20517 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

Well, they release the Thanatos by ignoring the C3-slave and replacing it with a DHS. And iirc the Hellbringer comes with A-pods but does not in MWO.
I think you should include the variants with C3-slave; PGI would just slightly adapt them anyway.

Edited by FLG 01, 10 August 2017 - 12:51 PM.

[FupDup]

The assaults are done.



I was more or less forced to include the crit-splitting variants because otherwise we would only have 2. In this case it's very easy to just move RT ammo to the CT to make the fit work, so it might be within PGI's reach.




As said earlier, I decided to list C3 Slave variants because otherwise we would have barely any to go off of. It's just 1 ton and 1 slot, so you can easily substitute 1 ton of ammo for it.




C3 Master variants were ignored since it's harder to replace 5 tons and 5 slots. There's also a critsplitting variant, just another reminder of why having the LB 20-X at 11 slots sucks. The Samual 12 MG hero would be so freaking insane, there's no way PGI will add it. If they did they would retcon it to have fewer hardpoints like the Thanatos.

Edited by FupDup, 10 August 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

They might get away with replacing C3 Masters with a TAG + TCIV (since C3 Masters get free TAG, why not?) or Beagle/ECM/TAG. Of course, that's a free energy hardpoint.

[Ovion]

Brain Cancer, on 10 August 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

Yeah, the Owens is honestly DOA because of it's locked SHS, courtesy of being an early-era Kurita Omni design. At best, it's going to end up some undergunned nightmare that desperately wishes for more ballistic hardpoints so it can at least spam MG fire, but it only gets two, and that on the -A alone. Not worth adding, as it combines the worst in 3025-era tech with an expensive trash build.

It'll quite possibly have a fixed TC1, BAP and TAG too.
With a fixed XL280, moving at 129.6

Leaving 6.5T to play with (10 if those items aren't fixed).

Good number of missile points, energy points, probably only 2-3 B points.
It'd mainly be a missile mech, or mount a single AC in the 2 category.

[FupDup]

Ovion, on 10 August 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

It'll quite possibly have a fixed TC1, BAP and TAG too.
With a fixed XL280, moving at 129.6

Leaving 6.5T to play with (10 if those items aren't fixed).

Good number of missile points, energy points, probably only 2-3 B points.
It'd mainly be a missile mech, or mount a single AC in the 2 category.

It does not have a TC1 locked in.

[Ovion]

FupDup, on 10 August 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

It does not have a TC1 locked in.

No, it has a BAP, C3 Slave and TAG.
But we don't have C3 Slave, so it'll be something, probably a TC1.
Or maybe a Heat Sink.

[Odanan]

FupDup, on 10 August 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

Many variants are invalidated because of having C3, unfortunately. Also has a bit of a hardpoint famine.

As the Thanatos proved, PGI has no problem with replacing C3 by armor. I would like to see the excluded variants.

FupDup, on 10 August 2017 - 12:37 PM, said:

I'm starting to consider still listing the C3 variants going forward because right now I had to exclude 6 Templar variants...so now it only has 4 total. Or perhaps still ignore the C3 Master variants (hard to fill that weight), but count the C3 Slave (because 1 ton + 1 slot is easy)?

Yes, please.

[FupDup]

Odanan, on 10 August 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

As the Thanatos proved, PGI has no problem with replacing C3 by armor. I would like to see the excluded variants.

Turns out that I already listed the C3 Slave variant (Alternate D), just forgot about it.

The C3 Master (Alternate C) and Improved C3 (Alternate E) variants are much harder to substitute out. PGI is very unlikely to use Brain Cancer's idea of TC4 + TAG as a replacement for Master, and IDK what the heck to even do with Improved C3 (2.5 tons and 2 slots). Maybe BAP + 1 ton of ammo or TC1, but that takes up more slots.

For curiosity sake though:

Alternate C: 1E (LA) + 1M (LT) + 1M (RT) + 1B (RA)
Alternate E: 2E (LA) + ECM (LT) + 1B (RA)

Other variants include stuff like torpedoes, Thunderbolts, and MMLs.

Edited by FupDup, 10 August 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[FupDup]

The mediums are finally done.



It's hilarious and sad that this thing has 7 tons of hardwired equipment. I don't see any real point in its existence.




The blatantly obvious meta choice with high mounts and enough hardpoints.




This thing is unique in that it can't slot anything in the LT. It has only three body parts with open slots. This might officially win the prize for worst critslot famine. IDK how to replace the hardwired Improved C3. In fact, the Alternate A variant has no slots to spare at all, meaning that my suggested BAP + TC1 cannot work. The only other idea I have is MPL + SL, but that seems to go against the spirit of the mech. This thing is dead before arrival because we can barely even build it.





Another silly SHS mech, and serious how many freaking IS Omnimechs have hardwired CASE? It's getting out of hand.




It's too slow for a medium mech, and you're going to run out of slots way faster than tons.

Edited by FupDup, 10 August 2017 - 02:07 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Going with what happened with the Adder, the Firestarter Omni likely won't have locked flamers. That does make things better, though it's going to IMHO very strongly resemble the Phoenix Hawk.

[FupDup]

I made an error with the Templar up above...the Alternate D shouldn't be listed because we don't have X-Pulse Lasers in MWO.

[CK16]

Thanks man! Got them updated on my omni thread!

