20517 replies to this topic

[FireSlade]

Strum Wealh, on 23 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I rather suspect that the 'Mechs that make up a "Clan Founders Pack" (which, IMO, would probably be structured more like Project Phoenix than like the original Founders Program, in terms of which 'Mechs are available at which purchase levels) will most likely be selected from the original 16 OmniMechs - my guesses would be the Koshi or the Uller for the Light 'Mech, the Fenris or the Black Hawk for the Medium 'Mech, the Vulture or the Thor for the Heavy 'Mech, and the Masakari or the Gladiator for the Assault 'Mech.

I wonder how much they would charge for all 16 of them? Also I am betting on the Adder; PGI seems to love the high alpha meta.

[Odanan]

Strum Wealh, on 23 October 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

I rather suspect that the 'Mechs that make up a "Clan Founders Pack" (which, IMO, would probably be structured more like Project Phoenix than like the original Founders Program, in terms of which 'Mechs are available at which purchase levels) will most likely be selected from the original 16 OmniMechs - my guesses would be the Koshi or the Uller for the Light 'Mech, the Fenris or the Black Hawk for the Medium 'Mech, the Vulture or the Thor for the Heavy 'Mech, and the Masakari or the Gladiator for the Assault 'Mech.

Not any of the most iconic Clan mechs?

Hmmm... from the business perspective, I would bet in the Fire Moth (Dasher), Storm Crow (Ryoken), Mad Cat (TImberwolf) and Dire Wolf (Daishi). I know... min/max... but still, why would PGI lose the chance to earn more money?

Edit: typo.

Edited by Odanan, 23 October 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Odanan, on 23 October 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Not any of the most iconic Clan mechs?

Hmmm... from the business perspective, I would bet in the Fire Moth (Dasher), Storm Crow (Ryoken), Mad Cat (TImberwolf) and Dire Wolf (Daishi). I know... min/max... but still, why would PGI lose the chance to earn more money?

Edit: typo.

My thinking is that:

• the Mad Cat and the Daishi would/will undoubtedly be the best sellers of the Clan 'Mechs on an individual basis,
  
• a substantial number of people will buy a "Clan Founders Pack" regardless of which 'Mechs are included, and
  
• the the number of people that wouldn't buy a "Clan Founders Pack" because either or both the Mad Cat or the Daishi aren't included within it is likely to be so small relative to the likely number of purchases as to be marginal.

As such, there is arguably a good chance that it would be more profitable for PGI to include other 'Mechs (those that would still be desirable, but would not be top-tier sellers) together with the other likely perks (MC, premium time, paintjobs/medallions/other trinkets) in the pack (which, like the PP pack, will likely cost less than the sum of what all of the components would cost separately), then sell the top-tier sellers (e.g. Mad Cat and Daishi - the things that they know many will buy regardless of the price) as separate (and "full-price") units using the same format as the more recent 'Mechs (e.g. MC-only Hero 'Mech, then MC-only common versions after a 1-2 week interval, then the common versions for in-game currency after another 1-2 week interval).

Would you put it past PGI - or IGP - to come to similar conclusions?

[Antonio]

I know the Shadowcat makes its major debut in 3052 but I think it can still make it as the first medium clan mech released due to its popularity. (heavily biased Shadowcat fan here)

[Colddawg]

Adder, Shadow Cat, Timber Wolf, and Dire Wolf.

If they CAN'T fix the issue with the omnimechs for initial release then it will have to be 4 of the second line 'Mechs. I don't see this happening though as they'll lose out on a lot of money with presales.
(Kodiak???)

Edited by Colddawg, 23 October 2013 - 04:09 PM.

[Phoenix Branson]

Odanan, on 23 October 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

MW4 players, chill out, we are not in the late sixties yet.

PS: I'm feeling oppressed by all those Overlords here...

PPS: watched the new map's video and I must say: "impressive!". I really like the art direction of the new maps.

Odanan, have you thought about buying Phoenix? Yeah that new map reminds me of the Death Star.

