20517 replies to this topic

[SuperFunkTron]

I think that the speed of mechs like the Black Lanner are grossly underappreciated and won't make sense to pilots who haven't come to appreciate the speed and agility of faster mechs in general. The lower weapon weight will scare off those who are stuck on their poke or single alpha damage. We've realistically got 2 high speed medium options in the Clan medium class in the Black Lanner and Phantom, and it really comes down to something that can hit a bit harder and catch up to lights in short bursts or a mech with ecm on most variants and locust level speed and agility. Both have great potential for hard points, but it really comes down to the differences mentioned above.

I'm partial to the Phantom after having fallen in love with the locust, but I would also be very happy with the Black Lanner being added too. Early art is painful, but the updates look fierce and having a mech like that for every game mode would be a great addition. I see it synergizing well the Ice-Ferret and helping the Clans become a bit fiercer in Scouting again.

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 08 August 2017 - 06:44 AM, said:

I think that the speed of mechs like the Black Lanner are grossly underappreciated and won't make sense to pilots who haven't come to appreciate the speed and agility of faster mechs in general. The lower weapon weight will scare off those who are stuck on their poke or single alpha damage. We've realistically got 2 high speed medium options in the Clan medium class in the Black Lanner and Phantom, and it really comes down to something that can hit a bit harder and catch up to lights in short bursts or a mech with ecm on most variants and locust level speed and agility. Both have great potential for hard points, but it really comes down to the differences mentioned above.

I'm partial to the Phantom after having fallen in love with the locust, but I would also be very happy with the Black Lanner being added too. Early art is painful, but the updates look fierce and having a mech like that for every game mode would be a great addition. I see it synergizing well the Ice-Ferret and helping the Clans become a bit fiercer in Scouting again.

If you've not looked it up before, the Coyotl might be an inttersting unit to look at... She is a little slower than the Viper (119km/h vs 129.6km/h) but is pushing nearly double the pod space.... 15.5t vs 8.5.

In the Coyotl's case most hard points (save for the CT E in the alpha, which is just below the cockpit) are at or slightly above cockpit height. It also has pod mounted JJ's (7, vs the 8 in the Viper) that give it nearly the same jump ability as the Viper....

Really though there are only about three things that stand against this really well rounded 40t omni mech...

• Age, she is the first omni-mech and is currently in month-balls
  
• Only 2 canonical variants
  
• Obscure, due to coming out in the Golden Century era supplement, thus needing a reason to no have been part of the 3050 TRO.

Still, I think she looks damn good:



Coyotl Prime

[SuperFunkTron]

Metus regem, on 08 August 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:

If you've not looked it up before, the Coyotl might be an inttersting unit to look at... She is a little slower than the Viper (119km/h vs 129.6km/h) but is pushing nearly double the pod space.... 15.5t vs 8.5.

It is definitely an interesting mech, but I wouldn't group that up with the high sped, high agility mechs like the Ice-ferret, Viper, etc. with less room for weapons. It's definitely on the fast of the mechs that carry larger weapons loads for its class, but I'd still group it up with mechs like the Pouncer, Stormcrow, and other mechs in that 81-120 kph range.

We've got border line cases like the Shadowcat (the MASC gives it those bursts and thus allows it to straddle the 2 groups) and where the Black Lanner would which I find a reasonable compromise to the Phantom, but I've just got a real strong desire to finally have a Locust equivalent mech in regards to speed and agility (comparable size doesn't hurt), especially with the Civil War tech allowing so much extra damage potential on mechs with low pod space.

For clarity, the Coyotl would be a very interesting mech to have added in game, I've just got that itch for annoyingly high speed and difficulty to be hit in, even if it comes in a slightly larger package.


EDIT: I took a look at the Coyotl and ended up comparing it to the Pouncer since they are both at the 40 ton range. Though it is about 20kph slower, the variants are well developed and providing a surprising amount of fire power for a mech that small. There is an argument out there that it is essentially a "larger Adder", but I'm confused how that can be implied as a bad thing. It has more bruital stock set ups, many of which would not even need to be touched to be immediately effective in game, jumpjets (the one thing the adder lacks, other than speed) that would make it absolutely brutal) and has a variety of more weapons heavy loadouts that allow for a good diversity of effective builds.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pouncer
This is the type of heavy fire power mech we need at 40 tons, especially considering the decent speed and that jumpjets are already included in that weight.

