20517 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Gasoline, on 28 January 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

The heavy bracket is so dominated by the Rifleman IIC and yet we can't have it due to friggin HG being all jerky about it.

I thought that HG isn't an issue anymore because we already have several unseen mechs in MWO?

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 28 January 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

I thought that HG isn't an issue anymore because we already have several unseen mechs in MWO?

https://community.ba...ads/9113?page=1

That thread has pretty much everything you need to know in it.

For the executive summary: HG is up to their same schemes. However, their lack of standing, due to the recent litigation they went through over the rights with Big West/Tatsunoko (wherein it was established and acknowledged in federal court in CA that HG does NOT own any rights to the characters in question), are currently putting the case into a potential state of dismissal with prejudice. IF that doesn't go through, then trial by jury is in September of this year; and PGI, HBS, Jordan Weisman, and Catalyst/CGL have already made it clear that the re-imagined classics are in NO WAY the original unseen. Also, given the images that HG is using in their lawsuit . . . it's laughable . . . but it is what it is.

Regardless, it's THE reason we haven't seen any more classics at this point in time. Everything is on hold due to the legal matters at hand. Also, it's not really a point for discussion here; and any discussion outside of what's already been had needs to wait for new information/events with the current lawsuit.

Edited by Sereglach, 29 January 2018 - 12:01 AM.

[Odanan]

Gasoline, on 28 January 2018 - 10:56 PM, said:

Well, considering that this is their resource to determine the next mech and Matt pretty much already unveiled it will be an iconic clan mech...

That poll shows us that nostalgia sells. People have more interest in the iconic mechs (specially mechs they already know from other games), not in the most efficient ones.

For instance, the Clan medium poll dominated by the Shadow Hawk IIC and the Griffin IIC instead of the Vapor Eagle. And look at the IS light votes all on the (debatable) Highlander Hollander...

Of course, sometimes the most well known mech is exactly what the faction needs, like the Blood Asp for Clan assault and Rifleman IIC for Clan heavy.

Edited by Odanan, 29 January 2018 - 01:49 PM.

[SuperFunkTron]

FLG 01, on 28 January 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

...
Looking at the Clan Mechs only, I don't think the Blood Asp is what they need the most. The Clan assault selection is fine, with the exception of a good 80t Mech (Warhammer IIC!).
But then, PGI is obviously not very concerned about needs other than their own financial needs - which is ok, they need to make money. Also, the Blood Asp is Russ's favourite iirc, a fan favourite, and should sell well. I am however, very much indifferent.

What do you mean by "a good 80t Mech"? We've already got a great one that people refuse to figure out.

While the rest of the assault brackets are reasonably fleshed out, I still think that the Direwolf could use some small adjustments (mobility and maybe a little set of 8 and more reduced quirks across pods adding up) before they keep throwing in more mechs there. I know it's not as popular, but if you compare the number of IS mediums to Clan mediums, I think it's clear that the biggest disparity is there.

[SuperFunkTron]

Odanan, on 29 January 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

That poll shows us that nostalgia sells. People have more interest in the iconic mechs (specially mechs they already know from other games), not in the most efficient ones.

For instance, the Clan medium poll dominated by the Shadow Hawk IIC and the Griffin IIC instead of the Vapor Eagle. And look at the IS light votes all on the (debatable) Highlander...

Of course, sometimes the most well known mech is exactly what the faction needs, like the Blood Asp for Clan assault and Rifleman IIC for Clan heavy.

There is a lot of nostalgia, and though I understand the benefit of putting mechs from the older games in before less known mechs, PGI should either finish off the "lists" they were already checking off (the Phantom should not have been skipped over!).

All in all, I think it really is one of those unlovable tasks where no matter what is chosen, there will always be a large population complaining about that decision and saying something else would be better, much like the largely loved Black Lanner that caters to players who enjoy mechs like the Ice-Ferret, Locust, and Cicada, but doesn't give much to those who are looking for the next mech with a heavy punch and don't care much for learning to use speed as a tool for survival and extending their damage delivery.

Despite not being thrilled of Solaris being developed before they make substantial improvements to FP, I believe some of the systems they mentioned, particularly the mech tier system they said they'd be creating, will be the most effective tool for not only separating mechs by effectiveness and essential "Battle Value", but also for potentially addressing what types of mechs/roles are not being effectively addressed among the 2 factions. I'm really hoping that that feature will help create a lot more depth that will translate to clearer reasons for mech choices as well as finally giving us some sort of backdrop to FP and making the matches consequential on a more global scale.