[Bishop Steiner]

well, here is a new one in the spirit of the Phoenix, hope people like it


whipped it up for MoonUnitBeta's contest, here:
http://mwomercs.com/...est-unofficial/
hoping to get more people interested and filing entries to get this thing exciting. And to show Bryan and Paul and Russ (and Alex) that screw Harmony Gold, we got enough talent on these bloody forums to come up with our own dang Marauders and warhammers and Rifleman and such.

Maverick01, on 23 October 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Odanan, have you thought about buying Phoenix? Yeah that new map reminds me of the Death Star.

which is cool since my Locust makes me feel like I'm in a TIE Fighter........

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 23 October 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[FireSlade]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

well, here is a new one in the spirit of the Phoenix, hope people like it


whipped it up for MoonUnitBeta's contest, here:
http://mwomercs.com/...est-unofficial/
hoping to get more people interested and filing entries to get this thing exciting. And to show Bryan and Paul and Russ (and Alex) that screw Harmony Gold, we got enough talent on these bloody forums to come up with our own dang Marauders and warhammers and Rifleman and such.


which is cool since my Locust makes me feel like I'm in a TIE Fighter........

Holy ****, I love it.... Anyone got twitter? If so send this to Russ. And all this talk of Death Stars and TIE fighters has got me missing the X wing series. I wish somebody would reboot the Star Wars space combat sims. but alas Disney has pretty much destroyed the Star Wars game development.

[Scrawny Cowboy]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

well, here is a new one in the spirit of the Phoenix, hope people like it


whipped it up for MoonUnitBeta's contest, here:
http://mwomercs.com/...est-unofficial/
hoping to get more people interested and filing entries to get this thing exciting. And to show Bryan and Paul and Russ (and Alex) that screw Harmony Gold, we got enough talent on these bloody forums to come up with our own dang Marauders and warhammers and Rifleman and such.


which is cool since my Locust makes me feel like I'm in a TIE Fighter........

Just dawned on me, the unseen Maurader would make a mean hill "hugger". Its artwork has the AC5 mounted dead center despite being located in the side torso on the loadout paper work right?

Edit: Awesome artwork btw

Edited by Scrawny Cowboy, 23 October 2013 - 09:47 PM.

[Ens]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

nicely done little artwork thingy

despite the fact i never understood nor liked the marauder hype in the first place...
this is actually a really really nice drawing

whatever comes out on the contest.....you probably earn first place *thumbs up* !

[Odanan]

Maverick01, on 23 October 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Odanan, have you thought about buying Phoenix?

I bought the Overlord in the first 2 hours of its announcement, as soon as I took notice of it.
I was very excited, but after some decisions by the devs (like forcing us 3rd Person View and the following PR disaster) I simply stopped to play the game and asked my refund.

I still come to the forums but in truth, I lost my trust in Piranha Games. The devs will pursue "their vision", no matter the community's opinion. To be honest, I'm very pessimist of how they will implement the Clans (all this talking about "fixing" the Clans give me chills).

Maverick01, on 23 October 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

Yeah that new map reminds me of the Death Star.

Death Star meets the terraforming colony from Aliens, which is nice all the way.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

well, here is a new one in the spirit of the Phoenix, hope people like it

whipped it up for MoonUnitBeta's contest, here:
http://mwomercs.com/...est-unofficial/
hoping to get more people interested and filing entries to get this thing exciting. And to show Bryan and Paul and Russ (and Alex) that screw Harmony Gold, we got enough talent on these bloody forums to come up with our own dang Marauders and warhammers and Rifleman and such.

Great drawing!
I was a big fan of Robotech when very young. In fact, these iconic designs like Marauder and Wasp/Stinger/Valkyrie that so strongly attracted me to Battletech.
But to be honest, I find the original Marauder design too "alien" for Battletech, and I prefer the reseen approach (like yours).

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

which is cool since my Locust makes me feel like I'm in a TIE Fighter........

