373 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Masterrix, on 11 November 2014 - 05:02 AM, said:

arty-whiners


how many arty "kills" do we see ingame ?

1 in 3 matches ?

so there are 72 mechs involved in 3 matches (24x3), and one of these will be killed by arty

OP WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE OP WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE OP WHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINE

well, either u are fast enough to escape (light, mediums,Heavies,Assaults) or u are armored enough to survive (heavys, assaults)

damaging/killing u with arty is as legal as damaging/killing u with anything else

FT4U. I rarely am hit by arty in my stock engine Atlases. So only when I am unaware of the smoke do i get hit.

[WarHippy]

QuantumButler, on 10 November 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

Then you only play in the pug queue, if you're in the group queue you can regularly expect to see up to 12 smokes dropped on your team.

I see about the same amount of strikes in the solo queue as I do in the group queue, and it is rarely if ever 12 times. 3-5 is more in line with what I see.

Ace Selin, on 11 November 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

Instead of having mechs fighting mechs this game is about guiding artillery and plane strikes onto target - Mech Warrior Online should be about killing and dying to mechs, not arty/airstrikes.

Battletech and MechWarrior have always been about mixed arms combat. While the MechWarrior games have put more focus on the mechs(nothing wrong with that) they are not the sole form of combat just the primary weapon of war.

QuantumButler, on 11 November 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

You're obviously playing some crazy bizzarro version of the game because what you claim to see has very little baring on what most of us are seeing.

Define most because I have the same experience Joseph is having. In fact I would say most people are having little issue getting killed by strikes. It seems to be a rather vocal minority that are having an issue, and most of what they say is just silly.

[Joseph Mallan]

QuantumButler, on 11 November 2014 - 04:56 AM, said:

You're obviously playing some crazy bizzarro version of the game because what you claim to see has very little baring on what most of us are seeing.

Then why can't you top tier Pro players not just stop using it? I used Arty once, The team didn't like it so No Arty for Joe. In the team Que, I was hit by 3 Arty strikes and walked out did some damage and died... Much the same as if I ran into 4-6 Enemy Mechs. What kills me isn't important, What I have done before I die is. So if i kill 1-2 and assist 3-7 and die to anything. Good game, If I die with >100 damage 0 kills 1 assist the game sucked for me no matter how I died.

See a pattern there. Win/lose Live/Die what I care about is my performance and how much help I provided my team.

How I lived is more important that how I died in game.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 11 November 2014 - 05:53 AM.

[R Razor]

Pjwned, on 11 November 2014 - 12:35 AM, said:

If you don't have an argument then you don't need to post anything.

I don't need to "have an argument" as I'm not the one whining for the removal of a part of the game. It works fine as it is, maybe fine tune it by only allowing mechs with a command console to call it in, but the damage is fine. Those of you that don't bother keeping an eye on your surroundings because you're too busy button clicking and tunnel vision staring at whatever you're shooting at deserve to get hammered.

[Telmasa]

Mystere, on 10 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

Either you are being extremely "creative", or you did not understand what WarHippy said:
On second thought, lol on that "creative" part.

I understood him to be completely wrong with the point he was trying to make. Pretty simple.

WarHippy, on 10 November 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

By disrupting the flow it actually enhances the gameplay by making it more dynamic. If everyone is just running around in a giant death ball dropping some strikes can help reset the momentum in the game. It makes for a more organic match, and that is something many want.
Knowing when and where to place them for maximum effect is a skill. As is being aware of your own surroundings so as to avoid being a target, and knowing it is time to move when you are a target. As for the exaggeration about only lights being "lucky" enough to avoid them when all mechs are capable all I can say is nice False Dilemma fallacy.
The smoke is blocking your view? I guess it shouldn't be too hard to know it is time to move if it is so in your face that it is blinding you. Is the distraction of it hitting you really an issue when engaging an enemy face to face? I mean if you are face to face wouldn't he be getting hit as well, or do you mean face to face as in you both see each other while trading blows at 600m? Either way I'm not seeing the issue as it doesn't really interfere that much with aim, and does nothing to stop you from moving in whatever direction you choose.
I was talking about strikes as an individual player not as a group, but yes the team can use up to 12 per match for a potential 0-4200 damage. The fact that it can miss means inaccuracy is relevant. You may not agree, but you don't get to just hand wave the inconvenient parts of the big picture.
I only use modules on a few of my mechs as they are expensive for the small bonus they provide. I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one.

