496 replies to this topic

[Johnny Z]

AlphaToaster, on 04 December 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

Completely false. At least w/ STD 350 engine can run AC/20, 2 med lasers, SRM16 or SRM18 depending on if it's the DDC or the S. They go 63-65kph with these engines. They're durable as heck in the process. Running an XL in an atlas is really dumb on so many levels that it's not really a valid comparison.

Direwhale runs 54kph?

There's also a solid build for the Atlas using a STD 360 engine, 2 UAC/5's, and 2 LL + ECM @ 65kph. Range isn't a problem for this build in any way and it can carry enough ammo to core out a lance of direwhales.

Sounds impressive but you forgot to mention what a DW can run with an XL engine and their lighter weapons and equipment that take up less space isnt that part of the subject here.

Also you realize your siggesting that a DW and an Atlas are balanced at the moment right. Have you taken a minute to consider if your right or wrong or even a second.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Lol, why not decrease Clan weapon ranges to be maybe 100m further then IS weapons? We have deviated so from TT/lore as it is. Shorten Clan ranges, decrease their burn times, decrease their cool downs and in the end, just make them slightly harder hitting, mildly more range IS weapons....

IS ML: 270 6d 5h 2.75cd 0.85 burn time
C ML: 350 7d 6h 2.85cd 0.975 burn time
IS ERPPC: 770 12d 13.5h 5cd 950m/s
C ERPPC: 810 12d 13.5h 5cd 1000m/s
IS AC10: 650 10d(2 shots) 3.5cd 1250m/s
C AC10: 700 10d(3 shots) 2.75cd(its an ultra after all) 1350m/s

All that just as a rough idea what im getting at lol.

[AlphaToaster]

terrycloth, on 04 December 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I tried the DDC w/ machine guns and LRM 15s while levelling it up. Once. It was that bad. I had NARC and large lasers though.

Current DDC build is 2xLPL, 2x AC5, 3xSRM2. And fight at medium range (~400m). It's... okay. Better than my highlander (ha ha, I know), and better results than my -S with AC20, SRM24, and 4xMPL. In theory, the -S build can kill things in two shots. In practice, it overheats like crazy.

That's the hardest part about balancing the firepower to heat on the assaults. I found on the Atlas less sometimes is more. For example on the AS7-S 4 med lasers, SRM/16, AC20, and I find I can work the heat scale better in combat. I can fire more continuously. The SRM24 is incredibly hot and probably the cause of the issue. The Mad Doge has the same problem.

[superteds]

AlphaToaster, on 04 December 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

That's the hardest part about balancing the firepower to heat on the assaults. I found on the Atlas less sometimes is more. For example on the AS7-S 4 med lasers, SRM/16, AC20, and I find I can work the heat scale better in combat. I can fire more continuously. The SRM24 is incredibly hot and probably the cause of the issue. The Mad Doge has the same problem.

set up the srms again in a second group and set this one to chainfire. thus, if you need to stay powered up you can click (very quickly) the chain group to fire just as many SRM volleys as you need, rather than the full 4 incurring ghost heat. that, or use the lasers less.

[SirLANsalot]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 December 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

Even post-quirk, piloting an Atlas simply puts your team at a huge disadvantage because you're taking up a Direwolf slot.

But, you say, "Atlases can outbrawl direwolves!"

Let's assume that this statement is true (it's not), brawling range is 270 meters for an atlas with AC20 and SRMs. I will admit that this is by far the best way to run an atlas. However, the combination of slow speed and short range means you don't really get to engage in your effective range unless you have an entire team that's willing to back you up. This is compounded by the fact that UAC direwolves out-DPS atlases at all ranges regardless of build.

So let's say you want to build an atlas that can fight back. That means equipping ranged weapons in low-slung torso and arm hardpoints, or filling your missile hardpoints with LRMs. LRM assaults put the team at a disadvantage because you're wasting your high armor capacity, and the low-slung hardpoints mean you pretty much always get the second shot, or no shot at all, against targets engaging from range, and you can't use cover effectively.

Atlases simply have no effective role in this game when compared to a Direwolf taking the same spot.

Someone needs to go to Atlas School.


The Atlas is a MULTI-role mech, capable of engaging at nearly any range.

The mech is able to brawl with the best of them, and will be able to play the poke game to an extent.

Speed is not this mechs forte (nor is it for the DW), running an eng over a 325 is wasting tonnage on speed that you are not made for. This mech requires good map knowlage and positioning to bring its weapons to bear at any time.

DWF UAC5 builds...are bad and deal almost no damage. Now if they had 4 UAC10's, well that is a different story, and those mechs will tear up anything.

