496 replies to this topic

[Peter2000]

Johnny Z, on 04 December 2014 - 11:07 PM, said:

I have seen it all in this topic, from Atlases are support mechs to they should be battlefield ninjas sneaking up behind Direwolves to have a chance at winning. Hilarious stuff really.

Agreed. It's like almost half the people are unable to realize that 1. Atlases' long range capabilities are completely outclassed by Direwolves - only in a brawl do they stand a chance (oh, you can 2xUAC/5, 2xERLL? I can 4xUAC/5, 3xERLL) 2. If something as big and slow as an Atlas sneaks up on anything, the lights on the opposing team were asleep.

As a few people have finally started pointing out, if you literally teleport an Atlas to 200m from a DWF, it's likely to win the fight, but will still come out pretty hurt. Now consider that in a real fight on nearly any map the Direwolf can actually position itself to have at least a few seconds shooting at the Atlas (a slow, large, ground-bound 'Mech) before it is in range - and possibly far longer. During this time, the Direwolf can easily put out 100+ damage, and have hurt the Atlas badly enough that it is likely to win an engagement.

[QuantumButler]

Atlases won't even be great for IS CW, since by then we'll probably have the IS Direwoof King Grab.

[Sarlic]

Look it's not about dealing damage. It's about how it peforms overall. Everyone have their own playstyle..X can do good. Y cant do too much and Z does suck at it.

Is everyone forgetting that since beta we got new bigger, speedy engines? Everyone is putting more bigger engines in mechs. The PP damage is one of the causes. But also LRM is one of the causes why people are choosing bigger engines.

I know MWO is really hard to balance with SO MANY variables.

The whole line up of the Atlas feels outdated.

The D-DC is nearly complete, but it's something missing there. The D-DC is a powerfull chassis due his ECM ability and missile HPs. It only needs a small adjustment compared to the other variants.

The overall HP for the Atlas is terrible for his tonnage. But that's always have been.

It's a supportive mech for a reason.

The K or either the D or perhaps the RS. All of them needs attention or looked at. The K is the most weakest Atlas of them all. Sure you can drop some hardpoints and put other slots to use but that does not justify the 100 tons when you cant suck some damage. a Direwolf can take up that slot wich...has firepower. As it should be.

My solution would be going back to the roots of closed beta:

Make all STD Engines up STD 300 or 325 (higher is sacrificing):
--> Extra torso twisting for the slower STD engines. Thus packing a little bit more firepower, ammo and more.
--> This one is CRITICAL: More damage income reduction. It needs to be sturdier for his speed. Its needs to be hardened.
--> More cooling options

The Atlas does NOT need speed in order to win. You can sacrifice HP, slots, or whatever to gain speed anytime. The only reason to use speed is to make it as brawler. In order to make it brawler effective you need a bigger engine.

But thats what i would do. I think its a fine solution. But we still got two variables to handle with: PP damage and LRM. Slower engines means big slow target, more damage income for the Atlas.

Which a Atlas should tank it.The Atlas should be a hard chassis to play, it should punish you for your mistakes, but it can be a serious beast when properly (team)supported.

I dont think the chassis should be tweaked with adding more firewpower, HP layout or whatever, but the engine and damage incomes. (It should be the soaker, the leading charge, the chassis who can withstand some serious firepower.)

You can call me nuts if you want. But thats how i feel about it and how a Atlas should be. It should withstand the firewpower of any chassis for some reasonable amount of time. It should be a hard chassis to take down. It moves like building, it should withstand like a building.

Currently its not.

Edited by Sarlic, 05 December 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Monkey Lover, on 04 December 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

One match with 4x uac5 2x 5lbx and 6x small laser . I killed two fresh atlas one after another walking around a corner. Only cost me 9coolshot. Of course this was before dires turn Into primary targets and lrm magnets. Im at the point with my dires im thinking of selling them.

But that's the power of the Pilot not the Mech Itself. and your Expendables.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Yu

superteds, on 04 December 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

You could spin this argument to include basically every assault (inc clan) excluding probably the stalker, and it still wouldn't be valid.