- "More dynamic gameplay" doesn't occur in a team-based competitive mech warfare game by giving everybody a "summon damage here!" magic card option.
There are plenty other ways to deal with "death-balling" tactics, without resorting to a gimmick.
You know, things like pilot skill and situational awareness that you lot keep bringing up.

- The amount of 'skill' necessary to place an air strike is the same amount of skill necessary to hit a mech with an ER Large Laser *one* time, and not even for the full burn duration.
In other words, not worth considering.

- Assuming that because of your own personal bias, that all mechs must and always be completely able to dodge strikes entirely with relative ease, is the fallacy at work there.

- By the time that smoke pops up, you have less than three seconds to move. Subtract another second or two thanks to latency. Subtract another second, at the minimum, to accelerate/decelerate away from the target area.
For all intents and purposes, that strike is nigh instantaneous.
The only way you're going to escape it, is if it was not aimed at you in the first place (including if it was simply poorly aimed).

- The amount of screen-shake induced by 6 - 10 nearby explosions, as well as the outrageous amount of damage it brings, is naturally going to be a "distraction" when busy engaging enemy opponents head-on.

- The age of Counterstrike has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made that hackers and cheaters destroyed the wide-spread popularity of that game as an MMO.

- The rest of your post was nothing but more strawman arguments. I have no response to you if you're going to purposefully misrepresent what I've said, like the "hand-waving" bit when I clearly said "potential damage" in regards to strikes.

- You are clearly mistaken if you think I will be satisfied with "agreeing to disagree" about how strikes currently exist. Why would I have posted in this thread at ALL if that were the case? Please.

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Yeah cause I have died 2 whole times from Air/Arty since its been put into play. It's so Overpowered and so easy to use I hardly ever die to it.

Oh, aren't you special. CLEARLY, everybody else playing MWO should step it up to your level, becasue everybody that gets hit by strikes is clearly an incompetent imbecile who can't figure out how to drive their mech.

Happy? Or was that dripping with too much sarcasm?

Joseph Mallan, on 11 November 2014 - 04:46 AM, said:

So my not using it and still thinking its perfectly fine with its use and power doesn't mean a thing? I like it as is all while it IS raining on me. Most the games I paraphrased in my above posts were reactions to weapons fire, not Arty. My normal Arty reactions are, "Smoke! gotta boogie... Missed me" or "Awww, I didn't see that one coming...70% armor left, K. ALPHA, ALPHA, cool down ALPHA ALPHA cool down"
And 8-11 missing cause communication is so helpful getting out of a blast area.

Or how about..."arty strike x 12 on your mech, leaving you with multiple cored sections - then, enemy alpha on you, bang, you're dead before you could do more than 200 damage."

Doesn't even have to be 12 - what if 2 strikes, just by sheer chance, happen to drop two 35-damage shells directly on your CT - or better yet, your rear CT?

Hard to do the "alpha alpha cooldown" refrain if your mech is dead, pal.

Also, communication takes time. By the time someone sees the smoke that you didn't, mentions it on TS, with the extra second-or-two of latency, the strike is already going to be hitting. Something I've told the guys in my unit before, communication about strikes does little more than to warn you to "brace yourself" for the sudden damage.

R Razor, on 11 November 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

I don't need to "have an argument" as I'm not the one whining for the removal of a part of the game. It works fine as it is, maybe fine tune it by only allowing mechs with a command console to call it in, but the damage is fine. Those of you that don't bother keeping an eye on your surroundings because you're too busy button clicking and tunnel vision staring at whatever you're shooting at deserve to get hammered.

As has been stressed at length, a potential damage of 210-350 damage with zero in-match gameplay drawbacks, is not "fine". It's a cheesey pay-to-win gimmick, and that's putting it very nicely.

4-5 seconds in a mech is next to nothing. That's 1 cooldown on an average large laser.

And really, sue people for shooting at enemy mechs - you know, playing Mech Warrior. Oh, sure, they clearly deserve to be hammered by magically summoned gimp-able amounts of near-instantaneous damage for doing that, because it's dynamic and fun and everybody would obviously love that!

