170 replies to this topic

[Rhent]

Me thinks she (*****) Ross protesteth too much. He's released 2 brawl maps in a row (mech factory and swamp). Factory gave a 400M range at the most and Swamp is giving a 200M range at most. Of course people are going to be brawling. Short of doing massive changes to those maps or reducing their spawn rates everyone is going to be running brawlers.

[Gattsus]

For every post regarding brawling I see one about lrm op.

[KharnZor]

ShinobiHunter, on 19 November 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

To facesmash an enemy is easy. To brawl takes practice. To brawl well takes intelligence and strategy. More so than laser sniping or Lurming at very least.

Running into enemy mechs with guns blazing is not the same as brawling.

Of course this is just my 2 cents though.

it is however the correct 2 cents.

[Abisha]

to much brawling?.
is that a bad thing....... o yea naughty, naughty.

[Kilo 40]

I finally listened to the section the OP was referring to, and Russ didn't say that at all.

"There's no ranged combat is the complaint" is not the same as "you guys said there is too much brawling!"

Edited by Kilo 40, 20 November 2014 - 12:23 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

I actually think there is too much brawling in most games now, i may be alone here, but i think a giant clusterf**k 4 minutes into the game where your survival or lack thereof is decided pretty much on luck (if 3 enemies primary you in a brawl, you're dead pretty much with no chance) is very little fun. Id much, much rather a poking game leading to flanking maneuvers and tactics which lasts 14 mins than a 3 min mess fest... maybe thats just me though.

[QuantumButler]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

I actually think there is too much brawling in most games now, i may be alone here, but i think a giant clusterf**k 4 minutes into the game where your survival or lack thereof is decided pretty much on luck (if 3 enemies primary you in a brawl, you're dead pretty much with no chance) is very little fun. Id much, much rather a poking game leading to flanking maneuvers and tactics which lasts 14 mins than a 3 min mess fest... maybe thats just me though.

Shut yo mouth

Cluster****s are way more fun.

Edited by QuantumButler, 20 November 2014 - 01:53 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Whoops, on 19 November 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

There can never be too much brawling.

THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MUCH BRAWLING!

[Widowmaker1981]

QuantumButler, on 20 November 2014 - 01:53 AM, said:

Shut yo mouth

Cluster****s are way more fun.

to each their own. I couldn't disagree more.

[YueFei]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

I actually think there is too much brawling in most games now, i may be alone here, but i think a giant clusterf**k 4 minutes into the game where your survival or lack thereof is decided pretty much on luck (if 3 enemies primary you in a brawl, you're dead pretty much with no chance) is very little fun. Id much, much rather a poking game leading to flanking maneuvers and tactics which lasts 14 mins than a 3 min mess fest... maybe thats just me though.

Maybe if you can coordinate with teammates to body-block for you if you get primaried, you can survive it and continue to pump shots into the fight from behind them.

That level of coordination of movement would be fun! Might not be easy to pull off, but then again neither is properly blocking that easy in Gridiron Football, where merely putting your helmet on the wrong side of the defender's shoulder pads can result in a failed block and a blown play.

[Lily from animove]

there is indeed a bit too much brawl, but this is basically caused by the laser range nerfs and the fact that on most maps the deathballbrawl is the best tactic. Most maps are not suited for snipers since ther eis always enough cover to bring your mechs into brawl distance.

I blame the maps.

but lets see how CW is affecting this and if people will try to bring the power plants for the gates down with some snipers from a safe distance. Big maps liek CW will probably cause more nsiper builds, otherwise light snipers will be a annoying threat and you will have to bring a counter for them.

YueFei, on 20 November 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Maybe if you can coordinate with teammates to body-block for you if you get primaried, you can survive it and continue to pump shots into the fight from behind them.

That level of coordination of movement would be fun! Might not be easy to pull off, but then again neither is properly blocking that easy in Gridiron Football, where merely putting your helmet on the wrong side of the defender's shoulder pads can result in a failed block and a blown play.

wiht the current ttk, when people focus on you, communicating that you are focused fired and bringing your mates into position will not happen before you are down. Otherwise they may be so close to you, that youu are going to eat arty all day.

The current game mechanics are all about peek fire and retreat or push and fire as long as you last. complex maneuvers are a one shot chance when you meet the opponent, put past this there is hardly some chance to alter and change tactics. TTk is too short for such complex actions.

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 November 2014 - 02:37 AM.

[Lily from animove]

derp :/

Edited by Lily from animove, 20 November 2014 - 02:36 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

OK we had brawling, sniping, jump sniping, brawling - all the time with high effective sniping and brawling mechs....

Hello Guys - I hate both - what about us mid range guys? We/ I don't want / need high velocity projectiles... the AC 20 and AC 10 speed feel right - i don't need a pocket AC 20 called SRM for every Mech with the Rate of fire of a Machine Gun.

I want to have excellent trooper Mechs - that can dish out more damage as the sniper - with more range as the brawler - shouldn't be that hard to balance right? But while we are changing between extremes it seems to be

[Widowmaker1981]

YueFei, on 20 November 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Maybe if you can coordinate with teammates to body-block for you if you get primaried, you can survive it and continue to pump shots into the fight from behind them.

That level of coordination of movement would be fun! Might not be easy to pull off, but then again neither is properly blocking that easy in Gridiron Football, where merely putting your helmet on the wrong side of the defender's shoulder pads can result in a failed block and a blown play.

