20517 replies to this topic

[Ovion]

Juodas Varnas, on 07 January 2017 - 06:13 AM, said:

You know why.

[Sereglach]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

The Quads (3 of them I think all told) were removed, because lets be honest - they simply aren't possible.

Oh, I thought you were leaving quads on the list, at a glance, because the Snow Fox is on it; and that's a quad. Otherwise, still really nice reference list.

[AppleseeN]

Ovion, on 06 January 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

This is a list of ALL mechs available (in the currently established timeline of 3053) for the Inner Sphere and Clans.

139 possible Inner Sphere Mechs (33 Light, 40 Medium, 35 Heavy, 31 Assault) _{With another 27 possible Inner Sphere (6 Light, 8 Medium, 8 Heavy, 5 Assault) expanding to 3055}
and 58 possible Clan Mechs (14 Light, 17 Medium, 14 Heavy, 13 Assault) _{With another 1 possible Inner Sphere (1 Assault) expanding to 3055}

You forgot that this list is Tech Level 3 TRO rules. You better post Tech Level 2 TRO plust to that... What it means?

IS - 37 Lights, 51 Medium, 42 Heavy, 40 Assaults from which 15 is 100 tons heavy)))
CLans - 21 Lights, 23 Medium, 20 Heavy, 17 Assaults

To the TRO 3055. How about that?

[Juodas Varnas]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 07:30 AM, said:

You know why.

[AppleseeN]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

The Quads (3 of them I think all told) were removed, because lets be honest - they simply aren't possible.

Even if Russ hadn't stated they simply weren't touching it, it's not economically viable.
It'd take as much if not more work to implement than the Clans did, and yield the grand total of 3-15 mechs if we don't go past 3100.

And yeah - I wasn't looking at the specific mechs when making the chart.
I simply took all variants available, sorted them by name, left the earliest year of each mechs availability _{(grouping the same 3 letter identifier for variants, like the Hatamoto and such)}, then stripped out all the ones in MWO and all the quads.

_{(This is doubly useful for me, as I play TT up to 3055 xD).}

Getting the weapons for the timeline we're missing would be great too.

Just for those of you interested, here's some more and some 'full' charts in spoilers:

Spoiler

All Mechs to 3055


All Variants to 3055


All weapons (Colour Coded to MWO availability)


Weapons realistically available in MWO 3053:

Ehm... you forgot to add to list from TRO1945 such things as Large Heavy Rifle (18 DMG/9 Heat/15 tons/7CSR/ range 1300 metres(47hex)) and ER LHR (18 DMG/9Heat/16 tons/7CSR/(57nex)1800 metres).

[Ovion]

Sereglach, on 07 January 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

Oh, I thought you were leaving quads on the list, at a glance, because the Snow Fox is on it; and that's a quad. Otherwise, still really nice reference list.

Ah, thought I'd got em all. xD
That's literally just my bad.

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

You forgot that this list is Tech Level 3 TRO rules. You better post Tech Level 2 TRO plust to that... What it means?

IS - 37 Lights, 51 Medium, 42 Heavy, 40 Assaults from which 15 is 100 tons heavy)))
CLans - 21 Lights, 23 Medium, 20 Heavy, 17 Assaults

To the TRO 3055. How about that?

PGI's requirements are simply 'One Mech available in 3053' atm.
Limiting it to JUST TRO3055 is a bit meh.
This is just all mechs.

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Ehm... you forgot to add to list from TRO1945 such things as Large Heavy Rifle (18 DMG/9 Heat/15 tons/7CSR/ range 1300 metres(47hex)) and ER LHR (18 DMG/9Heat/16 tons/7CSR/(57nex)1800 metres).

Hrm - I didn't see those on Sarna...
I must look into such things.

[Sereglach]

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

Ehm... you forgot to add to list from TRO1945 such things as Large Heavy Rifle (18 DMG/9 Heat/15 tons/7CSR/ range 1300 metres(47hex)) and ER LHR (18 DMG/9Heat/16 tons/7CSR/(57nex)1800 metres).

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

Hrm - I didn't see those on Sarna...
I must look into such things.

Oh for the love of . . . TRO 1945 was literally an April Fools Joke made to allow some form of gameplay between WWII miniatures and Battletech miniatures. Why? Reasons, that's why (and because it's absurd and funny). Everything in that TRO is ABSOLUTELY NOT CANON as per the words of the developers on their own forums.

It. Was. A. Joke. Book. Every time I see people trying to reference the TRO1945 book (or any of the other April Fools books) as some form of canon or gameplay compatibility consideration that people need to consider it makes me wish (as the developers have sometimes wished) that those April Fools books were never created.

