20517 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 January 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Odd, why is the Jenner only 1.22 then? Should be able to use a 340 which still leaves it below Commando speed.

Because consistency isn't PGI's strong suit (i'm note sure what is PGI's strong suit, to be honest).
Funnily enough, Wolfhound-1 has a higher engine cap than the Jenner, even though it has a smaller engine stock. (210 stock, max engine 315. (Jenner IIC also has a higher engine cap than the IS jenners, as if it wasn't better in every possible way already, HA)

PGI gonna PGI.

[Gas Guzzler]

Juodas Varnas, on 05 January 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

(Jenner IIC also has a higher engine cap than the IS jenners, as if it wasn't better in every possible way already, HA)

PGI gonna PGI.

Well... it does come with that engine stock, so that isn't really on PGI. Really, it should have an engine cap of 340 as well, just under the Commando (engine limit) speed.

[Juodas Varnas]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 January 2017 - 11:52 AM, said:

Well... it does come with that engine stock, so that isn't really on PGI. Really, it should have an engine cap of 340 as well, just under the Commando (engine limit) speed.

Well, i'm just saying that they should've buffed IS jenners with the IIC jenner release so they could at least be REMOTELY competitive.

Honestly, the whole engine-cap "system" they have going on is absolute garbage and makes very little sense.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 05 January 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 05 January 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

Russ is with pneumonia and will announce next week a Townhall. (maybe that's what is delaying the next light mech announcement)

Well there you go.

[Ovion]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 January 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

Odd, why is the Jenner only 1.22 then? Should be able to use a 340 which still leaves it below Commando speed.

... yeah, as above - inconsistent.

The Locust is only around 1.2 as well.

They need to pick something and stick with it.
Be it a flat 1.2, or +/- 50, or whatever.
Consistency helps.

[Metus regem]

Ovion, on 05 January 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

... yeah, as above - inconsistent.

The Locust is only around 1.2 as well.

They need to pick something and stick with it.
Be it a flat 1.2, or +/- 50, or whatever.
Consistency helps.

That could be applied to most things MWO related....

[Uncle Totty]

Odanan, on 03 January 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

BTW, all my chips on the Fire Moth tomorrow (Jan, 4th).

So, how soon can we see those chips come in?

Edited by Uncle Totty, 05 January 2017 - 03:10 PM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Uncle Totty, on 05 January 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

Son how soon can we see those chips come in!

I hope it's potato chips.

I could go for a Pringles packet.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 05 January 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

*snip*

Fair enough. However, one thing to mainly consider . . . game populations. CGL's official Battletech forums can't get 7k members in the number of years that I've been keeping tabs on it (I was amazed when they finally broke 6k). However, MWO, despite all of its problems, is steadily -albeit slowly- moving towards 700k members. While it doesn't tell us exactly what the previous video games' populations were like, it can give us a good idea of how the mediums' popularity stand. With MWO having over 100x the forum population, in an age when pretty much anyone can hop online and access a forum/venue related to their games/hobbies of choice, I think we can see where the popularity lies and where most people's nostalgia and mech experiences come from.

That said, the fact that the Spector hasn't been in any MechWarrior game and the Mongoose only had a token appearance in MW2: Mercenaries probably stands to show why they're not very high on most people's wish list.

. . .

I still want a Mongoose, dammit.

[TheArisen]

Sereglach, on 05 January 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Fair enough. However, one thing to mainly consider . . . game populations. CGL's official Battletech forums can't get 7k members in the number of years that I've been keeping tabs on it (I was amazed when they finally broke 6k). However, MWO, despite all of its problems, is steadily -albeit slowly- moving towards 700k members. While it doesn't tell us exactly what the previous video games' populations were like, it can give us a good idea of how the mediums' popularity stand. With MWO having over 100x the forum population, in an age when pretty much anyone can hop online and access a forum/venue related to their games/hobbies of choice, I think we can see where the popularity lies and where most people's nostalgia and mech experiences come from.

That said, the fact that the Spector hasn't been in any MechWarrior game and the Mongoose only had a token appearance in MW2: Mercenaries probably stands to show why they're not very high on most people's wish list.

. . .

I still want a Mongoose, dammit.

I'd easily buy a Mongoose even though I'm not a light pilot usually.

[Karl Streiger]

Sereglach, on 05 January 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Fair enough. However, one thing to mainly consider . . . game populations. CGL's official Battletech forums can't get 7k members in the number of years that I've been keeping tabs on it (I was amazed when they finally broke 6k). However, MWO, despite all of its problems, is steadily -albeit slowly- moving towards 700k members. While it doesn't tell us exactly what the previous video games' populations were like, it can give us a good idea of how the mediums' popularity stand. With MWO having over 100x the forum population, in an age when pretty much anyone can hop online and access a forum/venue related to their games/hobbies of choice, I think we can see where the popularity lies and where most people's nostalgia and mech experiences come from.