There's nothing reasonable about what you're saying.

Edited by Telmasa, 11 November 2014 - 04:38 PM.

[Mystere]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

As has been stressed at length, a potential damage of 210-350 damage with zero in-match gameplay drawbacks, is not "fine". It's a cheesey pay-to-win gimmick, and that's putting it very nicely.

You are stating an opinion, to which you are entitled to.

But, many others have a totally different opinion than yours.

But one thing cannot be disputed, soldiers shout "Artillery!" on the battlefield for a very good reason, and there are people here who like to keep it that way.

Edited by Mystere, 11 November 2014 - 04:43 PM.

[R Razor]

Funny you call it pay to win but have no problems paying real money to buy mechs that give you an obvious advantage in the game. You have absolutely no argument, you're just whining to be whining. Obviously you aren't observant enough to avoid arty or air strikes so you call to have them removed.

[Mcgral18]

People seem to be forgetting something about TT artillery when they bring it up.

How is that 20 Long Tom damage distributed? In 5 damage chunks. Nearly impossible to be one shot, aside from TACs of course.

[Telmasa]

Mystere, on 11 November 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

You are stating an opinion, to which you are entitled to.

But, many others have a totally different opinion than yours.

But one thing cannot be disputed, soldiers shout "Artillery!" on the battlefield for a very good reason, and there are people here who like to keep it that way.

Great. Go play an infantry shooter game where you can use care packages and Death Stars for all I care. Keep it OUT of this game, because that kind of thing has no place in a competitive team mech-combat game.


Not to mention, Soldiers yell "ARTILLERY" because there's actually time to react when incoming artillery rounds are heard/seen/otherwise detected. It's not just "ARTILLER-" bang, I'm dead.

That isn't a very fun experience, either, if you ask those soldiers (a few of who, I have asked about that, and defintiely did not think it was 'fun').

R Razor, on 11 November 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

Funny you call it pay to win but have no problems paying real money to buy mechs that give you an obvious advantage in the game. You have absolutely no argument, you're just whining to be whining. Obviously you aren't observant enough to avoid arty or air strikes so you call to have them removed.

There is no mech you can buy that just magically has any combat advantages over other mechs, and definitely doesn't include my founder's Catapult, the *only* mech I've paid for with real cash.

Be reasonable, or don't post at all. And especially don't make a hypocrite out of yourself by saying things like "you have absolutely no argument", without bringing anything up about logic or reasoning. You clearly haven't bothered to read a single thing already posted in this thread.

Edited by Telmasa, 11 November 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Walluh]

"Outrageous damage."

..Artillery doesn't do that much damage? The only thing that's annoying about it is the hilarious screen shake.

[R Razor]

I've read plenty, and it all boils down to whiners whining because they are too focused on launching their LRM's or staring down an enemy and dumping fire into them.

The only folks that should quit posting are the whiners that can't handle arty or air........you know, the ones that want to sit back and launch LRM's with impunity.........need to hit the local drug store and pick up some of that medicine the lady folk use.

Edited by R Razor, 11 November 2014 - 06:17 PM.

[WarHippy]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Oh, aren't you special. CLEARLY, everybody else playing MWO should step it up to your level, becasue everybody that gets hit by strikes is clearly an incompetent imbecile who can't figure out how to drive their mech.

If the shoe fits. The rest of your tripe isn't even worth discussing at this point.

[Xetelian]

Mickey Knoxx, on 05 November 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

while we were grouped

while we were grouped

while we were grouped

Hated to repeat that 3 times, but like those arties you might not have seen the problem the first time.

How else are we supposed to earn cbills. Leg humping all day because roll CB.

[Telmasa]

Walluh, on 11 November 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

"Outrageous damage."

..Artillery doesn't do that much damage? The only thing that's annoying about it is the hilarious screen shake.

*facepalm*

Potential 210-350 damage per strike. 2520 - 4200 damage if all 12 people bring strikes.

Yeah. Not much damage at all. Only enough to wipe out 2-3 groups of 12-man drops.

R Razor, on 11 November 2014 - 06:09 PM, said:

I've read plenty, and it all boils down to whiners whining because they are too focused on launching their LRM's or staring down an enemy and dumping fire into them.