[Metus regem]

SuperFunkTron, on 29 January 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

What do you mean by "a good 80t Mech"? We've already got a great one that people refuse to figure out.

While the rest of the assault brackets are reasonably fleshed out, I still think that the Direwolf could use some small adjustments (mobility and maybe a little set of 8 and more reduced quirks across pods adding up) before they keep throwing in more mechs there. I know it's not as popular, but if you compare the number of IS mediums to Clan mediums, I think it's clear that the biggest disparity is there.

Due to how MWO handles Battlemechs vs Omnimechs (by removing 90% of the advantage of using an Omnimech), the Gargoyle will be inferior to mechs like the Warhammer IIC or Phoenix Hawk IIC.

Now as much as I love the Warhammer IIC, I do see that the Phoenix Hawk IIC would be the better choice for MWO, the basic version packs twin UAC/10's in cockpit level high-mounts in the ST's with a 400 series engine, this means that that engine size can be lowered and with hard point inflation, I could see the Phoenix Hawk IIC becoming the next Kodiak 3.


Now if PGI could figure out how to make the logistical advantage of Omni's work in MWO, I could see a solid shift in mech choices. I personally have been an advocate of allowing Omni's to save 2-3 load outs, with the ability to hot-swap them during the count down to the mission profile. I mean there is no reason to keep a short range cold brawler build on a map like Polar, or a hot long range build on a map like Terra Therma. Something like that would speak to the logistical advantage of Omni's over Battlemechs, with out punishing players with a mech lock out system when we change the armaments.

[Water Bear]

SuperFunkTron, on 29 January 2018 - 07:42 AM, said:

[...] All in all, I think it really is one of those unlovable tasks where no matter what is chosen, there will always be a large population complaining about that decision and saying something else would be better [...]

Dude, yes. In an unrelated event in real life, a group I work with recently added hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of mountain bike trails to the local system. Guess what? Most people are happy to have new things, but a handful went straight away to complaining about how it wasn't what they wanted or how they'd have built it.

Some people are like entitled children. Not everything is for you!

[Sereglach]

Odanan, on 29 January 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

That poll shows us that nostalgia sells. People have more interest in the iconic mechs (specially mechs they already know from other games), not in the most efficient ones.

For instance, the Clan medium poll dominated by the Shadow Hawk IIC and the Griffin IIC instead of the Vapor Eagle. And look at the IS light votes all on the (debatable) Highlander...

Of course, sometimes the most well known mech is exactly what the faction needs, like the Blood Asp for Clan assault and Rifleman IIC for Clan heavy.

For one, I'm presuming you meant Hollander . . . not Highlander.

That said, I think the misplaced enthusiasm for the Hollander comes from thoughts of MechCommander, wherein the mech people got in that game was the Hollander II (aka the Hollander BZK-F5) . . . which was a 45 ton medium. I think if people actually realized that the base Hollander was a dinky little thing that packed a Gauss Rifle . . . and nothing else . . . they wouldn't want it so much. At least the Hollander II had backup weapons.

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 29 January 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

And look at the IS light votes all on the (debatable) Highlander...

"Debatable" is the greatest understatement in MWO's history. Without quirks to make an Annihilator envious there is no way this one does not end up being completely useless.

It just highlights one big problem of such polls: people voting for a Mech in a weight class they do not actually play.

Water Bear, on 29 January 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

Some people are like entitled children. Not everything is for you!

That's why I strictly seperate my personal feelings from my analysis of a Mech's usefulness in MWO. One of my favourites e.g. is the Spartan; it might be ok, but realistically it won't be terribly useful. Also I am not much of an assault player anyway. So I set my personal feelings aside.

On the other hand, is it not entitlement in its purest form to demand a bad Mech nobody will play after its release just to feed one's own nostalgia and personal feelings, disregarding objective factors?
You could name any MW:4 original Mech the IS got. They have all but disappeared from the game. People had been ignorant of their very obvious flaws, yet they have been pushing them in polls, but they are not actually playing them now. And their entitlement actively blocked the introduction of good Mechs people might actually enjoy and play - including themselves.

Edited by FLG 01, 29 January 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Metus regem]

FLG 01, on 29 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

That's why I strictly seperate my personal feelings from my analysis of a Mech's usefulness in MWO. One of my favourites e.g. is the Spartan; it might be ok, but realistically it won't be terribly useful. Also I am not much of an assault player anyway. So I set my personal feelings aside.

