20517 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Sereglach, on 06 October 2016 - 07:51 PM, said:

That's not the "new" or "classic remake" of the Thunderbolt. That's the Primitive Thunderbolt. We've yet to see the new Thunderbolt.

For example . . . Primitive Wasp (first) vs. reimaged Wasp (second)



Although, admittedly, I love the looks of both of those Wasps. However, you can see the similar art style between the two primitive chassis.

Primitives... so...beast wars?
(cuz it still looks like transformers prime, not battletech)

[lagartx3]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

there is very little chance of us seeing a Light as long as they keep the current pricing model

Oh common man, let us dream, there migth be ways, like, including aditional variants, or more unique preorder variants that are decent as with the Marauder IIC

i just want another ligth T_T

[Karl Streiger]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

there is very little chance of us seeing a Light as long as they keep the current pricing model

they could bring the TAG Team - while the ara militaris combination of fire falcon and black lanner doesn't make sense - because of their weird combat style (Clans = Teamwork = OP)

Of course, pricing might need some changes - because at least you get 6 MechBays. You can keep it two packages but add a discount for the second Mech.
For example today the preorder for the FireFalcon - for the usual 20;40;15;70 bucks but when you decide to take the Collector or Ultimate today you get a 50% discount for the BlackLanner Package as soon as it is delivered....

The only tag team in IS - was the Locust and the LongBow.... not going to happen.

Sereglach, on 06 October 2016 - 08:45 PM, said:

In my "pipe-dream" document that I mention above (if I could reshape and reboot Battletech) I actually have rule designs drafted out to have a mech record sheet with two sets of stats on it specifically designed to have more detailed small engagements and more generalized large engagements. The whole thing could fit on a 4"x6" index card.

CBT could still survive in a form if the grognards would just allow CBT and Alpha Strike to be rebuilt in a fashion that works more seamlessly together; and utilizes the massive improvements afforded by a lot of what Alpha Strike did to CBT. The problem is that it'd require a full-on rules reboot.

Lance vs. Lance? Play the CBT styled rules and get nitty-gritty with it.

Battalion vs. Battalion? Play some Alpha Strike styled rules and get the game done in the same time frame.

I think we need to talk, but in a different subforum and topic - just some food for brain;
2x1d10 rather than 2d6 is the way to go

Edited by Karl Streiger, 06 October 2016 - 10:42 PM.

[Odanan]

About the standalone pricing model, I hope the progressive prices of the Heroes Pack suggests PGI might consider to review it (or at least give some discount for a standalone light pack).

What about this?

Fire Moth

• Basic: $15
  
• Collectors: $15
  
• Reinforcements: $10
  
• Hero: $10

or

Wasp + Stinger (with shared 3D/2D resources and same animation - cheaper to develop)

• Basic: $25 (3 Wasps, 3 Stingers)
  
• Collectors: $25 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)
  
• Reinforcements: $20 (2 Wasps, 2 Stingers)
  
• Heroes: $20 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)

The decrease of income could be compensated by the release of a Heroes Pack at the same month.

EDIT: heck, you could even throw the Valkyrie in the pack.

Spoiler

• Basic: $40 (3 Wasps, 3 Stingers, 3 Valkyries)
  
• Collectors: $40 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger, 1 Valkyrie)
  
• Reinforcements: $30 (2 Wasps, 2 Stingers, 2 Valkyries)
  
• Heroes: $30 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger, 1 Valkyrie)

Wasp, Stinger and Valkyrie variants here.

Edited by Odanan, 15 October 2016 - 04:19 PM.

[Clownwarlord]

Odanan, on 29 September 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

Did you guys see that?

Fresh new Clan Hero Mechs.

Best thing for those mechs? Kit Fox gets 4 energy hard points in the side torsos. Everything else underwhelming.

[Clownwarlord]

Odanan, on 07 October 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

About the standalone pricing model, I hope the progressive prices of the Heroes Pack suggests PGI might consider to review it (or at least give some discount for a standalone light pack).

What about this?

Fire Moth

• Basic: $15
  
• Collectors: $15
  
• Reinforcements: $10
  
• Hero: $10

or


Wasp + Stinger (with shared 3D/2D resources - cheaper to develop)

• Basic: $25 (3 Wasps, 3 Stingers)
  
• Collectors: $25 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)
  
• Reinforcements: $20 (2 Wasps, 2 Stingers)
  
• Heroes: $20 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)

The decrease of income could be compensated by the release of a Heroes Pack at the same month.

50 bucks for 1 chassis ... I like that I get 2 CBill bonus mechs but knock $10.00 off the complete package and you got a deal.

Wasp + Stinger ... $90.00 ... Knock off $10.00 again I can sorta get behind this but not sure. Lets just take a look at the Phoenix package for the big deal $80.00 you got 4 Cbill bonus mechs and 12 total mechs ... this you get 4 CBill bonus mechs and 14 mechs. I like it but is it worth the $10 extra? I say no.

[Odanan]

Clownwarlord, on 07 October 2016 - 04:12 AM, said:

Best thing for those mechs? Kit Fox gets 4 energy hard points in the side torsos. Everything else underwhelming.