[Sereglach]

I said it before and I'll say it again (and the Thanatos is even a big "I told you so" that it can be done). C3 in any form is NOT hard for PGI to replace. I even showed how PGI can EASILY replace 2xC3M on several mechs . . . even one that the base version was 2xC3M with maxed slots. Just look back a few pages to see how PGI can easily do it, even without giving any free energy hardpoints.

I still don't understand the big fuss about not including mechs with C3 on them as potential variants or for theory-crafting purposes.

[Zergling]

FupDup, on 10 August 2017 - 02:20 PM, said:

I made an error with the Templar up above...the Alternate D shouldn't be listed because we don't have X-Pulse Lasers in MWO.

X-Pulses can be replaced with regular Pulses.

[FupDup]

Zergling, on 11 August 2017 - 10:40 AM, said:

X-Pulses can be replaced with regular Pulses.

Yeah, but it would have to be a PGI variant instead of the actual Alternate D.

Sereglach, on 11 August 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

I said it before and I'll say it again (and the Thanatos is even a big "I told you so" that it can be done). C3 in any form is NOT hard for PGI to replace. I even showed how PGI can EASILY replace 2xC3M on several mechs . . . even one that the base version was 2xC3M with maxed slots. Just look back a few pages to see how PGI can easily do it, even without giving any free energy hardpoints.

I still don't understand the big fuss about not including mechs with C3 on them as potential variants or for theory-crafting purposes.

C3 Slave is easy to replace because it's the same size and slots as 1 ton of ammo. On most of my spreadsheets I decided to include those already.

C3 Master (5 tons 5 slots) and Improved C3 (2.5 tons 2 slots) are the harder ones.

[Sereglach]

FupDup, on 11 August 2017 - 10:42 AM, said:

C3 Slave is easy to replace because it's the same size and slots as 1 ton of ammo. On most of my spreadsheets I decided to include those already.

C3 Master (5 tons 5 slots) and Improved C3 (2.5 tons 2 slots) are the harder ones.

They're still really easy to replace.

C3M at 5 tons and 5 slots can be replaced with a comparable TC (quickest and easiest swap). However, there's the "argument" that it's not a TT legal swap.

However, there's plenty of other potential. ECM+BAP equals 3 tons at 4 slots, and then you can add a ton of ammo and armor. If it's an assault or heavy mech, with available head space, you can slap in a command console for 1 slot and 3 tons plus another 4 slots and 2 tons for any combination of things. Also in many cases so many cassis are so armor starved that much of the gap can be easily filled in with just straight armor adjustments. Given that, C3i is just as easy to replace and swap.

Again, if you go back a few pages (possibly quite a few at this point) to when this argument happened last time, I took some of the "hardest" variants out there and swapped out their C3 units to viable PGI builds with zero issues.

[FLG 01]

I would like to present the Brigand (25 tons, IS) and why I think it should be in MWO:

• it's 25 tons and we do not have many of those
  
• it's jump capable, unlike the other 25t Mech (the Commando)
  
• it's mostly an energy boat, again unlike the Commando
  
• it has good variants (including a missile boat; if PGI is somewhat liberal, they may replace the Angel ECM on one variants with a Guardian)
  
• hitboxes look solid
  
• its lore is just cool: it's a Pirate Mech!

It's really a perfect fit for MWO as far as gameplay is concerned. Effectively it is a Commando with JJ and more energy HP, which is pretty much what I want from a 25t Mech. But at the same time it does not totally obsolete the Commando, as its max engine rating is 210 and some Commandos can go faster.
It's hardpoints are not very high, but that's really not a big deal for a light Mech with this kind of mobility; it's not like you'd poke with a lumbering 75t Mech. They way light Mechs are played this disadvantage is neglectable. And other than that, I can't see any disadvantage. Even the distribution of the HP is good, spread over the STs and the arms. The -X1 actually has most of its firepower in the torso.

I personally like the pirate origins of the Mech a lot. In MWO with its Clan vs IS bias it is often overshadowed that the Periphery and the Pirates are an important part of this world. Also, Clanners hate Pirates and it would be a nice in-universe provocation.
Furthermore PGI' art department could really shine creating skins for the special-variant and the hero using the powerful and inspiring pirate-theme.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Brigand

[TheArisen]

FLG you've inspired me

Nexus, this is my favorite 25 tonner. Excellent loadout options, JJ, ECM variant, potentially good hitboxes and looks nifty.

[Odanan]

TheArisen, on 12 August 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Nexus, this is my favorite 25 tonner. Excellent loadout options, JJ, ECM variant, potentially good hitboxes and looks nifty.

I prefer mechs that have more variants, but this mech could work in a Nexus (3 variants) + Jackrabbit (2 "reinforcement" variants) pack.

[FLG 01]

Nexus+Jackrabbit would be very attractive due to the variety it offers. And I think this Mech would be quite good. There is, however, one big problem: the vast majority of the Nexus variants are centered on C3. Not just a slave, but a CPU, and it's important to the design of the Mech as such.
I am not really comfortable with changing the base characteristics of a Mech that much. (Also, Nexus is an Unseen from VMI and I am not sure what the legal status of the VMI-inspired Mechs is...).

I mean, I would probably buy it, because the Mech itself and its lore are really nice. I have a soft spot for those lost-and-found Mechs, and the RWR-origins make it even more unique. Having a hero-Mech in RWR-livery would be great!

Edited by FLG 01, 13 August 2017 - 09:57 AM.