373 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

QuantumButler, on 13 November 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

BT lore has zero baring on an online skill based sim -lite shooter, it's not a true BT game and never will be, and besides Arty isn't anything even remotely like the actual thing in BT lore, at least stuff like gauss and srms and AC40s work more or less how they actually would in BT if you had a custom built combat unit equipping them, whereas the red smoke we have is basically a magic spell that deals 20d20 of AOE damage.

Only to those who fail their saving throw.

[QuantumButler]

Joseph Mallan, on 13 November 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Only to those who fail their saving throw.

Which has a DC of 30.

[Joseph Mallan]

QuantumButler, on 13 November 2014 - 07:24 AM, said:

Which has a DC of 30.

Yeah but with my Perks I only seem to need a 3 in my Atlas.

[LordBraxton]

AT the end of the day, arty is essentially a hard to aim explosive weapon that weighs nothing and takes up no crits. This is stupid. Damage potential should require weight\space. Consumables are horrible and will always be horrible, unless they build them into the construction rules.

[Gauvan]

InspectorG, on 13 November 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

And also:
"Can you name ANY reasons they would be valuable for things OTHER than causing damage?"

Anyone answer that yet?

Suppression and area denial. Neither is a current game effect of the fireball spell and I don’t think either is appropriate for a walking tank game.

[Bigbacon]

I just think the mechanic to use them needs to change. the point and push is just too simple, you odn't have to think or put yourself in harms way and most of the time it is used as a last hurrah from mechs who are about to die. Like a free whack.

LordBraxton, on 13 November 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

AT the end of the day, arty is essentially a hard to aim explosive weapon that weighs nothing and takes up no crits. This is stupid. Damage potential should require weight\space. Consumables are horrible and will always be horrible, unless they build them into the construction rules.

How is it hard to aim? it is spread damage but aiming it takes no skill or chance at all.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

They got one a while ago.

LordBraxton, on 13 November 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

AT the end of the day, arty is essentially a hard to aim explosive weapon that weighs nothing and takes up no crits. This is stupid. Damage potential should require weight\space. Consumables are horrible and will always be horrible, unless they build them into the construction rules.

At the end of the day anything that doesnt take up crits and weighs nothing is stupid imo

[R Razor]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 November 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

They got one a while ago.



At the end of the day anything that doesnt take up crits and weighs nothing is stupid imo

So you don't use modules?

[Voivode]

QuantumButler, on 12 November 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

And I love all the ignorant people who don't understand the arguments for nerfing them being made.

It's not that they exist it's that:

1: They have a [low but not zero] chance to just instantly blow up your head even if it is at full health: IE: 1hit kill totally based on Random Numbers, in an ostensibly skill based game]
2: They have INFINITE RANGE, you can drop them anywhere as long as you have LOS no matter how far away
3: There is no way to defend against them at all unless you happen to see the smoke and are fast enough to move in time, which is hard in pug queues when they often GET DROPPED BEHIND YOU and no warning can possibly come in time. [maybe give Betty a "WARNING: INCOMING ARTILLERY/AIRSTRIKE" message?]
4: Low skill ceiling, they are massively powerful for how easy they are to use.
5: No tonnage or heat requirement at all for such a powerful [albiet one shot] weapon system? At least limit it to mechs with Command Consoles or make it require TAG designation for target lock or something, make that piece of trash [command console] useful.

These are the main points.

1) I could agree with eliminating head shots, but it happens so rarely is REALLY affecting the game enough to get this upset?
2) Artillery IRL is called using grid coordinates. You don't have to be "in range" to use it. Artillery has ranges measured in miles, not meters.
3) Moving is your defense. Not standing in a tight knot is your defense. Learn to do these things, the game is static enough as is, we don't need to nerf one of the only things that makes people move.
4) You point at a spot and hit a button. They take EXACTLY as much skill as everything else in the game.
5) No tonnage/crit space at the cost of one time use. That...seems fair.