Indeed.

Looking the other way, except the Kitfox, none of the others could be considered P2W (which is kind of a good thing?).

Anyway, I hoped the Warhawk hero had jumpjets (Diana's Warhawk would have)... maybe in a couple of years we get some duplicated hero mechs? (like the Butterbee for the Catapult)

Edited by Odanan, 07 October 2016 - 04:36 AM.

[CycKath]

Karl Streiger, on 04 October 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

I really look forward with fear and joy to see the new catalyst Thunderbolt.

While we haven't seen the line-art version, back at GenCon Catalyst had prints of the combined First Succession War/Second Succession War cover images including the new-style Thunderbolt.

[Sereglach]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

Primitives... so...beast wars?
(cuz it still looks like transformers prime, not battletech)

To each their own. I still really like the way the primitive versions of a lot of the old unseen looked. One way or another, even if I like the true reimaged stuff more, the primitive versions I personally think are leagues beyond the "Project Phoenix" versions of the same mechs.

Odanan, on 07 October 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

About the standalone pricing model, I hope the progressive prices of the Heroes Pack suggests PGI might consider to review it (or at least give some discount for a standalone light pack).

What about this?

Fire Moth

• Basic: $15
  
• Collectors: $15
  
• Reinforcements: $10
  
• Hero: $10

or

Wasp + Stinger (with shared 3D/2D resources - cheaper to develop)

• Basic: $25 (3 Wasps, 3 Stingers)
  
• Collectors: $25 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)
  
• Reinforcements: $20 (2 Wasps, 2 Stingers)
  
• Heroes: $20 (1 Wasp, 1 Stinger)

The decrease of income could be compensated by the release of a Heroes Pack at the same month.

Some big issues there:

1. We got light heroes long before this pricing model; and even a 35 ton light mech was still only about $12-13 MC if you're only buying the cheapest and least efficient MC packages. Other lights are obviously significantly cheaper. Why pay even $10 on a -preorder- (supposedly discounted to help fund development) on what is essentially just a reskin and slightly different hardpoints vs. the standard versions of the mechs. Wait for them to come out for MC and go on sale . . . much bigger discount and more bang-for-buck.

2. The pricing scheme is inherently flawed when you've told people they can preorder 100 ton assaults for $20 for 3 standard variants but then tell them that you want them to pay $20 for 3 standard 20 ton variants. PGI shot themselves in the foot here when they decided they wanted to cater to the "I want to only pay $20 for my assault package a-la-carte like the guy who only needs to pay $20 for the intro light in the package" back when they were doing tiered packages. Now they're suffering for it and are too scared to do what they need to do to fix it. They can either drop the lights to $5 (5 light, 10 medium, 15 heavy, 20 assault) and suck it up -OR- PGI needs to admit their mistake and jack the price of the Assaults up to be more comparable in discount. Assaults can pre-order for over 75% off in price with a full slew of pre-orders (Collectors + Hero + Reinforcements) while lights and mediums are screwed by basically paying what they'd cost for retail MC purchases in game.

3. While the "double up" pack is a bit more reasonable, you still run into the same problems mentioned in 1 and 2 above. However, if you shave off the extra $5 from each of those purchase levels, then you're looking at something more comparable in discount value.

4. If all mechs cost the same amount to develop then PGI needs to verbally explain that to the community and come up with some reason to make a light mech just as valuable as a heavy or assault mech . . . but that'd require a lot of balancing work from PGI resulting in some serious changes in their pricing scheme. However, I don't believe that they cost just as much for even a second, because there's a lot less volume and a lot less mech to model, texture, camo-template, etc. Therefore PGI needs to drop the cost of light and medium packages -in particular- to be more competitive pricing.

Edited by Sereglach, 07 October 2016 - 07:08 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

CycKath, on 07 October 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

Nice - this looks good at the first glance

[Odanan]

CycKath, on 07 October 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

While we haven't seen the line-art version, back at GenCon Catalyst had prints of the combined First Succession War/Second Succession War cover images including the new-style Thunderbolt.

Oh this is very good!

[Virlutris]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 October 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

ftfy
[Urbie Hero signal boost]

Now, I wouldn't mind that, but I believe you've fixed that for you

Personally, I actually do want the Panther hero because I like the Panthers. Urbie Hero will be cool when it arrives, but I honestly want the Panther hero first. Dunno that I'll get it, but a geek can hope. I could maybe go for a Grasshopper hero someday soon, too.

Urbie came along after Wave 2 and Res 1, right? I'd be okay doing those first. We waited years for the coming of Urbie, and it was coolness. Urbie is patient, it is we who must learn that the slow roll is the best roll. Panther is "only" twice as fast, stock. Maybe it's the herald of Urbie?