That said, the fact that the Spector hasn't been in any MechWarrior game and the Mongoose only had a token appearance in MW2: Mercenaries probably stands to show why they're not very high on most people's wish list.

. . .

I still want a Mongoose, dammit.

A pitty, Spector as well as the Talon are 3058 Mechs very adequate, Stockwhile not as vanilla as Clan Mechs from this TRO.
Howver - with exception of the ECM for the Spector I don't see any additional gain by those Mechs - sure the Spector looks compact enough so it might become a humanoid light without the size of a Wolfhound.
The Raven is already the better Talon.
Mongoose, however would add a 25t Energy boat - really depends on hitboxes but i expect the tiny locust to be still the better.

However without major chances and finaly Rolewarfare there is no need for more lights -

[FLG 01]

The Spector with its combination of ECM, JJ, many energy hardpoints, high engine cap, and compact build has everything a good light Mech needs.
The Mongoose would be about as big as the Commando or perhaps a little smaller, while featuring more energy HP and overall better variants. Have a look at the MON-76 e.g. with its MASC and ECM. It lacks JJ but other than that it is a good candidate.

My point is the heavy selection bias of the aforementioned poll. Bias, as natural as it may be, is not a good thing. We all have it and we all should strive to overcome it, not hide behind it. Unchecked bias leads to ignorance and does not make the game better. (Btw., the best-seller of MWO was apparently the Marauder, a Mech which was not featured in MW:4 nor in MW:3. So the inclusion in one of those titles is by no means a must).

Again, I can only invite people to explore the vast world of BattleTech. Even an old BattleTech-fan can learn new things all the time. It is a wonderful source for possible Mechs - if you only dare to broaden your horizon.

Edited by FLG 01, 06 January 2017 - 08:14 AM.

[Sereglach]

FLG 01, on 06 January 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

(Btw., the best-seller of MWO was apparently the Marauder, a Mech which was not featured in MW:4 nor in MW:3. So the inclusion in one of those titles is by no means a must).

Nope, but it was in MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat, and it was also in the original MechWarrior. In addition, the Marauder was a key mech in Crescent Hawks Revenge and likely the mech Jason Youngblood (aka your main character) would be driving for your lead position through the second half of the game. Not to mention, it was one of the first MekTek mechs released in MW4: Mercenaries . . . which is a worthwhile note to make.

Thusly, the Marauder has had a LOT of presence in the earliest of the MechWarrior and Battletech video games which would allow it to invoke quite a bit of nostalgia from that player base.

Same goes for the Warhammer, Rifleman, and Phoenix Hawk (only the Phoenix Hawk did not have a presence in MW2, but played a large role in the other games mentioned) . . . all of which invoked quite a bit of nostalgia and excitement for release. However, the lack of the Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, and Longbow in any of those games is probably a notable reason why they weren't pushed out as part of the "must have" reimaged classics (though many were later additions to MekTek).

While it's all well and good for people to expand their horizons and explore all that Battletech has to offer, also don't be surprised when people are naturally gravitating to the mechs they have fond memories of regardless of how good something else might be. You can tell people exactly how awesome a mech like the Spector could be in MWO, but don't be surprised or upset when they look at you and go, "What's a Spector? Never heard of it. Why the hell do I want that over a Firefly or (insert nostalgia mech here)?" with a raised eyebrow (note: I personally hate the Firefly). Then, when you tell them the amazing stats a mech like the Spector could have and just how amazingly meta the mech could be, don't be surprised when people say, "So? PGI will just quirk the Firefly or (insert nostalgia mech here) so it is awesome regardless."

[Odanan]

Sereglach, on 06 January 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Nope, but it was in MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat, and it was also in the original MechWarrior. In addition, the Marauder was a key mech in Crescent Hawks Revenge and likely the mech Jason Youngblood (aka your main character) would be driving for your lead position through the second half of the game. Not to mention, it was one of the first MekTek mechs released in MW4: Mercenaries . . . which is a worthwhile note to make.

Thusly, the Marauder has had a LOT of presence in the earliest of the MechWarrior and Battletech video games which would allow it to invoke quite a bit of nostalgia from that player base.

Same goes for the Warhammer, Rifleman, and Phoenix Hawk (only the Phoenix Hawk did not have a presence in MW2, but played a large role in the other games mentioned) . . . all of which invoked quite a bit of nostalgia and excitement for release. However, the lack of the Wasp, Stinger, Crusader, and Longbow in any of those games is probably a notable reason why they weren't pushed out as part of the "must have" reimaged classics (though many were later additions to MekTek).