I know a lot of people hate it when the hear "learn to play" but in this case it is the correct response. This is a Battletech based combat simulation and artillery/aerospace were significant parts of the Battletech universe. Combined arms enhances the game. You need to learn how to deal with it.

[Josef Koba]

grievoussmaug, on 05 November 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:

TL;DR: Nerf arty and air strikes to 15-20 damage per shot and significantly increase cost per module. these are designed to soften up targets, not kill them.

so. arty and air strikes are obviously quite overpowered. they can kill a fully armored mech, and, when your team drops 2 consecutively, can kill your whole team. this consumable shouldnt have that kind of power. i was in a match where there was 11 of us left and 3 enemies left. they dropped 3 artys consecutively while we were grouped up and killed all 11 of us. these consumables need to be nerfed to either 15 points, 20 MAX per round and tripled in price. people shouldnt have the ability to kill a whole team with 3 of these modules nor should they need to rely on them to win. its a support item. its supposed to soften up mechs, not kill them. now i can understand if a mech is stripped of armor and gets destroyed by one, but when im in a fully armored atlas and get hit in the head by 2 of the shots and i get killed, that is unnacceptable.

I'm surprised this is still a topic we're discussing. I could have sworn they reduced the damage caused, as well as the chance of hitting a mech's cockpit. I've been one-shotted in a fully healthy mech by arty precisely zero times, and I've never killed a healthy mech with arty. That said, they don't call arty the "King of the Battlefield" for nothing.

Jokes aside, OP states that the enemy had three mechs left, whereas his team had 11. This suggests to me that the remaining mechs had been damaged somewhat and perhaps even significantly so. Perhaps even exposed internals. Additionally, and has been mentioned, his eleven teammates sat there through three, count 'em THREE, full cycles of arty, wait, arty and presumably didn't move, otherwise they wouldn't have all died. I can't really blame the arty's OPness on poor tactics and decision making. Arty is dangerous primarily when you stand there thinking you can take it. Most of the time you come out of a strike in still pretty good working order, so lots of guys just take it. Damage is cumulative, so... I'm honestly surprised that more people don't wait until the end of the match to use their arty/airstrikes - you frequently see them going off like fireworks in the opening stages of a match. I'm sure you can get lots of kills using it against damaged mechs with exposed internals. Artillery is a nuisance, sure, but it's supposed to be. I don't see a huge issue with it. If one is going to have issues with arty it seems that they might also have issues with the information supremacy presented by the prevalence of UAVs in today's game, not to mention being NARC'd every two seconds. Personally none of that bothers me; adds flavor and keeps me on my toes.

Edit: Arty does NOT have infinite range. For most of the maps it may as well be considered infinite, but on a map as big as Alpine you can see that it does have a range. We had two teams on opposite sides of the map on Alpine and both teams attempted to hit the other with arty and in both cases (several in fact) the arty fell well short of the intended targets.

Edited by Josef Koba, 13 November 2014 - 09:57 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Voivode, on 13 November 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

1) I could agree with eliminating head shots, but it happens so rarely is REALLY affecting the game enough to get this upset?
2) Artillery IRL is called using grid coordinates. You don't have to be "in range" to use it. Artillery has ranges measured in miles, not meters.
3) Moving is your defense. Not standing in a tight knot is your defense. Learn to do these things, the game is static enough as is, we don't need to nerf one of the only things that makes people move.
4) You point at a spot and hit a button. They take EXACTLY as much skill as everything else in the game.
5) No tonnage/crit space at the cost of one time use. That...seems fair.

I know a lot of people hate it when the hear "learn to play" but in this case it is the correct response. This is a Battletech based combat simulation and artillery/aerospace were significant parts of the Battletech universe. Combined arms enhances the game. You need to learn how to deal with it.

In the last 4 days I have been headshot by arty 3 times.

You also need to paint your targets with TAG to get off map fire support in BT, not so here.

It is often impossible to avoid and "l2p" is not a valid response.

Airstrikes and artillery are currently just a 1 shot magic spell that deals random damage in an AOE.

But you're determined to pretend there is nothing wrong with this mechanic many players hate, so what ever.