[Odanan]

FireSlade, on 23 October 2013 - 07:10 PM, said:

Holy ****, I love it.... Anyone got twitter? If so send this to Russ. And all this talk of Death Stars and TIE fighters has got me missing the X wing series. I wish somebody would reboot the Star Wars space combat sims. but alas Disney has pretty much destroyed the Star Wars game development.

Early Lucas Arts games = best games ever. X-Wing and Tie-Fighter are some of the "games of my life".

PS: it's not the same thing, but did you know Dice is developing the new Star Wars Battlefront? Now I have a reason to hold on on life until 2015. ;P

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 24 October 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

To be honest, I'm very pessimist of how they will implement the Clans (all this talking about "fixing" the Clans give me chills).

Pessimistic, or just realistic?

Realistic view is expecting them to botch it heavily, include MCs in it and definitely not do it in a matter the subject deserves.
Pessimistic view is them screwing it up on absolutely every front possible from art through technical details to implementation.

One view simply paints a realistic picture based on their previous achievements, the other expects the worst for the sake of it.

Odanan, on 24 October 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

PS: it's not the same thing, but did you know Dice is developing the new Star Wars Battlefront? Now I have a reason to hold on on life until 2015. ;P

Since the second it was premiered at E3. Give or take a few milliseconds of internet data travel time.

Cautiously neutral about the game. On one hand, it's DICE and Battlefront together. On the other, it's EA slave DICE on a blockbuster title. Not getting any hopes up or expectations, but if it releases, EA somehow allows DICE to make a proper game with no interference and it ends up good, I'll be "all over it."

Neutralism on the subject is the best way to go when it comes to most AAA games in today's age, in my honest opinion.

Edited by Adridos, 24 October 2013 - 04:32 AM.

[Odanan]

Adridos, on 24 October 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Pessimistic, or just realistic?

Realistic view is expecting them to botch it heavily, include MCs in it and definitely not do it in a matter the subject deserves.
Pessimistic view is them screwing it up on absolutely every front possible from art through technical details to implementation.

One view simply paints a realistic picture based on their previous achievements, the other expects the worst for the sake of it.

Looks like not even the inclusion of the Shadow Hawk lightened your spirit.

[Adridos]

Odanan, on 24 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Looks like not even the inclusion of the Shadow Hawk lightened your spirit.

There's still no Vindy in the game... 111!!!111

Nah, I like the fact I'll finally get to pilot it the right way with no need for wanna-be loadouts. On the other hand, I'm fully aware of how much fun it will be compared to how much fun it could be. Objectivistic outlook on situation, if you will.

And then, I'm saving up on very positive attitude for the rest of the stuff happening in November and December. Very possible first announcement of LotV on Blizzcon, the start of S4 on the 23th, first snow sometimes in December and of course all the holidays that come with the season. Getting too excited over Shadow Hawk which will, of course, require a little fight with all the wrong decisions PGI has made, is pretty much impossible. You could say I'm in it mostly for the art, or spirit of the mech, rather than enjoyment of playing it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 24 October 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

I bought the Overlord in the first 2 hours of its announcement, as soon as I took notice of it.
I was very excited, but after some decisions by the devs (like forcing us 3rd Person View and the following PR disaster) I simply stopped to play the game and asked my refund.

I still come to the forums but in truth, I lost my trust in Piranha Games. The devs will pursue "their vision", no matter the community's opinion. To be honest, I'm very pessimist of how they will implement the Clans (all this talking about "fixing" the Clans give me chills).

Is it odd that for the most part, I have the opposite view?

Too often, I see people too open for community input, and the end result tends to be a compromise which is meant to appeal to everyone, yet usually fails to work for anyone. Some of our biggest balance swings and miscues have been from when they listened to excessive QQ from the community. (Looking objectively now, did the K2 really need to be nerfed all to heck? 1 Module slot, mediocre torso twist, no lateral arm reflex to begine with, and now between ghost heat and the nerfs on Guauss and PPC (3 thing at the end that individually don't bug me, tbh) the concept of the fearsome Gaussapult seems rather quaint.