Yup, a Warhawk is even more a waste of a Dire Wolf slot.

[Brody319]

I guess its a good thing that CW has a drop limit so at most you will see 1 direwolf per player. At minimum you might not see any at all.

[Khobai]

My idea for fixing the Atlas is giving IS hardened armor and light fusion engines as new tech upgrades.

That would make IS assaults tougher than clan assaults. But clan assaults would have more firepower. So it would create a more balanced dynamic.

hardened armor could weigh 20% more than standard armor and give 20% damage reduction. It would come at the cost of not being able to use jumpjets and losing 10% max speed.

light fusion engines would work exactly like clan XL but weigh more... they would weigh in between a standard engine and XL engine.

Edited by Khobai, 05 December 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

25% damage reduction, 'mech wide.

It's the only way.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 05 December 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Look it's not about dealing damage. It's about how it peforms overall. Everyone have their own playstyle..X can do good. Y cant do too much and Z does suck at it.

Is everyone forgetting that since beta we got new bigger, speedy engines? Everyone is putting more bigger engines in mechs. The PP damage is one of the causes. But also LRM is one of the causes why people are choosing bigger engines.

I know MWO is really hard to balance with SO MANY variables.

The whole line up of the Atlas feels outdated.

The D-DC is nearly complete, but it's something missing there. The D-DC is a powerfull chassis due his ECM ability and missile HPs. It only needs a small adjustment compared to the other variants.

The overall HP for the Atlas is terrible for his tonnage. But that's always have been.

It's a supportive mech for a reason.

The K or either the D or perhaps the RS. All of them needs attention or looked at. The K is the most weakest Atlas of them all. Sure you can drop some hardpoints and put other slots to use but that does not justify the 100 tons when you cant suck some damage. a Direwolf can take up that slot wich...has firepower. As it should be.

My solution would be going back to the roots of closed beta:

Make all STD Engines up STD 300 or 325 (higher is sacrificing):
--> Extra torso twisting for the slower STD engines. Thus packing a little bit more firepower, ammo and more.
--> This one is CRITICAL: More damage income reduction. It needs to be sturdier for his speed. Its needs to be hardened.
--> More cooling options

The Atlas does NOT need speed in order to win. You can sacrifice HP, slots, or whatever to gain speed anytime. The only reason to use speed is to make it as brawler. In order to make it brawler effective you need a bigger engine.

But thats what i would do. I think its a fine solution. But we still got two variables to handle with: PP damage and LRM. Slower engines means big slow target, more damage income for the Atlas.

Which a Atlas should tank it.The Atlas should be a hard chassis to play, it should punish you for your mistakes, but it can be a serious beast when properly (team)supported.

I dont think the chassis should be tweaked with adding more firewpower, HP layout or whatever, but the engine and damage incomes. (It should be the soaker, the leading charge, the chassis who can withstand some serious firepower.)

You can call me nuts if you want. But thats how i feel about it and how a Atlas should be. It should withstand the firewpower of any chassis for some reasonable amount of time. It should be a hard chassis to take down. It moves like building, it should withstand like a building.

Currently its not.

You say "Needs". As an Atlas Pilot I hear "Wants", Sure your suggestions would make an Atlas more Badash, but so does piloting it better. Durability is fine, power is fine, twisting is dawg as is backpedaling, but that's the price we pay for being one of the big dawgs.

[Summon3r]

d-dc beside 2 king crabs could be and should be pure evil. we will see in 11 days.

[Almond Brown]

Lefty Lucy, on 04 December 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Not even close to true. Clan mediums or lights can hit you with medium lasers and you effectively can't fight back. Direwolves outfight you at any range at all. It's a 100 ton mech, it's supposed to be feared. Right now I see atlases as easy kills.

If you restrict any slow Mech to basically 270m effective range you had best be good with covered approaches.

Perahsp add 2 x erLL on that DDC to go along with that AC20 and an SRM6 (51 Alpha) which then allows way more flexibility. Unless your all about the face hugging game play style.