Edited by QuantumButler, 13 November 2014 - 09:54 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

R Razor, on 13 November 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

So you don't use modules?

I just started using more than Radar/Data Improvements and Zoom. those were my only 3 for the better part of 2 years now.
...
Are there more?

[WarHippy]

SharpCookie, on 12 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

They need to be changed. They are too easy to use, do too much damage, and cost too little. I see these strikes used in every single match. I see them used by players in a 1v1 brawl trying to get in more damage.

I know they have a role in the game, but it needs more cost, risk, and skill to use. Point and click from as far as you like. That's more easy mode than LRMs...

Lasers need to be changed. They are too easy to use, do too much damage, and cost too little. I see lasers used in every single match. I see them used by players in a 1v1 brawl trying to get in more damage.

I know they have a role in the game, but it needs more cost, risk, and skill to use. Point and click from almost as far as you like. That's more easy mode than LRMs...

[Joseph Mallan]

thank you Hippy!

[WarHippy]

QuantumButler, on 13 November 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

In the last 4 days I have been headshot by arty 3 times.

I just have a really hard time believing you. I have never been headshot by one. If you are actually being truthful I am either absurdly lucky(checking lottery tickets now), or you are insanely unlucky(might I suggest wrapping yourself in bubble wrap for protection!).

[Almond Brown]

As always there are 2 camps.

The I don't/won't use it and don't like it. Take it out.

The I use it, it only costs 40k and I like it. Leave it in.

What we need from Russ is the numbers (over the last 3 months) of Head Shot kills from Arty/Air versus Head Shot kills from regular weapons based fire. I guess many would be very surprised how much whine is being generated over such small (Arty/Air based HS kills) numbers...

Edited by Almond Brown, 13 November 2014 - 10:15 AM.

[Mcgral18]

WarHippy, on 13 November 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

I just have a really hard time believing you. I have never been headshot by one. If you are actually being truthful I am either absurdly lucky(checking lottery tickets now), or you are insanely unlucky(might I suggest wrapping yourself in bubble wrap for protection!).

Some mechs are worse than others.

Stalkers and Jenners are headshot frequently, while mechs with covered cockpits nearly never.

All can be if your torso is pitched to the sky. Some simply cannot save or protect themselves, and are at the RNG God's mercy.

[Joseph Mallan]

QuantumButler, on 13 November 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

In the last 4 days I have been headshot by arty 3 times.

In the last 2 years I have been head shot...
nothin plus nuthin...
Carry the nuthin...
Add in nuthin from Group Que...

[3rdworld]

Almond Brown, on 13 November 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

As always there are 2 camps.

The I don't/won't use it and don't like it. Take it out.

The I use it, it only costs 40k and I like it. Leave it in.

What we need from Russ is the numbers (over the last 3 months) of Head Shot kills from Arty/Air versus Head Shot kills from regular weapons based fire. I guess many would be very surprised how much whine is being generated over such small (Arty/Air based HS kills) numbers...

What about it is a lame mechanic for a module to do damage or have a significant effect on a match?

[Voivode]

QuantumButler, on 13 November 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

In the last 4 days I have been headshot by arty 3 times.

You also need to paint your targets with TAG to get off map fire support in BT, not so here.

It is often impossible to avoid and "l2p" is not a valid response.

Airstrikes and artillery are currently just a 1 shot magic spell that deals random damage in an AOE.

But you're determined to pretend there is nothing wrong with this mechanic many players hate, so what ever.

1) How? Do you not have armor on you cockpit?
2) In BT arty is not limited to one use per mech. I'm cool with using tag to call it if it can be called over and over and over like a true off map asset.
3) A lot of people are finding it quite possible to avoid, erego, the problem is your tactics and not the game.
4) All the indirect fire in the game (arty/air strikes and LRM) have significant delays before striking. The direct fire weapons, even the laughably slow PPC bolts, are virtually undodgeable. You are complaining about something that gives you a big red cloud of smoke to warn you and then takes several seconds to arrive. How are you dying to that so much you've come to the forums to QQ about it?