Here are some builds that have the same or better eng as a DWF
AS7-D-DC
AS7-D
AS7-S (with 325)
AS7-S (with 300 and chainfire SRM4)

Do note that every build has ERLL on it, giving the Atlas the ability to engage at longer ranges then its short ranged torso. These ERLL also complement the brawling guns when short range engagements happen (think of them as an extra 18 points of damage you can deal). Either way, this gives the Atlas the ability to fight on any map, and will be even more effective on short range maps, like Factory and River City.


Edit: Whatever you do, NEVER EVER EVER EVER put Medium Lasers in the arms of an Atlas, it is a waste of a good energy slot and a heavy loss in damage that the arms could be doing.

Edited by SirLANsalot, 04 December 2014 - 12:34 PM.

[Johnny Z]

I do have an IS assault that does well much more often than not, and it is slower than a DW. This is the only way for battlemechs as apposed to Omni mechs, to fit the firepower needed to be even slightly competitive in the current in game assault role.

[superteds]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Someone needs to go to Atlas School.


The Atlas is a MULTI-role mech, capable of engaging at nearly any range.

The mech is able to brawl with the best of them, and will be able to play the poke game to an extent.

Speed is not this mechs forte (nor is it for the DW), running an eng over a 325 is wasting tonnage on speed that you are not made for. This mech requires good map knowlage and positioning to bring its weapons to bear at any time.

DWF UAC5 builds...are bad and deal almost no damage. Now if they had 4 UAC10's, well that is a different story, and those mechs will tear up anything.

Here are some builds that have the same or better eng as a DWF
AS7-D-DC
AS7-D
AS7-S (with 325)
AS7-S (with 300 and chainfire SRM4)

Do note that every build has ERLL on it, giving the Atlas the ability to engage at longer ranges then its short ranged torso. These ERLL also complement the brawling guns when short range engagements happen (think of them as an extra 18 points of damage you can deal). Either way, this gives the Atlas the ability to fight on any map, and will be even more effective on short range maps, like Factory and River City.

ammo out of ST and CT, you spend a lot of time fighting in structure in an atlas, no need to risk blowing your side/centre early. put it in the arms and legs, and the arm ammo will be used up long before it becomes a risk.

[AlmightyAeng]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Someone needs to go to Atlas School.

True...it might be you.

Quote

The Atlas is a MULTI-role mech, capable of engaging at nearly any range.

Truth. But in the MWO version, it's kind of wasted on anything but brawling.

Quote

The mech is able to brawl with the best of them, and will be able to play the poke game to an extent.

Truth.

Quote

Speed is not this mechs forte (nor is it for the DW), running an eng over a 325 is wasting tonnage on speed that you are not made for.

OOH. Crap. You just lost me. The reason an Atlas can 'brawl with the best of them' is that it's able to protect its GIANT CT by twisting. If you run anything SMALLER than a 325, your twisting speed is sub-optimal. 325 or 350 is where you wanna be.

Quote

This mech requires good map knowledge and positioning to bring its weapons to bear at any time.

Truth.

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

That you are suggesting there is any balance between a DW and an Atlas at the moment is so devoid of even the understanding of basic math or the concept, I will not reply to this since it is most likely a troll or you failed grade 5 math or grade 2 which ever may be the case, and if that is the case I am sorry for suggesting your intelligence quotient is that of a sock HAHA. I dont have an Atlas but there is no balance at the moment between one and a DW.

Insulting my intelligence and then admitting you have no experience in an Atlas (one of the two things being compared) makes you sound like you know what you are talking about *sarcasm*. You've been stating repeatedly that an Atlas can't match a Dire Wolves speed, I stated that this is obviously not true unless the Atlas pilot is doing something incredibly wrong.

Instead of defending your statement or making a reasonable response you attack me be saying I'm as smart as a sock.

k...

[Johnny Z]

An atlas could be competitive if it was running at 50kph and packed short range weapons and waited around a corner for DW. It isnt impossible, its if the two are balanced or not and they currently are not until XL engines have some kind of balance.

[pwnface]

SirLANsalot, on 04 December 2014 - 12:32 PM, said:

Someone needs to go to Atlas School.


The Atlas is a MULTI-role mech, capable of engaging at nearly any range.

The mech is able to brawl with the best of them, and will be able to play the poke game to an extent.

Speed is not this mechs forte (nor is it for the DW), running an eng over a 325 is wasting tonnage on speed that you are not made for. This mech requires good map knowlage and positioning to bring its weapons to bear at any time.

DWF UAC5 builds...are bad and deal almost no damage. Now if they had 4 UAC10's, well that is a different story, and those mechs will tear up anything.

Here are some builds that have the same or better eng as a DWF
AS7-D-DC
AS7-D
AS7-S (with 325)
AS7-S (with 300 and chainfire SRM4)

Do note that every build has ERLL on it, giving the Atlas the ability to engage at longer ranges then its short ranged torso. These ERLL also complement the brawling guns when short range engagements happen (think of them as an extra 18 points of damage you can deal). Either way, this gives the Atlas the ability to fight on any map, and will be even more effective on short range maps, like Factory and River City.