While it's all well and good for people to expand their horizons and explore all that Battletech has to offer, also don't be surprised when people are naturally gravitating to the mechs they have fond memories of regardless of how good something else might be. You can tell people exactly how awesome a mech like the Spector could be in MWO, but don't be surprised or upset when they look at you and go, "What's a Spector? Never heard of it. Why the hell do I want that over a Firefly or (insert nostalgia mech here)?" with a raised eyebrow (note: I personally hate the Firefly). Then, when you tell them the amazing stats a mech like the Spector could have and just how amazingly meta the mech could be, don't be surprised when people say, "So? PGI will just quirk the Firefly or (insert nostalgia mech here) so it is awesome regardless."

Well, there are several niches of Battletech fans.

For those who started in the 80's and early 90's, like me, nothing can beat the classics in popularity. The mechs in the first real Battletech edition (which usually share the design of Japanese anime) are the most iconic in the franchise, followed only by a few later mechs, like the Atlas and the first invading Clan mechs (most notably, the Timber Wolf).

Personally, I don't care about anything after the Refusal War, so the 3060+ mechs don't mean much to me.

[FLG 01]

There are niches of BattleTech indeed. I for one am a fan of Star League designs due to my early fascination with pre-schism ComStar, hence my interest for Mechs like the Crab, the Spector or the Nightstar.

But I know there is more to the franchise. And even if I had come across the Gunslinger e.g. before, it was this forum that made me realize it would be a good choice for the game and it got me interested in its lore. When in doubt I may still go for my old favourites, but I would not exclude the Gunslinger arbitrarily from polls – and certainly not in favour of utterly useless Mechs like the Strider.

And that is my point. Someone who sets up a poll has a responsibility which a mere voter does not have. You may vote for whatever Mech you like for whatever reason you like. And it is not like I would be "surprised" about people voting for the Annihilator...
But with a poll arbitrarily limiting the options, the chance to increase of awareness of less well known Mechs is actively denied. And that is what I resent, besides the terribad options presented there.

[Ovion]

This is a list of ALL mechs available (in the currently established timeline of 3053) for the Inner Sphere and Clans.

139 possible Inner Sphere Mechs (33 Light, 40 Medium, 35 Heavy, 31 Assault) _{With another 27 possible Inner Sphere (6 Light, 8 Medium, 8 Heavy, 5 Assault) expanding to 3055}
and 58 possible Clan Mechs (14 Light, 17 Medium, 14 Heavy, 13 Assault) _{With another 1 possible Inner Sphere (1 Assault) expanding to 3055}

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 06 January 2017 - 03:15 PM, said:

Well, there are several niches of Battletech fans.

For those who started in the 80's and early 90's, like me, nothing can beat the classics in popularity. The mechs in the first real Battletech edition (which usually share the design of Japanese anime) are the most iconic in the franchise, followed only by a few later mechs, like the Atlas and the first invading Clan mechs (most notably, the Timber Wolf).

Personally, I don't care about anything after the Refusal War, so the 3060+ mechs don't mean much to me.

Pretty similar background and likes, there. My first TT game was in the early 90's and was a ~3025 TT RP Game. Shortly before getting into TT Battletech (and what drew me to it) I was introduced to Battletech through the "PowerHits: Battletech" CD released in '92 by Activision.

Those experiences definitely helped shape what mechs I love the most. After all, my first TT mech ever was a FS9-H Firestarter and no other chassis has ever quite struck me the same since then . . . I've always been a pyro.

FLG 01, on 06 January 2017 - 04:00 PM, said:

. . . certainly not in favour of utterly useless Mechs like the Strider.

I agree with pretty much all the points you're making, but just want to bring up a point in regards to this statement.

Given all of PGI's other changes to canon mechs (leg weapons, -Pod weapons, melee weapons, C3, etc.), I can absolutely see them making changes to the pretty outwardly bad IS Omnimechs like the Strider.

Looking at all of the canon loadouts for the Strider, it's only got 1 fixed external heatsink in the left leg and never remotely fills its crits. PGI could easily turn it into a DHS mech and shove the extra heat sink into either torso (possibly moving Endo Steel crits to the arms in the process) and have absolutely zero problems.

While it's still probably not a great choice for MWO, don't be surprised if PGI pulls a PGI to "force" the mech to be at least semi-viable. Of course, by the time they'd consider making the Strider we might see the engine in Omni's unlocked if crits are available outside fixed equipment OR they might just say "This thing is such a terrible Omnimech that we're implementing it as a Battlemech."

Just saying . . . PGI is PGI and they've messed with canon in some pretty hefty ways in the past. Don't put anything past them.

Ovion, on 06 January 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

This is a list of ALL mechs available (in the currently established timeline of 3053) for the Inner Sphere and Clans.