IMO, for the most part, if the Devs had just "stuck to their vision" from the get go, on most things, the game would be in a much better, less bandage covered place.

In a few things, like their original consumables plan,, 3pV and stuff, they did largely listen, and it was for the good. But too much forum nerdrage, too many balancing yoyos from not sticking to the long term plan, especially whilst in Beta, and I can understand why they tune out most of the forum posts, tbh.

Maybe it's my view as an artist, but while I want constructive criticism, I am still going to follow through with my vision of what I am hoping to achieve, and others are welcome to like, dislike etc as they want.

Of course, if they had chosen something besides cryengine, and a host of other things, it would be in an even better place than that, but it is what it is.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 October 2013 - 05:30 AM.

[Adridos]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 October 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Maybe it's my view as an artist, but while I want constructive criticism, I am still going to follow through with my vision of what I am hoping to achieve, and others are welcome to like, dislike etc as they want.

Pleasing everyone is impossible, that's true. But when designing a game, one has to find the proper balance between his own truth and that of the players. Some get it right, some do not. Come get away with it, but there are also ones that don't.

Take CCP, for instance. This quote from an interview about the company sums it up:
"Lander paraphrases the sentiments of his colleagues: "'Why are we changing the game? Why are we changing this game that I love? That I work on?'"

"Well, 'we need to change it,'" he remembers saying. "'There's still stuff that needs to be improved and we can throw stones into the pond and balance everything; we can make it exciting for people again. But that's not forgetting that it's about spaceships and it's about this hard, brutal, frankly dickish game.'"

"And," adds Touborg, "you can be a hard, brutal, dickish game with understandable UI."

Basically, the article is about how they went from doing everything their way to actually balancing it with things that appealed the community and not them after the release of that infamous expansion. Still holding onto their vision of the game, but also making that same vision less unmovable.

http://www.polygon.c...ise-from-infamy


It's that what makes video game design a bit different beast than art. You can do anything in art and you will "succeed". It doesn't have to adhere to social rules, nor break them, it doesn't have to make you tons of money, but you've still accomplished something and finished a piece of art, no matter what others think about it. A game that is not enjoyed by anyone, however, is not a success. Unless people enjoy your game, you're looking at something that is much more comparable to an unfinished piece of art, rather than one which people don't like.

All this philosophical stuff is generic, by the way, and not aimed at PGI and MW:O.

[Odanan]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 October 2013 - 05:28 AM, said:

Maybe it's my view as an artist, but while I want constructive criticism, I am still going to follow through with my vision of what I am hoping to achieve, and others are welcome to like, dislike etc as they want.

That's a very egomaniac vision that fits only for artists.
Unfortunately, a game is a much more complex system. If you betray your core "audience" by changing what they feel it's working, you are doing wrong. If you don't listen to what the majority think its not working, you are doing wrong.

Adridos, on 24 October 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

It's that what makes video game design a bit different beast than art. You can do anything in art and you will "succeed". It doesn't have to adhere to social rules, nor break them, it doesn't have to make you tons of money, but you've still accomplished something and finished a piece of art, no matter what others think about it. A game that is not enjoyed by anyone, however, is not a success. Unless people enjoy your game, you're looking at something that is much more comparable to an unfinished piece of art, rather than one which people don't like.

Quoting for awesomeness.

[Colddawg]

Odanan, on 24 October 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

That's a very egomaniac vision that fits only for artists.
Unfortunately, a game is a much more complex system. If you betray your core "audience" by changing what they feel it's working, you are doing wrong. If you don't listen to what the majority think its not working, you are doing wrong.


Quoting for awesomeness.

Goes back to "you can't please everyone" which is why I feel they should interpret TT into a game how they feel it should work to be true to the BTU.

Things like how ECM are working will probably pan out to be balanced in the long run. They're not just doing stuff willy-nilly. They've planned this out for 3+ years from even before they released their initial tease of the Warhammer waltzing through the city.