds are getting buffs that do more than merely compensate for the accompanying LRM damage nerf. And preferable turn a third quirk to the missiles instead of wasting two of them on energy slots you're likely to have a tag in anyways.
(This case of course assumes this mech really is tier 5. If it is, then these quirks aren't going to help it enough.)


The CDA-3C will in no way find redemption from buffing its single energy mount for the use of a single weapon. Why aren't there machine gun buffs here to make its 4x ballistic mounts useful? Especially with half that buff going to any other ballistic weapon you might put in, which is currently the only way to run this mech.



Still, we're moving in the right direction (making objectively terrible mechs more usable), I'm not expecting every move to be perfect, just noticing a few that will surely need more work in the future.

Edited by ExAstris, 31 October 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Rizzelbizzeg, on 30 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

neat. The time between HPG and factory was much shorter than factory to swamp, no? That's all I'm saying, dawg.

You sure about that?

HPG: December 17th, 2013
Mech Factory: September 23rd, 2014
Swamp: November 18th, 2014

Not sure how 9 months between HPG and Mech Factory is shorter than less than 2 months between Mech Factory and Swamp but whatever...

[Gas Guzzler]

Sweet love all the changes coming!! IS laser buffs...awesome

[Malekhai]

Do the BAP changes also apply to the Clan Active Probe?

Edited by Malekhai, 31 October 2014 - 05:04 PM.

[Kreisel]

Do the BAP changes also effect the range at which they will detect shutdown mechs.

Changes look interesting, I'll reserve judgement about the lasers until I see how it actually plays in game, but in concept I rather like what I see.

I'm have some slight reservations about the rewards 2.0 bug fixes, with loss rewards already being so low I'm concerned how troublesome it could be to income if rewards are currently triggering when they shouldn't. I do agree that the being able to tag your own direct fire damage for income is cheese and needs to go... but I would rather like to see it replaced by a 'Focus Fire' Reward that works much in the way Tag does now, rewarding you C-bills for shooting the same player as your team or lance mates in order to bring them down faster. Something like during an while engaged you receive bonus C-bills based on damage your teammates do to the last foe you damaged in that engagement.

[KursedVixen]

So your increaseing the PPC velocity now does that bring it back to it's orginal velocity?

[Frytrixa]

Any sneak peak of the swamp map yet?!

[Kain Demos]

KursedVixen, on 31 October 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

So your increaseing the PPC velocity now does that bring it back to it's orginal velocity?

Not even close.

[Karenai]

BAP change would make it double the range of ECM. Does anyone ever do the math behind changes? You buff a 1.5t piece of equipment, that every mech can carry, to counter a piece of equipment only select mechs can carry in specific parts of their mech.

Going from 150m to 360m is a 5.76 fold buff. Yes, not double but 5.76 times more ground is covered by a 360m radius. It would mean that one BAP could cover 4 times more ground than an ECM.

Add to that a nerf to LRM damage, because DireWhales and Timberwolves need to be countered by DireWhales and Timberwolves alone, not pesky IS LRM boats. It shows how usless ECM is going to be if you nerf LRM in the state they are in. I almost bought the wave 2 pack for the ECM clan mech, you guys did not disappoint.

[Mamonar]

Love the small and pulse laser normalisation. I wanted these exact same changes for over a year now.

[C E Dwyer]

Nice changes, though I think you'll end up nerfing lrms some more, and decreasing the Bap sphere, to around 250-300 at some point.

ok you have got me wondering the new Heroes, shadow and wolverine ?

URBANMECH'S !!!!!

pulse laser improvements

and a new map

Great job

[Kjudoon]

Karenai, on 01 November 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

BAP change would make it double the range of ECM. Does anyone ever do the math behind changes? You buff a 1.5t piece of equipment, that every mech can carry, to counter a piece of equipment only select mechs can carry in specific parts of their mech.