*snip image*

139 possible Inner Sphere Mechs (33 Light, 40 Medium, 35 Heavy, 31 Assault) _{With another 27 possible Inner Sphere (6 Light, 8 Medium, 8 Heavy, 5 Assault) expanding to 3055}
and 58 possible Clan Mechs (14 Light, 17 Medium, 14 Heavy, 13 Assault) _{With another 1 possible Inner Sphere (1 Assault) expanding to 3055}

Just want to say that chart is incredible. There are a lot of great mechs on that list. I don't see PGI expanding the timeline for a LONG time with all of those chassis available.

That said . . . quite a few of them would need PGI non-canon variants (or canon variant adjustments) to meet the standards of previous chassis. While not really a big deal, especially with the 3-variant necessity going away, it's worth noting. PGI seems more inclined to go after mechs with enough variants to make their lives easy, unless the mech is really iconic. After all, more variants means more bang for their mech-artistry bucks.

However, and more importantly, just as many would require PGI implementing new weapon systems and/or game mechanics to allow some of the mechs to make any sense at all being implemented. A few examples would be the Hatchetman and other purpose-built melee weapon mechs, or the Koto which was a chassis originally purpose-built entirely around the Large X-Pulse Laser. Not to mention quad mechs, but shouldn't the Tarantula (production year 3054, 25 ton IS quad mech) be there if you're including everything possible?

Also, some mechs are more customized versions of other mechs. The Ronin (really like that mech), for example, is based on a Centurion chassis, shares its tonnage, and was a specialized Solaris mech; so those could theoretically be created as one-off hero or custom geometry variants if PGI ever implements such things. It at least becomes semi-possible with the 3-variant minimum going away.

Throw all that into play and the list shrinks significantly. However, there's still plenty of nice choices available.

Edited by Sereglach, 07 January 2017 - 07:56 AM.

[Ovion]

Sereglach, on 06 January 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

Just want to say that chart is incredible. There are a lot of great mechs on that list. I don't see PGI expanding the timeline for a LONG time with all of those chassis available.

That said . . . quite a few of them would need PGI non-canon variants (or canon variant adjustments) to meet the standards of previous chassis. While not really a big deal, especially with the 3-variant necessity going away, it's worth noting. PGI seems more inclined to go after mechs with enough variants to make their lives easy, unless the mech is really iconic. After all, more variants means more bang for their mech-artistry bucks.

However, and more importantly, just as many would require PGI implementing new weapon systems and/or game mechanics to allow some of the mechs to make any sense at all being implemented. A few examples would be the Hatchetman and other purpose-built melee weapon mechs, or the Koto which was a chassis originally purpose-built entirely around the Large X-Pulse Laser. Not to mention quad mechs, but shouldn't the Tarantula (production year 3054, 25 ton IS quad mech) be there if you're including everything possible?

Also, some mechs are more customized versions of other mechs. The Ronin (really like that mech), for example, is based on a Centurion chassis, shares its tonnage, and was a specialized Solaris mech; so those could theoretically be created as one-off hero or custom geometry variants if PGI ever implements such things. It at least becomes semi-possible with the 3-variant minimum going away.

Throw all that into play and the list shrinks significantly. However, there's still plenty of nice choices available.

The Quads (3 of them I think all told) were removed, because lets be honest - they simply aren't possible.

Even if Russ hadn't stated they simply weren't touching it, it's not economically viable.
It'd take as much if not more work to implement than the Clans did, and yield the grand total of 3-15 mechs if we don't go past 3100.

And yeah - I wasn't looking at the specific mechs when making the chart.
I simply took all variants available, sorted them by name, left the earliest year of each mechs availability _{(grouping the same 3 letter identifier for variants, like the Hatamoto and such)}, then stripped out all the ones in MWO and all the quads.

_{(This is doubly useful for me, as I play TT up to 3055 xD).}

Getting the weapons for the timeline we're missing would be great too.

Just for those of you interested, here's some more and some 'full' charts in spoilers:

Spoiler

All Mechs to 3055


All Variants to 3055


All weapons (Colour Coded to MWO availability)


Weapons realistically available in MWO 3053:

[Juodas Varnas]

Ovion, on 07 January 2017 - 06:03 AM, said:

The Quads (3 of them I think all told) were removed, because lets be honest - they simply aren't possible.

[Uncle Totty]

Ovion, on 06 January 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

This is a list of ALL mechs available (in the currently established timeline of 3053) for the Inner Sphere and Clans.

139 possible Inner Sphere Mechs (33 Light, 40 Medium, 35 Heavy, 31 Assault) _{With another 27 possible Inner Sphere (6 Light, 8 Medium, 8 Heavy, 5 Assault) expanding to 3055}
and 58 possible Clan Mechs (14 Light, 17 Medium, 14 Heavy, 13 Assault) _{With another 1 possible Inner Sphere (1 Assault) expanding to 3055}

...and yet they still felt the need to make an original mech. It would not of been so bad if it did not fallow the same logic as strapping a gun to a front loader and calling it a tank.