346 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Escef, on 06 December 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Like I said, the best you are going to get is equal. And most KGC builds will have less firepower than an Atlas because otherwise you waste what makes the KGC different.

I'm not saying the KGC is going to be bad, or not fun, or DoA, or any of that nonsense. I'm just saying that claims of it outgunning an Atlas are poorly thought through.

should be able to out-PP/FLD the Atlas handily.

[Felicitatem Parco]

Andi Nagasia, on 06 December 2014 - 09:26 PM, said:

so with this the DWF Dies, well its been a good run guys,
um so now that IS gets their Uber Dakka can we get some Clan Quirks?
it looks as if it may be able to hold 6AC5s,

and IS is gonna push the Clan back to Arcadia,...

Can't fit more than 4 AC/5 (or more than 4 UAC/5). Remember, IS Autocannons take up more space than Clan Autocannons.

[Sereglach]

KhanCipher, on 06 December 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

so we get the KGC-0000, 000, and 000b.... why couldn't we get the 010 (2 LBX10s in the arms, and 1 PPC + 1 SRM6 in each side torso) which was introduced along side the 000 but it fell out like just about every other star league mech after the 2750, or the 001 (clan buster variant).

Oh and since we're pulling in the 000b (for some reason, even though the 010 technically exists "but doesn't" at this time), why don't we have the BLR-1Gb, STK-3Fb, or the TDR-5Sb, all of which are clearly different from their standard counterparts.

Admittedly, I was really wanting to see the 000, 001, and 010, as well. Regardless, I'm happy with what we're getting. They've done a good job of making each of them quite distinct.

However, I won't be surprised if the Hero has something like the 010 or the 009 for hardpoints, with energy hardpoints in the arms alongside ballistics, or energy and missiles across both torsos. They need to save something for the future.

[Moonlander]

Prosperity Park, on 06 December 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

Can't fit more than 4 AC/5 (or more than 4 UAC/5). Remember, IS Autocannons take up more space than Clan Autocannons.

Even so, 4x IS AC5 > 6x Clan UAC5... imo

[Walluh]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

should be able to out-PP/FLD the Atlas handily.

Easily. Atlas has higher alphas, but King Crabs are way more efficient.

[Escef]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

should be able to out-PP/FLD the Atlas handily.

Oh, absolutely, already noted that. It will also likely do a better job of ranged fighting due to multiple light ACs. Like I said before, realistic evaluations, not crazy off-the-cuff foolishness.

[Alistair Winter]

Escef, on 06 December 2014 - 09:16 PM, said:

Ok, put up some builds. Both of you. Give us a some kind of a KGC build that outguns an Atlas. I don't think you are going to do better than equal without serious compromise or outright ignoring your ballistics.

When it's available on smurfy, I will start a thread and make some comparisons. But keep in mind that my point was simply that you said the Atlas has more firepower than the King Crab. It doesn't. It has exactly the same firepower as the King Crab, except the King Crab has the option to bring a LOT more firepower if you're willing to make a compromise.

It makes no sense to say that the Atlas has more firepower than the King Crab, because it has fewer hardpoints.

And once again, I'd like to point out that the torso twist of the King Crab is a significant factor. Hitting someone with the AC20 is going to be a lot easier with the King Crab than the Atlas. Not to mention the hardpoint location. Instead of having large lasers mounted in those low arms of the Atlas, you can potentially rock 3 LLs or even 3 ER LLs up above your head! Like a CPLT-K2, except the lasers are coming out of a very tiny box on your shoulder, instead of huge CPLT-K2 arms.

On paper, I don't really see a lot of advantages for the Atlas, in terms of firepower. Maybe there aren't any.

[Walluh]

King Crab might have more pinpoint burst, to be fair, but the Atlas is still gonna out brawl it easily. Those manarms.

[HBizzle]

Here are some crazy numbers on this mech, specifically the L build.


If you had a dual ac20, dual LPL build with cooldown mods for both and fast fire unlocked, the DPS would be around 21.5. Wow.

And that is with a 1.3 heat efficiency judging by the build in the quirk page that Sean put up.

NASTY!

Also quad UAC5s with 3 six packs. OMG.

[Brody319]

Walluh, on 06 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

King Crab might have more pinpoint burst, to be fair, but the Atlas is still gonna out brawl it easily. Those manarms.

I think the King Crab has a much better damage potential. I mean with 2 AC 20s and 3 large pulse lasers a single alpha could strip off most of the armor of the Atlas. I don't see any reason to bring an Atlas now to be honest. the King Crab can out DPS and out burst fire the Atlas in almost every way.

[Johnny Z]

My KC envy is out of control. they went to a new levels with the animations. Make a pass on the older mechs!!!!! If the KC gets opening and closing claws give the Orion a flipper or something.