Word is you should never face hug a DW, no matter what your driving...

[SgtMagor]

agreed, when the King Crab is delivered to your cache, you wont have to worry about the Atlas anymore, ole KC will protect his Little Big Buddy heh!

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

You say "Needs". As an Atlas Pilot I hear "Wants", Sure your suggestions would make an Atlas more Badash, but so does piloting it better. Durability is fine, power is fine, twisting is dawg as is backpedaling, but that's the price we pay for being one of the big dawgs.

I dont anything. But its not complete. I disagree on durability. Something has to be done about that. It should soak more damage.
You should see what i can do in just a Direwolf. I can outplay any mech with it. (On my house mate account)

Biggest problem is the PP damage.

Edited by Sarlic, 05 December 2014 - 09:00 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 05 December 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

I dont anything. But its not complete. I disagree on durability. Something has to be done about that. It should soak more damage.
You should see what i can do in just a Direwolf. I can outplay any mech with it. (On my house mate account)

It has better hard points and more weapon tonnage than most mechs in the game. Of Course it will shred really good.

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2014 - 09:01 AM, said:

It has better hard points and more weapon tonnage than most mechs in the game. Of Course it will shred really good.

My point is that the Atlas is in no way dureable with his 100 ton. Sounds odd but that how i think about it.

[Felicitatem Parco]

The Atlas's greatest failing is the BattleTech art.

All of the weapons are mounted very low, such that an Atlas approaching over a hill can be shot repeatedly in the face before it can fire back, and it can only fire back once most of its body is exposed. This is probably one of the worst-designed war machines ever.

There is nothing that PGI can do about that; all they can do is try to polish this **** with MORE quirks... They can't even put more ballistics on it because no Atlas has them. The Atlas is a one-trick pony, and that trick is face-hugging. It's the most dangerous combat technique possible, and so the Atlas has to be viewed as a disposable teammate.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 05 December 2014 - 09:03 AM, said:

My point is that the Atlas is in no way dureable with his 100 ton. Sounds odd but that how i think about it.

We are equally durable Sarlic, we carry identical armor. He packs more weapons thus can peel more armor off faster. the difference is an illusion.

[AlmightyAeng]

Prosperity Park, on 05 December 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

The Atlas's greatest failing is the BattleTech art.

All of the weapons are mounted very low, such that an Atlas approaching over a hill can be shot repeatedly in the face before it can fire back, and it can only fire back once most of its body is exposed. This is probably one of the worst-designed war machines ever.

There is nothing that PGI can do about that; all they can do is try to polish this **** with MORE quirks... They can't even put more ballistics on it because no Atlas has them. The Atlas is a one-trick pony, and that trick is face-hugging. It's the most dangerous combat technique possible, and so the Atlas has to be viewed as a disposable teammate.

Well, if we could do what some of the art supposes...

I want to do this:



Not this.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 05 December 2014 - 09:22 AM.

[Johnny Z]

QuantumButler, on 05 December 2014 - 07:16 AM, said:

Atlases won't even be great for IS CW, since by then we'll probably have the IS Direwoof King Grab.

Although this is a great balance debate about the two 100 tonners there are more big mechs coming like the KC as you pointed out and the Gargoyle.

I for one dont want another IS mech thats going to be a whipping boy for the Omni mechs in the KC or an OP "I WIN" button in the Gargoyle for the next 6 months. The last few months of Dire Wolf domination has pretty much worn out any welcome for that kind of inbalance and I was one of the lucky ones in having a assault mech that did ok versus the DW.

Durability versus high firepower seems to be some form of balance for these heavy weights since it cant be speed like it is for some of the smaller mechs or even tactics since these heavy weights dont even have that option going for them nearly as easily.........

[Sarlic]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 December 2014 - 09:17 AM, said:

We are equally durable Sarlic, we carry identical armor. He packs more weapons thus can peel more armor off faster. the difference is an illusion.

Correct and true. Lore-wise it's perfect.

Practical: questionable