170 replies to this topic

[Alienized]

Gallowglas, on 20 November 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there's a pretty good balance between brawls and ranged right now. We've run both in competitive play and done just fine. Is it scary when an SRM, AC/20, or pulse boat manages to get into knife-fighting range? Yes, of course. However, it should be. It's exactly the same sort of "well, darn" moment you get when you find yourself pinned down by gauss, LRM's and laser vomit.

The thing is, when you consider risk versus reward, the ranged game carries a WHOLE lot less risk. I think the only time the perceived imbalance crops up is when the enemy team does a giant, rolling death ball and denies the ranged game through a coordinated push. However, how the heck would you ever be able to maintain the viability of short-range weapons and not carry that risk?

truestory. and the srm spamming clanmechs are out in force most of time.
my qkd cant do anything against them but stay in the team and focus it down... then .... well... brawlers die easy

its all a matter of TEAM.....

[Dago Red]

Kjudoon, on 20 November 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

I thought all the did was get drunk, put on a silly hat and trusted their luck... to borrow a phrase from Lord Blackadder.

To be fair that is in fact plan B when playing smart doesn't get the job done. But that's usually when intentionally playing the distraction so that the rest of the team can charge and get their cheap shot's in.

It's like what good lights do except they're usually alive afterwords.

[Ultimax]

I see some people who I know often complain about short TTK also here stating there can never be too much brawling and I wonder how they rectify these two conflicting desires.

[KraftySOT]

Ultimatum X, on 20 November 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I see some people who I know often complain about short TTK also here stating there can never be too much brawling and I wonder how they rectify these two conflicting desires.

Lower damage or more armor.

Though ideally you just fix the whole pin point damage thing. Make the cross hair floating, have some time for the weapons to converge properly, etc...

Either you lower damage, increase armor, or decrease accuracy. That brings up the TTK.

[Kjudoon]

KraftySOT, on 20 November 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Lower damage or more armor.

Though ideally you just fix the whole pin point damage thing. Make the cross hair floating, have some time for the weapons to converge properly, etc...

Either you lower damage, increase armor, or decrease accuracy. That brings up the TTK.

Lower damage or more armor is a band aid on leprosy. It covers up the lesions, but does nothing for the cause. Pinpoint damage and convergeance is the disease that needs Thalidomide.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 November 2014 - 09:18 AM.

[Nightmare1]

LordKnightFandragon, on 19 November 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

Maps are to small for anything but brawling. Game is to pointless for the game to devolve into anything but brawling every time. Objectives? none.....reason not to deathball together? none.....sooo..what do we get? Brawling, duh...lol.

Then to boot, brawling makes it easier to deliever those 80pt lolpha strikes, soooo.......its pretty clear to me.

I disagree. Tourmaline, Alpine, Caustic, and Canyons are great sniping maps. Forest Colony, River City, and Crimson Strait also have several zones where snipers or LRM boats can really ruin your day.

For me, it's nice to see brawling making a comeback. For too long, my HBKs were obsolete because they couldn't deal with the longer-ranged Mechs.

If folks said that there is too much brawling, it is most likely a reactionary, knee-jerk reaction to the recent quirks by the mid/long-range skirmishing/sniping, and LRM boating crowd. They're freaked out that us brawlers can get close enough to do some damage now!

Also, all the old maps will be getting a rework. Let's wait and see what happens with that before all the Griefers start crying for more nerfs.

[KraftySOT]

Kjudoon, on 20 November 2014 - 09:18 AM, said:

Lower damage or more armor is a band aid on leprosy. It covers up the lesions, but does nothing for the cause. Pinpoint damage and convergeance is the disease that needs Thalidomide.

I agree completely, but theres a certain level of distaste levied at changing their aiming system. But im with you the first two are bandaids of the real problem.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ultimatum X, on 20 November 2014 - 09:09 AM, said:

I see some people who I know often complain about short TTK also here stating there can never be too much brawling and I wonder how they rectify these two conflicting desires.

They prefer an offensive play style over a defensive one?

[FupDup]

KraftySOT, on 20 November 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Lower damage or more armor.

Though ideally you just fix the whole pin point damage thing. Make the cross hair floating, have some time for the weapons to converge properly, etc...

Either you lower damage, increase armor, or decrease accuracy. That brings up the TTK.

I think what Ulti was getting at is that brawlers usually tend to have higher damage output (therefore, they kill stuff faster) than longer range mechs.

So it's kind of ironic to complain about not enough brawling and mechs dying "too fast," because more brawling means higher damage output and easier to aim at components, therefore even faster deaths. Not to mention that it's easier to get multiple firing lines on one target as distances get shorter, so more focus fire and faster deaths.

[STEF_]

KharnZor, on 20 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Clueless.

(should I answer to an unskilled?)

No.

[KraftySOT]

FupDup, on 20 November 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

I think what Ulti was getting at is that brawlers usually tend to have higher damage output (therefore, they kill stuff faster) than longer range mechs.