[SilentSooYun]

I'm very pleasantly surprised about how quickly the doors open.
Of course, playing is different from watching...

[Mech Wrench]

I notice too that the crab has some nice high mounted energy hard points to do some nice hill humping work from cover. Unlike any atlas can do. This could be a nice edge for the king crab over the atlas. Output with less exposure. I bet it wont even trigger the enemy radar before you can see and fire a laser or PPC...

[Johnny Z]

Seriously though the walking animation is excellent.

[Escef]

Alistair Winter, on 06 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

It makes no sense to say that the Atlas has more firepower than the King Crab, because it has fewer hardpoints.

I said the KGCs will be packing less firepower, yes. BECAUSE OF THE BALLISTICS. People that ignore the ballistics? Ok, max firepower per hardpoint? 12 per missile hardpoint with SRM6. 11 per energy hardpoint with LPLs. That's 12 tons of missile launchers and 28 tons of lasers for an alpha of 96 for 40 tons of guns, not counting ammo and heat sinks. Or structure. Or armor. Or engine. In fact, if you have 608 armor and a 300XL (not recommended) that would leave you with 13.5 tons left for ammo and heat sinks. 18.5 if you sneak in endo steel. What's that after ammo? 3 tons SRM ammo? Maybe 4? Maybe you can sneak in an AC10? You have an Alpha of 106. And 8.5 tons and 8 crits left for ammo and heat sinks (and 2 engine heat sink slots). You have about 3 points more firepower than an Atlas, with the vulnerability of an XL engine, and atrocious heat management.

I'm going to say this AGAIN. Hard points are not the issue. The issue is not having infinite tonnage (or crits) to work with.

Edited by Escef, 06 December 2014 - 09:56 PM.

[The Wakelord]

Johnny Z, on 06 December 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

Seriously though the walking animation is excellent.

It has the ass-sway of an Atlas

[Bishop Steiner]

Walluh, on 06 December 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

King Crab might have more pinpoint burst, to be fair, but the Atlas is still gonna out brawl it easily. Those manarms.

one to two alpha and you lose your Atlas torso, or are created and lose whatevers in it. Those atlas arms block nothing.

[That Guy]

holy crap. and i mean that in a BAD way

seriously

too many hardpoints. Way too many.

we have weapon quirks now. you do NOT need to make a mech "unique" by simply slapping on 50% more weapon hardpoints than the other mechs in the weight bracket.

Additionally there will soon be movement quirks (at least what you, PGI has said). You can easily make a mech unique with weapon and movement quirks. Give mechs certain qualities. This one has few weapon hardpoints but is quick and nimble for its class. This one has a ton of weapon hardpoints. This one has a few hardpoints but great weapon quirks. This one has a ton of extra armor/internal structure bonus quirks. Mechs can be more than just gunbags.

If a mech has to be a gunbag, it absolutely needs some drawbacks. Make it slow as frozen sh(poo) (turning, acceleration, arm movement, torso movement etc), major negative armor or internal quirks, or negative weapon quirks.

What we have now is just.... absolutely ludicrous.

GG. headdesk

Edited by That Guy, 06 December 2014 - 09:58 PM.

[Escef]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 December 2014 - 09:55 PM, said:

one to two alpha and you lose your Atlas torso, or are created and lose whatevers in it. Those atlas arms block nothing.

One-on-one fight, given comparable builds (brawler vs. brawler, range vs. range) and pilots, I think it really will end up coming down to who sees who first. Either one can and will rip the other a new one.

Edited by Escef, 06 December 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Brody319]

That Guy, on 06 December 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

holy crap. and i mean that in a BAD way

seriously

too many hardpoints. Way too many.

we have weapon quirks now. you do NOT need to make a mech "unique" by simply slapping on 50% more weapon hardpoints than the other mechs in the weight bracket.

Additionally there will soon be movement quirks (at least what you, PGI has said). You can easily make a mech unique with weapon and movement quirks. Give mechs certain qualities. This one has few weapon hardpoints but is quick and nimble for its class. This one has a ton of weapon hardpoints. This one has a few hardpoints but great weapon quirks. This one has a ton of extra armor/internal structure bonus quirks. Mechs can be more than just gunbags.

If a mech has to be a gunbag, it absolutely needs some drawbacks. Make it slow as frozen sh(poo) (turning, acceleration, arm movement, torso movement etc), major negative armor or internal quirks, or negative weapon quirks.

What we have now is just.... absolutely ludicrous.

GG. headdesk

The Direwolf still out guns it. Plus top mounted weapons, Wide arms. Firestarter A Gives the Krab a hug and its pretty much ******. I mean even the mist lynx would be find if it just gave it a hug. has a pretty glaring blind spot like the Stalkers suffer from.

Edited by Brody319, 06 December 2014 - 10:02 PM.