LOL. In group play maybe, try that in the solo queue:

1) being shot by 3 people
2) push 'Y'
3) Type "guys im being f"
4) dead already before finishing first sentence, due to not torso twisting or moving at all.

[Dago Red]

ShinobiHunter, on 19 November 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

To facesmash an enemy is easy. To brawl takes practice. To brawl well takes intelligence and strategy. More so than laser sniping or Lurming at very least.

Running into enemy mechs with guns blazing is not the same as brawling.

Of course this is just my 2 cents though.

That's why competent brawlers call ourselves "skirmishers" when in mixed company.

[Willard Phule]

Monkey Lover, on 19 November 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

1:32;00

Has there every been to much brawling? For what i have seen even the srm mechs have XR lasers. I don't think i seen a IS mech run a large laser in weeks haha

Keep in mind this is Russ we're talking about here.

He's OBVIOUSLY referring specifically to the Group Queue.

Why do I say that? Because those of us in the Solo Queue are ignored out of hand. That and the Solo Queue has been all about whoever's got the most LRMs that are covered by ECM. Been that way for months now.

You can still brawl in the Solo Queue, you just have to wait until the LRM/Sniper war is over. Takes anywhere from 5-8 minutes. Just find a big, fat LRM boat (preferably piloted by someone new that can't unzoom without looking at his/her hands) and use it as a shield until they all run out of ammo. Then wade in and brawl them down.

[Joseph Mallan]

Kiiyor, on 19 November 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

There can never be too much brawling.

Unless you are long range fire support or a sniper.

[Willard Phule]

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

there is indeed a bit too much brawl, but this is basically caused by the laser range nerfs and the fact that on most maps the deathballbrawl is the best tactic. Most maps are not suited for snipers since ther eis always enough cover to bring your mechs into brawl distance.

I blame the maps.

Again, you must be speaking about the Group Queue. There really isn't much brawling in the solo queue until the last 1/3 of the match. If you try to brawl before the LRMs and Snipers run out of LRM/Gauss ammo, you're only asking to have your team stand way back and watch you do it alone. There is no teamwork in the solo queue because there are no teams. Just groups of 12 random people forced to put up with each other's incompetence.

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

but lets see how CW is affecting this and if people will try to bring the power plants for the gates down with some snipers from a safe distance. Big maps liek CW will probably cause more nsiper builds, otherwise light snipers will be a annoying threat and you will have to bring a counter for them.

How's CW working out for you? I'm assuming you're involved since there have been posts about CW already progressing. I can't participate, I'm not part of an organized group.

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

wiht the current ttk, when people focus on you, communicating that you are focused fired and bringing your mates into position will not happen before you are down. Otherwise they may be so close to you, that youu are going to eat arty all day.

The current game mechanics are all about peek fire and retreat or push and fire as long as you last. complex maneuvers are a one shot chance when you meet the opponent, put past this there is hardly some chance to alter and change tactics. TTk is too short for such complex actions.

Especially in the solo queue.

Keep in mind that the spread of skill levels in the solo queue is pretty wide. One phenomena that is universal is the "I see a red triangle! Everyone rush to it and kill it!" That's one of the main reasons why you get shot by 8 people if you poke your head out too early. You have to wait for the snipers/LRMs to either run out of ammo or get out of position and get isolated. Either or.

Joseph Mallan, on 20 November 2014 - 04:52 AM, said:

Unless you are long range fire support or a sniper.

.....or an ECM light with nothing but SSRMs.....or you can't unzoom to move without looking at your fingers.....or someone that's praying to get locks for their LRMs but noone on the team brought BAP/CAP/TAG/NARC to cut their ECM.....

The list goes on and on and on....

Edited by Willard Phule, 20 November 2014 - 04:55 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Jman5, on 19 November 2014 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'd like to know who is feeding Russ these lines about there being too much brawling. The important thing to note about short range vs longer range weapons is that almost all long range weapons are just as strong at short range as they are at long. An ER Large Laser will be just as deadly at 270 meters as it is at 675 meters. Brawling weapons on the other hand are literally useless past their maximum range. I can't do anything with my SRMs if a Raven 3L is at 800 meters with nothing but open ground between us. This is why you have to balance brawling weapons so they can out damage/dps long range weapons. Otherwise why the hell would you ever equip anything but sniper weapons?

So again I would like to know who is telling Russ this and what their argument is.

Except the Long range weapons are generally heavier, hotter and cool down slower, so they are out DPS in a brawl by brawler weapons. Ofc, idk wtf PGI was thinking with STK SRMs giving them 7s CD, but w/e.

You can generally pack in more Short range weapons over the longer range, so you get better overall damage at close range with short weapons. Ofc, there is the GR, thats generates no heat and deals its 15dmg no matter what..

Short weapons brawl better.....ML/MPL/SPL/SL/SRM, AC20s..yeah..

[psihius]

People playing long range just haven't learned how to avoid a brawl to the last second. It is very easy for a skilled player to get into sniper backs and kick their ass. I, actually, rely on this type of gameplay. I get deep in their backs and punch hard like there is an atlas lance behind them - people panic and I just pick them off 1 by 1, many times to a ridicilous degree of success.

Many just have the tunnel vision - they do not see their flanks, nor does helps the fact that lights are playing brawling/harasing game and do not scout the flanks constantly. Just give yourself a 400-500m range from where the usual brawl happens, take a path with enought cover and you hit a jackpot. Coordinate with your teammates to hit simultaniously and you just scored yourself 2 to 3 kills into the backs easilly.

Edited by psihius, 20 November 2014 - 05:07 AM.