Going from 150m to 360m is a 5.76 fold buff. Yes, not double but 5.76 times more ground is covered by a 360m radius. It would mean that one BAP could cover 4 times more ground than an ECM.

Add to that a nerf to LRM damage, because DireWhales and Timberwolves need to be countered by DireWhales and Timberwolves alone, not pesky IS LRM boats. It shows how usless ECM is going to be if you nerf LRM in the state they are in. I almost bought the wave 2 pack for the ECM clan mech, you guys did not disappoint.

An OP buff to counter an OP piece of equipment.

[Breg Eisenfaust]

Hai,


nice would be if team damage will be shown and the player get a penalty for it.

Like:

Team Damage x-100 xp per Point
Componet Destruktion x- 20.000 xp or CB
Team Kill x- 200.000 XP or CB

But zero XP at all is the limit, so a player cant get into negative

This will be a realy update!

Blue on blue is one of the most bad things.

Edited by Breg Ironfist, 01 November 2014 - 06:21 AM.

[DocBach]

Kjudoon, on 01 November 2014 - 04:42 AM, said:

An OP buff to counter an OP piece of equipment.

It's another band aid on top of an old bandaid on top of a gangrenous wound. BAP with this long of range pretty much negates ECM at the ranges where you typically stumble across an enemy. It'll be pretty useful now, but its still a binary system that now pretty much kills the utility of ECM. I don't want to see ECM useless or removed from the game, and BAP kind of will do that now.

Russ has said that when CW is done they're going to try to go back and redo some of the systems like ECM, which I hope they do -- there's a lot of stuff they could do with ECM and Beagle interacting with each other beyond just being off and on switches.

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Now with all the quirks hitting the Inner Sphere Mechs (especially the Weapon related ones), will that mean that every Clan Mech that has what ever weapons on its stock variants will get the same type of quirk? The reason I ask is this; since the Clans didnt suffer from losing their Technology over the years (and even improving on some), which equates to a Technilogical Superiority in comparison to the IS's. And having seen Sean Lang/Phil demonstrate the LBX quirk I would expect the Clan LBX to do the same. This continued attempt at finding a way to Balance the Inner Sphere Mechs and Equipment would be like trying to Balance German Tanks of WW2 with the M1A1 Abrahm's. The only reason the Clans were defeated on Tuykaid was thru subterfuge and coordinated efforts by the Inner Sphere. If the Clans had fought the same way that the Inner Sphere did (No Batchal, No Zellbrigen, no 1v1's) they would have reached Terra in less than a year. The Ideals behind why the Clans fight the way they do are admirable but as for feasible and practical from a Military stand point is Laughable. Tsun Tzu is spinning in his grave so fast over it that scientist's have discovered thats actually what is the cause behind everything in the Universe spinning, from the Big Bang on.

[DocBach]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 31 October 2014 - 02:35 PM, said:

the meta game will (should) continue change and evolve, attempting to chase that target with quirks will ultimately result in chassis that always yesterdays news. Secondly, new mech purchases are all stock mechs, and the largest purchaser of stock mechs are new players. Not only do these new mech not have immediate access to advanced technology, but if there default loadouts are not benefiting immediately from quirks it puts and undue hardship on the players who purchased them.

Agreed completely

[Bluttrunken]

Clan Pulse Weapons look OP.

[Kjudoon]

DocBach, on 01 November 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

It's another band aid on top of an old bandaid on top of a gangrenous wound. BAP with this long of range pretty much negates ECM at the ranges where you typically stumble across an enemy. It'll be pretty useful now, but its still a binary system that now pretty much kills the utility of ECM. I don't want to see ECM useless or removed from the game, and BAP kind of will do that now.

Russ has said that when CW is done they're going to try to go back and redo some of the systems like ECM, which I hope they do -- there's a lot of stuff they could do with ECM and Beagle interacting with each other beyond just being off and on switches.

I consider this a temporary fix till ECM is reworked from the ground up and either includes DF weapons in what it urinates on or is far less influential.