[Bishop Steiner]

Karl Streiger, on 06 October 2016 - 10:40 PM, said:

they could bring the TAG Team - while the ara militaris combination of fire falcon and black lanner doesn't make sense - because of their weird combat style (Clans = Teamwork = OP)

Karl, we've addressed the Tag Team fallacy in here and other places before. The issue is, it costs PGI the same amount of time and resources to make a Light Mech as a Heavy or Assault. Therefore making a model they can sell for 10 or even 15 dollars a chassis, vs one they can sell for 20, simply is bad business. (at least short term. It might work out better over a long term, but PGI has never been about the long game)

They might get some sales for something like a Stinger/Wasp pack, and might be able to work it some because of some shared assets in the models (could even say the same for the Valkyrie, potentially).. but even nostalgia mech sales are seeming to be on the wane, as PGI has done too good a job driving most of the last of us TT guys off through their apathy.

We see a scaling price on the Clan Heroes pack because those assets already existed, aside from the skins, and because Heroes have always had a scaling price. (Though this begs the question, will existing heroes so be on the same price scale as the new Clan Ones, or will the PGI store continue to be a patchwork Frankenstein's monster of pricing?)

I would love nothing more that to see a Wasp/Stinger two pack. In fact my "Dream Pack" in that regard?

Stinger/Wasp
-Base Pack: 30$
-Collecters: +20$
-Reinforcements: VALKYRIE +15$
-Heroes: +10$ (for each of 3, Stinger, Wasp, Valkyrie)

And add the Valkyrie as a Standalone for the normal 20$

Is it the ideal super socialist player friendly pack price some demand? No. It's also not PGIs pricing model. It's a compromise between the two, that IMO only works because you could likely share about 75% of basic assets between these three chassis, and in fact, MIGHT be able to use some existing Phoenix Hawk assets.

And even then you'd gt those complaining that "Lego mech laziness" is further proof of PGI's "End of Days".

Odanan, on 07 October 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

Oh this is very good!

I'm not in love with some of Shim's proportions, but I like all the basic details.

Sereglach, on 07 October 2016 - 07:07 AM, said:

To each their own. I still really like the way the primitive versions of a lot of the old unseen looked. One way or another, even if I like the true reimaged stuff more, the primitive versions I personally think are leagues beyond the "Project Phoenix" versions of the same mechs.

While there are 2-3 Project Phoenix Reseen I feel are underrated and have potential (with judicious work by a better artist), to me it's not much of a comparison point as the PP aesthetics are also, IMO anti-Battletech, in general with all the busy little projections, thingymabobs, etc, and the super sleek look to things, etc.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 October 2016 - 09:10 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

CycKath, on 07 October 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

While we haven't seen the line-art version, back at GenCon Catalyst had prints of the combined First Succession War/Second Succession War cover images including the new-style Thunderbolt.

It looks good.
But i think i prefer the MWO version of the Thunderbolt if only for the way the LRM drum and cockpit are placed. I know this is closer to the original TRO design, but i just really like the LRM drum actually being on the Right Torso.

I do, however, much prefer the Humanoid fists and HUGE HONKING CANNON on the right arm as opposed to the Grabby claws and the pitiful plain rectangle laser we have in MWO.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 07 October 2016 - 09:13 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 October 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

It looks good.
But i think i prefer the MWO version of the Thunderbolt if only for the way the LRM drum and cockpit are placed. I know this is closer to the original TRO design, but i just really like the LRM drum actually being on the Right Torso.

I do, however, much prefer the Humanoid fists and HUGE HONKING CANNON on the right arm as opposed to the Grabby claws and the pitiful plain rectangle laser we have in MWO.

i think... for me it's something about the lower legs and the sloping wrists leading to the fists... just has a very 80s Lego Mech vibe (like gen 1 transformers, etc. I know that transition is in the original too, but it seems more..organic on the Loose version) that detract from other aspects of it I really like. Just like the Griffins facebowl seems to lose some of the old "Dome" look of the original 3025 art, and be more true to the Dougram Roundfacer look.. which I don't think is actually an improvement.

But that's art for you...totally subjective.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 07 October 2016 - 09:51 AM.

[Steinar Bergstol]

I do like the new CGL 'bolt a lot, more so in fact than the look of the MWO version (even if the missile drum is on the wrong side according to the record sheets), but I still like the original design best. And I fully admit I'm very much biased here as the Thunderbolt (or whatever it was called in those model kits) was the first ever Revell Robotech Defenders modelkit I bough. I think the kit was titled "Strike Force" and it came with the mech and an attack helicopter. I absolutely loved the squat, brutal look of that model and it has probably made me unfairly critical of any change to that design.

[xSONOHx]

Annihilator already, come on PGI pls. :c

We have the Urbanmech, why not ANH?

[RestosIII]

xSONOHx, on 12 October 2016 - 01:22 PM, said:

Annihilator already, come on PGI pls. :c

We have the Urbanmech, why not ANH?

Because they made it impossible to have the quad Gauss and penta Gauss builds.

[xSONOHx]

RestosIII, on 12 October 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

Because they made it impossible to have the quad Gauss and penta Gauss builds.

I'd personally go for the ACs and mixed builds with it. You could possibly try firing the gauss in rapid succession also.

Edited by xSONOHx, 12 October 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[RestosIII]

xSONOHx, on 12 October 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

I'd personally go for the ACs and mixed builds with it. You could possibly try firing the gauss in rapid succession also.

Remember, they made it so you straight up couldn't equip more than 2 goose waffles on a mech at a time. So it's DEFINATELY dead.