170 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Willard Phule, on 20 November 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

.....or an ECM light with nothing but SSRMs.....or you can't unzoom to move without looking at your fingers.....or someone that's praying to get locks for their LRMs but noone on the team brought BAP/CAP/TAG/NARC to cut their ECM.....

The list goes on and on and on....

Small difference between what you said here and Military MOSs...

[STEF_]

ShinobiHunter, on 19 November 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

To brawl well takes intelligence and strategy. More so than sniping

NO.

(er-ppc and gauss is sniping, and require high sense of positioning and skill).



C'MON PGI, give me back my ol'good sniping matches!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YueFei]

Lily from animove, on 20 November 2014 - 02:30 AM, said:

wiht the current ttk, when people focus on you, communicating that you are focused fired and bringing your mates into position will not happen before you are down. Otherwise they may be so close to you, that youu are going to eat arty all day.

The current game mechanics are all about peek fire and retreat or push and fire as long as you last. complex maneuvers are a one shot chance when you meet the opponent, put past this there is hardly some chance to alter and change tactics. TTk is too short for such complex actions.

Arty radius is only 60 meters, teammates don't need to be that far away to avoid being arty bait, but still close enough to body block for you.

Plus, if I usually last long enough to fire at least 3 or 4 salvos even in my *worst* games as a Hunchback, pre-quirks, that means I lived about 10 seconds or so after doing something completely idiotic and getting focused and blown up. That's plenty of time for teammates to shift forward and plug the enemy's firing angles.

Really, when people get focus-fired into oblivion near instantly it's from a positional error. People like to hate on Villz but one video of his I saw where he was providing tips for other players has stuck with me. He's at the crashed drop ship, Frozen City, in the gap between the two broken pieces. He fires at a Victor, sees more enemy mechs through the gap, and all he does is step backward about 30 meters. That's all it takes. Suddenly the field of fire narrows, and the only mech he can hit and be hit by is the Victor. As he says, by shifting backward just a little bit, suddenly none of the Victor's friends can help him.

These kind of subtle adjustments in positioning really distinguishes between average pilots and good pilots. Watch some of Jigglymoobs' videos, you'll see similar movement techniques. He's not hugging a corner as he turns it, he slices the pie around it, just 50 or 60 meters away from it, so he's still using cover, but he's using it intelligently, and limiting his exposure. He can isolate 1 or 2 enemies at a time to fire upon and trade with, rather than hugging the corner tightly, turning the corner, and being hit by 4 or 5 enemies at the same time.

[YueFei]

Widowmaker1981, on 20 November 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

LOL. In group play maybe, try that in the solo queue:

1) being shot by 3 people
2) push 'Y'
3) Type "guys im being f"
4) dead already before finishing first sentence, due to not torso twisting or moving at all.

Solo queue lacks the same coordination, but even there I've sometimes seen teammates step in front of injured teammates to save them. I've done it before myself when I can, stepping directly into an enemy's face to block for a teammate.

Of course, that's just blocking 1 opponent, things get trickier if you're trying to coordinate blocks on more than 1 enemy mech. Not much different than a Gridiron Football offensive line trying to sort out blocking responsibilities at the line of scrimmage. Get it wrong, and 1 defender comes free to bust up your play.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yoseful Mallad, on 19 November 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

just because youre not seeing it, does not mean its not out there. Im seeing just as many ranged builds as I am close combat builds. Back in Beta, all we see was brawl, brawl, brawl with all weapons. Now Ranged weapons have more bight at range where youre not needed to be in close... so people are indeed using them at range. And close combat weapons (medium to short range) are just as deadly in those ranges... so thats what you are seeing mostly now. There is no need for the LL long ranged ballistics types to be up in your face as they once were.

i sure see a lot of PPCs and LL/ERLL hitting a lot of people from distance now. So IMO, a lot of the needless brawling has calmed down. Im actually seeing people use their ranged weapons and skirting around at range now.

considering the poptart meta had all but killed brawling for 1.5 years, dunno what all the complaining about.....unless people want this to revert to sniperwarrior online?

[Karl Streiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

considering the poptart meta had all but killed brawling for 1.5 years, dunno what all the complaining about.....unless people want this to revert to sniperwarrior online?

They killed brawling simple for the fact of missing SRM hit detection.... before SRMs work great at we had the Splashpult at the same time as the ppc stalker - the Victor and later the SHD made pop tarting valuable - with the lack of decent light weight short range weapons.

As you know - they increased the damage for SRMs - because of bad hit detection - but with more or less working hit detection the damage kept the same.

So why don't we see the Splashpult? Simple: you have JaegerMechs, Ghostheat and you have Mad Dogs and Timber Wolfs - and you have the weapon geometry fix for the A1....together with missile doors the A1 is inferior to almost any other available brawler.