[AppleseeN]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

PGI's requirements are simply 'One Mech available in 3053' atm.
Limiting it to JUST TRO3055 is a bit meh.
This is just all mechs.

Hrm - I didn't see those on Sarna...
I must look into such things.

The things are mouch simple... Sarna uses TR Level 3, FASA times both TR Level 2 and TR Level 3 was avaliable, now only TR Level 3 alowed.

That's why here is just:

Light Rifle - dmg 3
Medium Rifle - dmg 6
Heavy Rifle - dmg 9

No more info about:

Large Rifle - dmg 13
Large Heavy Rifle - dmg 18 which where used before Gauss was introduced. ERLHR actually have same range as GR, but a bit powerfull and a bit hotter. If we have TRO1945/TRO1950 introduced in MWO, some Clans'll cry about IS OPness.
That's why we don't have such models like HGN-672, HGN-694-2B... DVS-1A or 1R, NOC/WME-2B or 2K))))))

[AppleseeN]

Sereglach, on 07 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Oh for the love of . . . TRO 1945 was literally an April Fools Joke made to allow some form of gameplay between WWII miniatures and Battletech miniatures. Why? Reasons, that's why (and because it's absurd and funny). Everything in that TRO is ABSOLUTELY NOT CANON as per the words of the developers on their own forums.

It. Was. A. Joke. Book. Every time I see people trying to reference the TRO1945 book (or any of the other April Fools books) as some form of canon or gameplay compatibility consideration that people need to consider it makes me wish (as the developers have sometimes wished) that those April Fools books were never created.

Did I said it's an CANON? Where? I said about TR Level 2... which are not alowed in official competition. But, not alowed doesn't mean it's not existing.

[Ovion]

Sereglach, on 07 January 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

Oh for the love of . . . TRO 1945 was literally an April Fools Joke made to allow some form of gameplay between WWII miniatures and Battletech miniatures. Why? Reasons, that's why (and because it's absurd and funny). Everything in that TRO is ABSOLUTELY NOT CANON as per the words of the developers on their own forums.

It. Was. A. Joke. Book. Every time I see people trying to reference the TRO1945 book (or any of the other April Fools books) as some form of canon or gameplay compatibility consideration that people need to consider it makes me wish (as the developers have sometimes wished) that those April Fools books were never created.

Which would be why it wasn't on Sarna.
You saved me a search. xD

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Did I said it's an CANON? Where? I said about TR Level 2... which are not alowed in official competition. But, not alowed doesn't mean it's not existing.

But, it does mean it's not applicable for my Canon lists, and additionally what would be able to get into MWO.

[AppleseeN]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 09:18 AM, said:

Which would be why it wasn't on Sarna.
You saved me a search. xD

But, it does mean it's not applicable for my Canon lists, and additionally what would be able to get into MWO.

Opponent forgot to say that Rifles where used in TRO2800 during Age of War and Age of Successors)))))))))
Which is... ooopppsss... a CANON Carl)))

[Sereglach]

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Did I said it's an CANON? Where? I said about TR Level 2... which are not alowed in official competition. But, not alowed doesn't mean it's not existing.

MWO is considered canon for the Battletech universe in terms of mechs and builds. CGL has stated as much directly (which is why the Roughneck has been given the canon blessing by CGL and is now an official Battletech Mech). Thusly, as Ovion stated, anything non-canon is not eligible for mention for use in MWO.

The weapons you're referencing that are only in TRO 1945 were joke-weapons created by CGL for the purpose of providing some semblance of joke compatability and balance between WWII units and Battletech units for kicks and giggles.

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Opponent forgot to say that Rifles where used in TRO2800 during Age of War and Age of Successors)))))))))
Which is... ooopppsss... a CANON Carl)))

. . . and you're forgetting to mention that I'm specifically referencing the items found only within the TRO 1945 non-canon joke book. Are you really going to get that petty?

Edited by Sereglach, 07 January 2017 - 09:28 AM.

[AppleseeN]

Sereglach, on 07 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

MWO is considered canon for the Battletech universe in terms of mechs and builds.

Spartan, Pillager and Nightstar please or... gtfo "so CANON"-Lovers. MWO just litteraly CAN NOT BE CANON... by first and simple thing. Tell US then what is the C-ERPPC stats are in CANON and in game?



Btw, all types of Rifles are used in Age of War and Age of Successors... including HR, LR, LHR and ERLHR.

Edited by AppleseeN, 07 January 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sereglach, on 07 January 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Are you really going to get that petty?

Hi, welcome to the internet.