Edited by SuperFunkTron, 08 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 08 August 2017 - 06:24 AM, said:

IS heavy: Excalibur

It's my favourite Mech not currently in game, and I think it might be worth reconsidering with the new tech. Its greatest drawback is the limited number of hardpoints, but now we have weapons dealing high damage even from a single hardpoint: HPPC, MRMs, and UAC/10 come to mind.
I mean the original loadout is very effective in TT (and hard to counter without ClanTech), but in MWO you need to adapt. With the UAC/10 and the HPPC you have still some range and good firepower to go along with the high speed of the Mech.
And it should be noted that tonnage and engine size harmonize quite well. To reach the 81 kph, you 'only' need the 350 which is far more economic than the 375 needed on 75t Mechs. And, thanks to MWO rules, you can increase the speed.

Spoiler

So before the Civil War-patch I was not very convinced it would be a good addition to MWO, even if I liked it a lot. But now it has speed and firepower. It's a glass cannon if you utilize the speed, but that goes without saying when dealing with cavalry Mechs.

SuperFunkTron, on 08 August 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

For clarity, the Coyotl would be a very interesting mech to have added in game, I've just got that itch for annoyingly high speed and difficulty to be hit in, even if it comes in a slightly larger package.

Which is fair. And I sympathize since I like fast Mechs myself, even irrationally fast ones. It is just that at 40 tons the Clans already got the Viper for that role and a new Clan 40 ton Mech would imo be better used to fill another role. And here the Coyotl seems a good choice.

Edited by FLG 01, 08 August 2017 - 08:44 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

FupDup, on 07 August 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

If nothing else, the Black Lanner would be utterly hilarious because it has the same stock speed as a Mist Lynx. With MASC, it's actually faster. Despite being more than twice the mass. PGI would also give it crazy high base agility like the Linebacker and Summoner got, since their formula is based on stock engines (big stock engine usually equals high base agility).

It would basically be one of those "fat light" type of mediums. In this case, the fattest light ever.

Kinda reminds me of the IS Wraith in that regard..

[Requiemking]

FupDup, on 07 August 2017 - 08:08 PM, said:

If nothing else, the Black Lanner would be utterly hilarious because it has the same stock speed as a Mist Lynx. With MASC, it's actually faster. Despite being more than twice the mass. PGI would also give it crazy high base agility like the Linebacker and Summoner got, since their formula is based on stock engines (big stock engine usually equals high base agility).

It would basically be one of those "fat light" type of mediums. In this case, the fattest light ever.

The biggest red flag for it is a dependency on arm hardpoints (really wish there were head and RT energy slots). The low space can kinda sorta be dealt with using laser vomit, although the nerfs to the ERSL and SPL will make its CQB ability not as effective as it would've been in an earlier meta.

Erm, objection. The title of "Fattest Light ever" belongs to the Linebacker and the Dragon(although, you do need to run a max-sized engine in the Dragon).

Edited by Requiemking, 08 August 2017 - 10:41 AM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Odanan, on 08 August 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

You kidding? The mech looks amazing!
(I felt in love with it the first time I opened that Battletech TCG Arsenal booster)



About the pod space, I usually go for the heaviest engine in light and medium mechs, anyway...

Yeah that looks decent of the mech. I was referring to the original TRO art, which doesn't look to visually appealing to me imo. We shall see how the hit boxes are with the Alex concept artwork and what the actual mech is going to look like in game once it drops. Wonder how it's going to perform against the Shadow Cat.

[Metus regem]

Arnold The Governator, on 08 August 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Yeah that looks decent of the mech. I was referring to the original TRO art, which doesn't look to visually appealing to me imo. We shall see how the hit boxes are with the Alex concept artwork and what the actual mech is going to look like in game once it drops. Wonder how it's going to perform against the Shadow Cat.

Not to mention it's TRO art that Alex uses as his inspiration.... As all other sources are non cannon, so I wouldn't get too attached to the look from other sources aside from the TRO's....

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 08 August 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

Not to mention it's TRO art that Alex uses as his inspiration.... As all other sources are non cannon, so I wouldn't get too attached to the look from other sources aside from the TRO's....

Alex made major changes (always for better) to a lot of the designs. Just take a look at the TRO Centurion, Cicada, Kintaro, Javelin... I trust he won't disappoint us now.

Edited by Odanan, 08 August 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[CK16]

Still prefer if they make the MW4 Hellhound an official cannon design and new mech.

Could do it simular to the Arctic Wolf some omni some battle at 55 tons.