To make every weapon at each range workable you dearly need a simple line:

• long range:extreme low Rate of Fire (high alpha - low DPS
  
• medium range: medium Rate of Fire (medium alpha medium DPS)
  
• short range: high Rate of Fire (low alpha - High DPS)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 20 November 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 20 November 2014 - 06:13 AM, said:

To make every weapon at each range workable you dearly need a simple line:

• long range:extreme low Rate of Fire (high alpha - low DPS
  
• medium range: medium Rate of Fire (medium alpha medium DPS)
  
• short range: high Rate of Fire (low alpha - High DPS)

Won't work Karl. It sounds logical even sensible. Never happen in a F2P game!

[STEF_]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 November 2014 - 05:51 AM, said:

sniperwarrior online?

mmmmmm.... a yummy idea...

[bluepiglet]

[Hillslam]

I find it laughable anyone complaining about brawling while such abortions as 1500m+ ranged 60+ damage pinpoint alpha cheesedires still are allowed to exist.

"Too much brawling"

Please

[Kjudoon]

Monkey Lover, on 19 November 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

i agree. All i see is range camping .
Alpha
hide
Alpha
hide
cool down
repeat.

That is due to pinpoint damage. Remove that and convergeance and it will go away. "What? I can't put a 50 point alpha all in the side torso? This game is broken! I can't easymode anymore!"

Or:

"What? I can't 5UAC chainsaw people anymore and watch pieces fly off like a loaf of monkey bread in a pack of little children? This game is broken! I can't easymode anymore!"

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 November 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

I know I went through and remade a lot of my mechs to take advantage of the quirks and see how they worked, but I've ended up switching a few back my original configurations. I think others will follow suit, eventually, although you think back on the really great, really fun games you've had, I'm willing to bet it wasn't three guys chasing around the ECM Spider with the ERPPC...

[Kjudoon]

Dago Red, on 20 November 2014 - 03:26 AM, said:

That's why competent brawlers call ourselves "skirmishers" when in mixed company.

Just as people don't believe there are competent support pilots... there are competent brawlers? Who knew?

I thought all the did was get drunk, put on a silly hat and trusted their luck... to borrow a phrase from Lord Blackadder.

Edited by Kjudoon, 20 November 2014 - 08:44 AM.

[Iskareot]

Deltron Zero, on 19 November 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

There can never be too much brawling.

I agree what the crap this is the best part.... way better then the LRMs that you can fire behind a building or mountain and not even see what they hit or when.

[KharnZor]

Stefka Kerensky, on 20 November 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

NO.

(er-ppc and gauss is sniping, and require high sense of positioning and skill).



C'MON PGI, give me back my ol'good sniping matches!!!!!!!!!!!!

Clueless.

[Kjudoon]

Iskareot, on 20 November 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

I agree what the crap this is the best part.... way better then the LRMs that you can fire behind a building or mountain and not even see what they hit or when.

Don't knock it. It's a lot of fun. It's just a.... different kind of fun than what most FPS players are looking for.

[Revis Volek]

EvilCow, on 19 November 2014 - 11:38 AM, said:

This is the effect of over nerfing PPCs and THEN introducing mainly quirks for short range weapons.

How unexpected.

Wait....what?!

So your telling me your staff buffed Ballisitcs, SRM's and Medium lasers/pulse on most builds (in comparison to Large Laser, LRM's and streaks lol) but then you are curious as to why Brawling got more prevalent?

If you piss into the wind and it gets on your hands do you wonder why your hands all of a sudden smell like piss as well?

[carl kerensky]

Deltron Zero, on 19 November 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

There can never be too much brawling.

Yes and yes. Besides it will feel closer to Mechwarrior instead of quake warrior when we can have sustained battles and of course more brawling.

[Gallowglas]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like there's a pretty good balance between brawls and ranged right now. We've run both in competitive play and done just fine. Is it scary when an SRM, AC/20, or pulse boat manages to get into knife-fighting range? Yes, of course. However, it should be. It's exactly the same sort of "well, darn" moment you get when you find yourself pinned down by gauss, LRM's and laser vomit.

The thing is, when you consider risk versus reward, the ranged game carries a WHOLE lot less risk. I think the only time the perceived imbalance crops up is when the enemy team does a giant, rolling death ball and denies the ranged game through a coordinated push. However, how the heck would you ever be able to maintain the viability of short-range weapons and not carry that risk? It's really a product of having maps without open ground and in which the enemy team can force a close-in engagement rather than a weapon imbalance issue.

That said, it's also player impatience. Snipey teams don't work out so well when you have players with ADHD that don't understand that it's a bad idea to run into the middle of a brawl with gauss and ERLL.

Edited by Gallowglas, 20 November 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[KraftySOT]

Kiiyor, on 20 November 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

THERE CAN NEVER BE TOO MUCH BRAWLING!

THERE CAN NEVER BE TO MUCH BRAWLING!!