Edit: Whatever you do, NEVER EVER EVER EVER put Medium Lasers in the arms of an Atlas, it is a waste of a good energy slot and a heavy loss in damage that the arms could be doing.

I would never pilot an atlas with less than a STD340. Torso twisting is how you keep your mech alive, having less than a STD340 makes it much more difficult to do that. The Atlas in MWO is really only good as a brawler and should always be played as such. If you are taking LRMs or ERPPCs you are doing it wrong.

[AlphaToaster]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

Sounds impressive but you forgot to mention what a DW can run with an XL engine and their lighter weapons and equipment that take up less space isnt that part of the subject here.

Also you realize your siggesting that a DW and an Atlas are balanced at the moment right. Have you taken a minute to consider if your right or wrong or even a second.

Lets see, Direwolf runs at 54kph, while the AS7's pull closer to 65kph. Atlas are faster, check.

Direwolf cannot shield its CT by twisting while the AS7's can. Check.

AS7 can mount ECM on the competitive build, while the Direwolf cannot. Check.

Clans in general have their XL engines/Omnipods/lighter weapons, but that is balanced with customization for the IS and quirks. There's talk of some clan mechs gaining quirks too but that's to help those individual clan mechs which are found lacking (nova summoner to name 2).

I don't think the Atlas needs anything personally. It's my opinion and there is no right or wrong opinion, but if I came on here claiming Direwhales have JJ and Atlas don't so Direwhales are better, I'm sure you would be there to correct me ya? Same thing bud, you were wrong. Not even an opinion, just your facts since you don't pilot them.

[pwnface]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

An atlas could be competitive if it was running at 50kph and packed short range weapons and waited around a corner for DW. It isnt impossible, its if the two are balanced or not and they currently are not until XL engines have some kind of balance.

An Atlas doesn't have to match a DW in firepower to beat it at close range. It's called TORSO TWISTING. Do some research and learn how to play before you spew crap on the forums please.

[Johnny Z]

pwnface, on 04 December 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Insulting my intelligence and then admitting you have no experience in an Atlas (one of the two things being compared) makes you sound like you know what you are talking about *sarcasm*. You've been stating repeatedly that an Atlas can't match a Dire Wolves speed, I stated that this is obviously not true unless the Atlas pilot is doing something incredibly wrong.

Instead of defending your statement or making a reasonable response you attack me be saying I'm as smart as a sock.

k...

Your forums skill suggest you are in fact smarter than a sock. Your ability to add up what a DW with an Xl engine and lighter equipment that takes up less space vrs what an Atlas can take into a fight suggest your math skills compared to those of a sock may be lacking.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2014 - 12:42 PM.

[superteds]

pwnface, on 04 December 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

An Atlas doesn't have to match a DW in firepower to beat it at close range. It's called TORSO TWISTING. Do some research and learn how to play before you spew crap on the forums please.

but but but smurfy says it has better firepower so it must be better!!

[CDLord HHGD]

pwnface, on 04 December 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

I would never pilot an atlas with less than a STD340. Torso twisting is how you keep your mech alive, having less than a STD340 makes it much more difficult to do that. The Atlas in MWO is really only good as a brawler and should always be played as such. If you are taking LRMs or ERPPCs you are doing it wrong.

Every Atlas I own is built around the STD300. It's a good engine and coincidentally, I own the most of. I have not had a reason to sacrifice loadout for more engine and I do run a mixed loadout. I can dish it at any range.

[superteds]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 12:41 PM, said:

Your forums skill suggest you are in fact smarer than a sock. Your ability to add up what a DW with an Xl engine and lighter equipment that takes up less space vrs what an Atlas can take into a fight suggest your math skill compared to those of a sock may be lacking.

what's the obsession with socks about?

[Tlords]

In General assault mechs are liabilities the way most of the game maps are today. Yes it is nice when an atlas or dire wolf can sneak up on a mech unaware... though this is true of any mech.

I routinely kill assault mechs with lights, heavies, and mediums. I admire the assault pilots, as they are the hardest mechs to pilot. Today, it is too easy for me in a Raven or Jenner to run at an Atlas or Direwolf and live long enough to core out one of their torsos and even kill them. My experience is that as a light pilot I do not fear assault mechs. I think there is something to be said about this.

There is something about the lag shield I see in my lights. Image an Atlas if they had the same advantage I have in my lagshielded light moving 140+ kph.

Edited by Tlords, 04 December 2014 - 12:45 PM.

[Manei Domini Krigg]

Atlas - bad mech. It dont have enough of ballistic + energy slots for 100t mech.
Now i take DWF because Atlas cant do like this:

[Johnny Z]

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 12:42 PM, said:

what's the obsession with socks about?

Because socks are funny and not very good at math.

Edited by Johnny Z, 04 December 2014 - 12:45 PM.