The only folks that should quit posting are the whiners that can't handle arty or air........you know, the ones that want to sit back and launch LRM's with impunity.........need to hit the local drug store and pick up some of that medicine the lady folk use.

WarHippy, on 11 November 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

If the shoe fits. The rest of your tripe isn't even worth discussing at this point.

All I've read is that both of you have given up on having any kind of reasonable argument and have switched to petty insults & strawman tactics.

Guess I mind have to see if the forums has an ignore feature if this keeps up.

[Mystere]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Great. Go play an infantry shooter game where you can use care packages and Death Stars for all I care. Keep it OUT of this game, because that kind of thing has no place in a competitive team mech-combat game.

I think you should take your own suggestion. I'm here to stay whether you like it or not.

[Mystere]

Ace Selin, on 11 November 2014 - 02:56 AM, said:

Instead of having mechs fighting mechs this game is about guiding artillery and plane strikes onto target - Mech Warrior Online should be about killing and dying to mechs, not arty/airstrikes.

A single artillery shell has a potential damage of 350 during an entire match, or 4200 for an entire team.

On the other hand, a single Clan Small Pulse Laser has a potential damage of 1800, or 21600 for an entire team if everyone was only armed with one of these. That's 5 times the potential damage of artillery.

As such, from a damage standpoint, how can the game be more about "guiding artillery and plane strikes onto target" and not "killing and dying to mechs"? And don't strikes also kill mechs?

You Don't like that? Ok, this time around let's look from a time perspective.

An artillery strike takes around 10 seconds total from launching the red smoke up to the last explosion. That means it only takes up a total of 2 minutes of the 15 minute match, if each and every member of the team brought one.

And so again, and this time from a time perspective, how can the game be more about "guiding artillery and plane strikes onto target" and not "killing and dying to mechs"? And again, don't strikes also kill mechs?

Kain Thul, on 10 November 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

I've been hit with as many as 4 in a match in my Dire Wolf. I hate when you're brawling with someone too and they get one off right before they die because they know they've lost and get in some last cheap shots.

It's called a "suicide bomber". Have you been hiding under a rock for over a decade?

Joseph Mallan, on 10 November 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Good and Fun for me may not be good and fun for you.

Or put in another way. I may greatly enjoy killing you over and over again. But, you might not enjoy being killed by me over and over again.

[WarHippy]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 08:21 PM, said:

All I've read is that both of you have given up on having any kind of reasonable argument and have switched to petty insults & strawman tactics.

I have given up on having a reasonable discussion as you are an unreasonable person that commits more fallacies than he accuses others of. You are factually wrong on numerous points, yet you keep rambling on about your asinine opinion on things as if they are facts. At this point you are simply unworthy of real discussion. So feel free to put me on ignore if that makes you feel better.

[Delas Ting Usee]

Uh, no to anymore nerfs please.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 11 November 2014 - 09:28 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Telmasa, on 11 November 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Great. Go play an infantry shooter game where you can use care packages and Death Stars for all I care. Keep it OUT of this game, because that kind of thing has no place in a competitive team mech-combat game.

So let me see if I got this right. Artillery has no place in a game that uses BattleMechs... Battlefield Mecha

Quote

A single 'Mech can easily destroy a city block. A BattleMech's only true equal is another 'Mech—artillery, aircraft, and tanks are disadvantaged against them without BattleMech support or a strong advantage in numbers.

Sorry what was it that you were saying??

Quote

Oh, aren't you special. CLEARLY, everybody else playing MWO should step it up to your level, becasue everybody that gets hit by strikes is clearly an incompetent imbecile who can't figure out how to drive their mech.

Happy? Or was that dripping with too much sarcasm?

Yes everyone should step it up to my level of play in a stock engine Atlas outrunning Artillery.

And No, you have no idea how much sarcasm is required to be considered dripping to me. Try harder.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 12 November 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[3rdworld]

Mystere, on 11 November 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

You are stating an opinion, to which you are entitled to.

But, many others have a totally different opinion than yours.

But one thing cannot be disputed, soldiers shout "Artillery!" on the battlefield for a very good reason, and there are people here who like to keep it that way.

I like real life reasoning to keep something in a game that in no way mimics real life and the mechanic in question is nothing like its real life implementation.

IE: What foot soldiers in the modern day care about is irrelevant to a mech based lobby shooter.