[SuperFunkTron]

Odanan, on 08 August 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

Alex made major changes (always for better) to a lot of the designs. Just take a look at the TRO Centurion, Cicada, Kintaro, Javelin... I trust he won't disappoint us now.

The TRO Javelin looks like he suffers from Cushing Syndrome and extreme mutton chops.

On a more serious note, I definitely support the art direction MWO has taken, even more so considering that the TRO is the original inspiration.

[Ovion]

Odanan, on 07 August 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

I just checked: it looks like that, by December 2018, we will have approximately 100 different chassis and 600+ different variants in this game!

People might complain about the Freemium model, but only that way Battletech fans could see so many mechs translated into (gorgeous) playable 3d models. You have all my respect, PGI.

PS: I love mechs. Keep them coming!

Should be sooner tbh.
We getting an average of about 1.3 new mechs and 8 new variants a month I think. (1+6 a month, some extra packs / variants / special occasions, etc)
At a current tally of 87 + 483, we should hit 100 Mechs (and 560-570 variants) in 10 months (around June/July 2018).

Edited by Ovion, 08 August 2017 - 12:12 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

On a more serious note, I definitely support the art direction MWO has taken, even more so considering that the TRO is the original inspiration.

The steady dribble of MWO chassis minis I see showing up in TT games these days also points to a wider approval, even if they're anything but official.

[CancersCincar]

Ovion, on 08 August 2017 - 06:01 AM, said:

Those are all later art though.
And that looks fine.
The core of it though, its roots is this:

I love the older art! Praise be to the duck overlord!

Although the new artwork looks quite good, in my opinion.

[Odanan]

Brain Cancer, on 08 August 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

The steady dribble of MWO chassis minis I see showing up in TT games these days also points to a wider approval, even if they're anything but official.

MWO, HBS Battletech, MW5... the MWO designs are here to stay, and will probably inspire every new rendition in future games.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 08 August 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

MWO, HBS Battletech, MW5... the MWO designs area here to stay, and will probably inspire every new rendition in future games.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the MWO Atlas is much more imposing that the TRO version...

[Thorn Hallis]

I'd love to see the Black Lanner in MWO. I actually like the original TRO artwork, it always reminded me of a more refined Mad Dog/Vulture.

In terms of Clan medium omnis I was always intrigued about the Stooping Hawk.



The artwork actually looks like it allready got the MWO-treatment.

Metus regem, on 08 August 2017 - 08:04 PM, said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the MWO Atlas is much more imposing that the TRO version...

I totally agree.

Edited by Thorn Hallis, 08 August 2017 - 11:05 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

at least the Stooping Hawk would get annihilator armor quirks with its std fusion engine.
But its ok - that guy still has almost the same weapon load as the Summoner with the same mobility.

[FLG 01]

I was not sure about the Stooping Hawk. In TT it is a fine Mech and fairly mobile thanks to ok speed and great JJs (8 iJJ on the -F!). But would the average MWO Clanner (most of whom don't even know the Blood Spirits) be exited by an Omni with STD-engine?

But other than the STD engine, the Mech might be fairly potent in MWO if given some quirks.

[Karl Streiger]

FLG 01, on 09 August 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:

I was not sure about the Stooping Hawk. In TT it is a fine Mech and fairly mobile thanks to ok speed and great JJs (8 iJJ on the -F!). But would the average MWO Clanner (most of whom don't even know the Blood Spirits) be exited by an Omni with STD-engine?

But other than the STD engine, the Mech might be fairly potent in MWO if given some quirks.

well the Stooping Hawk need to be compared with the Huntsman - Stormcrow and Nova differ to much.
The Huntsman is (imho) the best medium Mech and it doesn't have quirks anymore (as said quirks are bad because you can not build you Mech on quirks - keep with the "fixed" stats)

I did run two builds on the Huntsman non of them are "super" but they do what they should do and i can perform good enough (for me) - those build is the LB10X in combination with ERPPC or dual ERPPC with AMS support for both variants.
The Stooping Hawk can have the same build but would lack the heatsinks.
The LB10X-ERPPC might be the better option for the Stooping Hawk - anyhow the Huntsman is superior so it seems obviously that the Stooping Hawk would need quirks (the falancy of the quirk metric however is - if the Stooping Hawk is super successful they tend to remove quirks (like they did with the Huntsman lately) - the problem when you remove quirks the Huntsman is again the better Mech for 5t less....

but this is a global problem (and people at PGI need to think about - combining equipment with quirks) or at least they should have thought about it in the first instance, the ship has sailed the harbor a while ago