So it's kind of ironic to complain about not enough brawling and mechs dying "too fast," because more brawling means higher damage output and easier to aim at components, therefore even faster deaths. Not to mention that it's easier to get multiple firing lines on one target as distances get shorter, so more focus fire and faster deaths.

Well brawlers, because of the system, need that high pin point damage. Take for instance my 65 damage Wubshee. I love to brawl, love even short brawls. My brawls consist of hopping out behind cover, when the fight gets close, zapping twice for a kill, then moving on to the next target while I cool off a tad. 130 points of damage in 4 seconds is pretty outstanding. The brawling is much funs.

It would be MORE funs...if it was dragged out to I dont know...4 zaps. Theres a huge number of ways to accomplish that via the system provided.

I dont see the irony.

Brawling is fun even though its short. It would be more fun, if it was a tad longer.

Not seeing your point really.

[Gallowglas]

FupDup, on 20 November 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Not to mention that it's easier to get multiple firing lines on one target as distances get shorter, so more focus fire and faster deaths.

There's a point at which shorter range has the opposite effect. I'd venture to say that what you describe is probably true at 400-500m, but inside 300m, there's a whole lot of face-hugging that goes on. I'm always yelling at people to flank the enemy and not drive right into their grill so people can put shots on target, but in public matches that's very, very hard to convince people to do. I can't tell you how many times I've had to hold shots for extended periods because firing would mean hitting my own teammates who decided to hug the enemy.

Edited by Gallowglas, 20 November 2014 - 09:27 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Let me point out something too in regards to brawling: Viridian Bog is both an excellent brawling and LRM map. No really. It's a horror show to snipers because of limited to outright horrid visibility. Guided weapons work awesome. Not all cover is actually cover (I discovered this in a horrible situation last night that almost caused a rage quit for a few hours if we hadn't won). So you're left with LRMs and knife fighters.

Each map dictates the best style of fighting. You have many sniping maps, but now over time, we're developing more and more close in maps where there are places where long range games are useful, but the game is really going to very short range and long rangeindirect fire/guided with the two new maps. (Oh for Mech Mortars) If they do revisit the old maps as VLOG#10 has stated as a desire, then we could probably see upgrades to those maps, not only in quality of it, but hopefully in size. (I would love to see every map be at least the size of alpine but keep their old qualities more or less.

Experience is providing us with far better gaming experience, and that means every map ultimately (if my ability to discern goals from PGI is accurate on this) every fighting style and role on the battlefield will ultimately be useful on the maps.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 November 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

KharnZor, on 20 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

Clueless.

Liked it because I was a very big TNG fan. Specially Worf.

[KraftySOT]

I mean TTK is the same in my Banshee as it is in my JagerBombGauss.

Despite the sniping vs brawling.

TTK is pretty low because of all the pin point damage you can put out. Be it 30 at 700 meters, or 65 at 220m. Either way, good players are going to nail you twice, and youre going to die.

It would be nice if that would be...4 times...

You can do damage or armor to accomplish that, but simply giving me a less accurate aiming platform would do the same thing, and put the challenge back into aiming for me.

[KharnZor]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 November 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

(should I answer to an unskilled?)

No.

Hit a nerve again?
You really are a bad.

[Joseph Mallan]

KharnZor, on 20 November 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

Hit a nerve again?
You really are a bad.

Not from my experience with Stefka. He can be on my team any Day/Night/Weekend!

[KraftySOT]

Yeah ive seen Stefka on the field. Not a bad.

[Kjudoon]

KraftySOT, on 20 November 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Well brawlers, because of the system, need that high pin point damage. Take for instance my 65 damage Wubshee. I love to brawl, love even short brawls. My brawls consist of hopping out behind cover, when the fight gets close, zapping twice for a kill, then moving on to the next target while I cool off a tad. 130 points of damage in 4 seconds is pretty outstanding. The brawling is much funs.

It would be MORE funs...if it was dragged out to I dont know...4 zaps. Theres a huge number of ways to accomplish that via the system provided.

I dont see the irony.

Brawling is fun even though its short. It would be more fun, if it was a tad longer.

Not seeing your point really.

Oh we have two different styles of play. I HATE brawling. Hate hate hate. Brawling is the sign you didn't do your job right from my POV. Ideally targets should die no closer than 500m away and I take zero damage. That's nice right there. But that's my playstyle in pretty much all games from TTRPGs on forward. I'm the archer, grenade launcher, artillery specialist, sniper, demolitions expert in the rear with the remote control. That's the style I've always loved. That means in this game, only a few weaponsystems fit the bill, and the biggest is LRMs.

So like I said... brawling is when things go wrong, and is never a positive or pleasant experience for me, even when I win... I hate it.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 November 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[-Halcyon-]

There isn't enough Brawling.
The majority of my games are spammed with LRMs.

Imo the real meat of Mechwarrior is getting up close and doing some damage. If you want to sit 2000m away and plink then take a Long Tom.