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 09:44 AM, said:

Spartan, Pillager and Nightstar please or... gtfo "so CANON"-Lovers. MWO just litteraly CAN NOT BE CANON... by first and simple thing. Tell US then what is the C-ERPPC stats are in CANON and in game?

Look! A troll! How rare!

[Sereglach]

AppleseeN, on 07 January 2017 - 09:22 AM, said:

Opponent forgot to say that Rifles where used in TRO2800 during Age of War and Age of Successors)))))))))
Which is... ooopppsss... a CANON Carl)))

Oh, as a note, since this TRO didn't click to me in any way . . . I did a little research. TRO 2800 is not a canon book at all. It's a fan made TRO that's hosted on several fan sites (like "ourbattletech", "battletechuniverse" and "heavymetalpro" from what I can see at a glance). So, again, it's a non-canon TRO and has no bearing on anything even eligible for MWO.

Otherwise, I think Bishop nailed it; and admittedly I shouldn't have bothered asking.

Bishop Steiner, on 07 January 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

Look! A troll! How rare!

No kidding.

[Brain Cancer]

Heavy rifles were, much like rocket launchers a Periphery-tech weapon system that eventually found it's way back to use in the Inner Sphere. Canonically speaking, it's an Age of War weapon system as far as when you saw it widely used on combat vehicles.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Estevez (which actually comes from a real BT TRO, not fanmade stuff)

While obsolete, even with BT rules a heavy rifle will still chew a pretty darn good sized divot in a target. As MWO doubles armor, all you'd have to do is halve the armor damage penalty and voila, canon ballistic weapon system that fits into the timeline and fills a gap between the MG and AC. It wouldn't even need any new mechanics- the MG does reduced damage vs armor, and rifles fire a single projectile like MWO AC's do anyway.

[Sereglach]

Brain Cancer, on 08 January 2017 - 07:32 PM, said:

Heavy rifles were, much like rocket launchers a Periphery-tech weapon system that eventually found it's way back to use in the Inner Sphere. Canonically speaking, it's an Age of War weapon system as far as when you saw it widely used on combat vehicles.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Estevez (which actually comes from a real BT TRO, not fanmade stuff)

While obsolete, even with BT rules a heavy rifle will still chew a pretty darn good sized divot in a target. As MWO doubles armor, all you'd have to do is halve the armor damage penalty and voila, canon ballistic weapon system that fits into the timeline and fills a gap between the MG and AC. It wouldn't even need any new mechanics- the MG does reduced damage vs armor, and rifles fire a single projectile like MWO AC's do anyway.

Wrong weapons. I'm not disputing the basic series of rifles. The weapons in dispute are the Large Heavy Rifle and the Extended Range Large Heavy Rifle brought up by AppleseeN for use from the TRO1945. Those weapons are, in fact, non-canon equipment. They were created, again, for the TRO1945 April Fools book as a joke to allow WWII tabletop miniatures to participate in a wargame alongside Battletech units for kicks and giggles. They were also apparently picked up and used in the non-canon TRO2800 book, which is a fan creation.

Those are non-canon weapons, without any doubts. The basic series of Rifles, the Light Rifle, Medium Rifle, and Heavy Rifle are not being brought into question here. You missed some key points from earlier in the conversation and/or didn't pick up on the context, no offense.

Edited by Sereglach, 09 January 2017 - 09:04 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Sereglach, on 08 January 2017 - 10:15 PM, said:

Those are non-canon weapons, without any doubts. The basic series of Rifles, the Light Rifle, Medium Rifle, and Heavy Rifle are not being brought into question here. You missed some key points from earlier in the conversation and/or didn't pick up on the context, no offense.

I did have either some issues to get the key points of this "Rifle" discussion. Was there a Extended Range Large Heavy Rifle?
I don't think so - afaik the biggest gun counted as Medium Rifle.

I don't think we need to talk about Rifles and their usability in MWO either, same goes for Rocket Launchers.

[Zergling]

TRO1945 didn't have anything described as 'Large Heavy Rifle' or 'Extended Range Large Heavy Rifle'.

Here's the weapon tables it has:




I'm pretty sure the 'LHR' and 'ERLHR' are entirely fan made inventions, probably from that TRO2800 fan book.

Edited by Zergling, 09 January 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Zergling, on 09 January 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

TRO1945 didn't have anything described as 'Large Heavy Rifle' or 'Extended Range Large Heavy Rifle'.

Here's the weapon tables it has:




I'm pretty sure the 'LHR' and 'ERLHR' are entirely fan made inventions, probably from that TRO2800 fan book.

Mmmmmmm. "Vintage" Machine Guns.... Sounds like just the ticket for my Classy Urbie. A pair of Vickers in .303 sound simply marvelous!