On the other hand, is it not entitlement in its purest form to demand a bad Mech nobody will play after its release just to feed one's own nostalgia and personal feelings, disregarding objective factors?
You could name any MW:4 original Mech the IS got. They have all but disappeared from the game. People had been ignorant of their very obvious flaws, yet they have been pushing them in polls, but they are not actually playing them now. And their entitlement actively blocked the introduction of good Mechs people might actually enjoy and play - including themselves.

Trust me, I know how hard it is to set aside personal feelings on a mech to look at it objectively...

I remember (hell you can look back in this very thread), where people were demanding the Bushy, and pointed out or likely hit boxes, likely flaws, but also her strengths... Now it was nice to be proven right on all of those points, and I also admitted way back when, that I loved the mech dearly, in MW3, 4 and TT, but I would not be blind to her flaws. Same goes for the Pixi, but that is more of a case of telling HG where they can go shove their lawyers...

[The Lighthouse]

FLG 01, on 29 January 2018 - 01:06 PM, said:

"Debatable" is the greatest understatement in MWO's history. Without quirks to make an Annihilator envious there is no way this one does not end up being completely useless.

It just highlights one big problem of such polls: people voting for a Mech in a weight class they do not actually play.



That's why I strictly seperate my personal feelings from my analysis of a Mech's usefulness in MWO. One of my favourites e.g. is the Spartan; it might be ok, but realistically it won't be terribly useful. Also I am not much of an assault player anyway. So I set my personal feelings aside.

On the other hand, is it not entitlement in its purest form to demand a bad Mech nobody will play after its release just to feed one's own nostalgia and personal feelings, disregarding objective factors?
You could name any MW:4 original Mech the IS got. They have all but disappeared from the game. People had been ignorant of their very obvious flaws, yet they have been pushing them in polls, but they are not actually playing them now. And their entitlement actively blocked the introduction of good Mechs people might actually enjoy and play - including themselves.

It is not just IS mechs. Other than Mad Cat mk.II, when was last time did you see a Nova Cat? Cougar?

As I said on this thread quite a while ago, no way current poll reflects the will of people who are actually buying the mechpack. There has to be a new poll. I bet significantly less people would vote for mechs like Hollander......

....Though I really want Hollander and will play if it comes to MOW, there is no doubt it will be terrible unless it gets quirks that even Vindicator would envy.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 29 January 2018 - 01:27 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

You don't see Nova Cats because frankly, they didn't have anything exceptional enough for most people.

I'm looking forward to the C-bill release. While slow for a Clanner, it's not too slow for a heavy and has a nice spacious chassis with plenty of room to have fun with.

[Odanan]

Called it!

[Metus regem]

To quote myself from another thread:

Metus regem, on 01 February 2018 - 11:16 AM, said:

huh...

I'm a little concerned about her hill hump ability with the distance between the shoulder mounts and cockpit... hopefully it will not be as bad as the archer...


Doing a quick glance at it, I think the BAS-B is going to be the best version for hill hump work. With either the Prime or the BAS-D for general usage.

[Odanan]

Let's take a minute to reflect about the mechs in this game. 92 different chassis, 514 different variants, ranging from very old designs, like the Orion and the Banshee to very new ones, like the Arctic Wolf and the Blood Asp.

You did good PGI. The world is a better place because of MWO.

[Ovion]

[FupDup]

Mostly turned out okay (aesthetically) other than the arm laser mounts being derped up in terms of positioning and spacing (most obvious on the RA laser not being centered).

Specifically, the angle of this screenshot makes me very concerned about the length of the right arm laser. It looks like it got the generic nub treatment that nearly all MWO weapons get.

Edited by FupDup, 01 February 2018 - 04:13 PM.

[The Lighthouse]

FupDup, on 01 February 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

Mostly turned out okay (aesthetically) other than the arm laser mounts being derped up in terms of positioning and spacing (most obvious on the RA laser not being centered).

Specifically, the angle of this screenshot makes me very concerned about the length of the right arm laser. It looks like it got the generic nub treatment that nearly all MWO weapons get.

Oh my god hitboxes are like.... insanely ultra bad..

[Pariah Devalis]

The Lighthouse, on 01 February 2018 - 04:29 PM, said:

Oh my god hitboxes are like.... insanely ultra bad..

Bad Lanner. The gift that keeps on giving. Ya'll calling the PIR a roleplaying mech, but this? This right here? Falcons, rejoice!

Imma just be over here, staring at the roof of the Shadow Cat's cockpit, wondering why they put a moonroof on the mech if they were just gonna cover it up with monitors.... XD

[Metus regem]

To everyone that wanted the Black Lanner, I hope you enjoy it and pilot it for longer than two weeks... me, my Bushy is going to be gunning for ya...