20517 replies to this topic

[Juodas Varnas]

Welp, the next mech isn't the Scorpion, but a Hellspawn. Sad day for us all.

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 01 September 2017 - 09:39 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

Hitboxes are just brutal. Each segments are literally screaming "SHOOT ME HERE."

Both Uziel and Hellspawn will need massive quirks to be viable.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 01 September 2017 - 09:42 AM.

[Spheroid]

Didn't years ago Russ state that he wanted to finish the 3025 backlog before jumping into the future? Where is the Dervish? Where is the Charger or Hatamoto-Chi?

As both the upcoming Battletech game and MW5 are pre-Clan era games should we not be modeling their art assets first?

Edited by Spheroid, 01 September 2017 - 09:44 AM.

[The Lighthouse]

Actually, I just read the spec of Hellspawn, and these mechs have jumpjets and ECM. And the based on the history of PGI which overvalues jumpjets and ECM, they are not going to have any defensive quirks, and they will be definitely trash.

[Brain Cancer]

It's a sad, Scorpion-free day.

But I fully expected a MW4 robot to be announced, and there it is.

Lets take a looksee, shall we?

45 tons, three canon chassis options in terms of MWO's current tech level. 3062 introduction date. (Hmm, does that mean it's illegal for FW? ) This was designed to be a mini-Dervish, basically. Fully jump capable.

What's unusual is that all three, in MWO hardpoint terms, are virtually identical. Given it's a 45 tonner, this should be something like 3E + 4M and ECM comes standard.

The -7D is 3 MPLs + 2 LRM 10s.
(4E + 2M)
The -8E is 2 ERMLs, 1 MPL, and 2 Artemis-LRM 10s.
(3E + 2M)
The -9F is 3 MPLs, + 2 MRM 20's. Does NOT have ECM.
(3E + 4M)

The new variants- No ECM.

The -7P is 3 ERML, 1 ERSL, 2 Artemis-LRM 10s. It also has no jump capacity, and the only one with a cramped (CT) E hardpoint.
(5E+ 2M)
The -8P is 5 LRM 5's, 2 ERML.
(5M + 2E)

The hero:

-7D2 (with ECM) is 4 ERML, 2 ERSL, 2 RL 20.
(6E + 2M)

This makes them also effectively identical for modeling purposes, as all you do is stick one missile or energy weapon into any given hardpoint and done. Incredibly minimal effort needed, and the only differences really needed would be quirks.

The later 10G and 10SR use unavailable gear (MML's and improved jump jets, respectively) from outside the current tech era.


Edit: OK, got the full page now at https://mwomercs.com/hellspawn and added actual hardpoints.

Looks like they juggled hardpoint inflation to different locations depending on variant, and a lot of it feels almost mini-Archer, never mind the Dervish.

Edited by Brain Cancer, 01 September 2017 - 10:26 AM.

[Metus regem]

Brain Cancer, on 01 September 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

It's a sad, Scorpion-free day.

But I fully expected a MW4 robot to be announced, and there it is.

Lets take a looksee, shall we?

45 tons, three canon chassis options in terms of MWO's current tech level. 3062 introduction date. (Hmm, does that mean it's illegal for FW? ) This was designed to be a mini-Dervish, basically. Fully jump capable.

What's unusual is that all three, in MWO hardpoint terms, are virtually identical. Given it's a 45 tonner, this should be something like 3E + 4M and ECM comes standard.

The -7D is 3 MPLs + 2 LRM 10s.
The -8E is 2 ERMLs, 1 MPL, and 2 Artemis-LRM 10s.
The -9F is 3 MPLs, + 2 MRM 20's.

This makes them also effectively identical for modeling purposes, as all you do is stick one missile or energy weapon into any given hardpoint and done. Incredibly minimal effort needed, and the only differences really needed would be quirks.

The later 10G and 10SR use unavailable gear (MML's and improved jump jets, respectively) from outside the current tech era.

Looking at the raw basic stats of them, it looks like the -8E is going to be the best variant in terms of hard points.

3E
3M
6xJJ
1xECM
1xAMS

Endo and DHS taxes are already payed, so no hidden costs there... decent max engine size of 355. If I get one, I'll likely set it to a 275 or 300... Likely needs to add FF as an added tax.


The real question is how are the hit boxes going to work out...

As we know the external missile drum is arm mounted, and that laser under the cockpit is RT mounted... I can see this thing having great CT shielding from the right side with little to no CT shielding from the left side... We also know that the recessed missile launcher on the left is LT mounted, so this leads me to think that the CT is going to be very narrow from the front, but a barn door when shooting at it from the left side.

This one is going to be interesting to see how it shakes out with the models.



Edit:

After looking at my TRO entry for the Hellspawn, it seems that the hero unit we are getting is inspired by a canonical custom Hellspawn at least.... It's a take on Greta Helperin's unit from TT, sans Angel ECM, rear facing lasers and coolent pods... Perhaps it'll come with some cool shots?

Edited by Metus regem, 01 September 2017 - 10:40 AM.

[Odanan]

Alex Iglesias, you little devil. You have been playing Don't Starve lately...

Loved the paintjob! Hellspawn indeed!

And this mech... it really looks as it's made of the stuff of nightmares.

[Odanan]

Looking at the stats, the "ear" missile box is actually in the arm... interesting... it might not have really bad hitboxes after all (at least for the right torso). I don't know.. the thing is so deformed it's actually cute.

[Requiemking]

Odanan, on 01 September 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Looking at the stats, the "ear" missile box is actually in the arm... interesting... it might not have really bad hitboxes after all (at least for the right torso). I don't know.. the thing is so deformed it's actually cute.

It's not bad. I would have preferred the Sha Yu, but this isn't too bad. My main complaint here is that its yet another MW4 nostalgia trip mech, although this one might not fail as bad as the Uziel did.

[Brain Cancer]

Imagine how weird the RA launcher shot angles are going to be. You could possibly fire the missiles without exposing anything else on the 'Mech, since it's both higher than and to the side of everything else.

[Metus regem]

Brain Cancer, on 01 September 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

Imagine how weird the RA launcher shot angles are going to be. You could possibly fire the missiles without exposing anything else on the 'Mech, since it's both higher than and to the side of everything else.

Yup, like I said this is one that is going to be interesting to see how it shakes out in game.

[Sereglach]

I still think it's FUGLY. Also, with those huge hitbox additions when you plug a missile launcher into the arms, I wouldn't want to rely on arm mounted weapons too much for most of the configurations. Just imagining the 9F with 2M hardpoints in the RA makes me want to cringe. However, most people will probably rip those out and only use torso missiles, if any. This isn't MW4; and losing that blatantly obvious ST is going to kill the mech with XL. Also, I don't expect huge quirks (some quirks, sure, but not huge ones) for it because someone will say that the arm does a great job shielding the torso.

So, again, most of the "strengths" the mech had have already been lost by the time you get it into MWO. This is especially the case after you add all the missing armor and drop the XL for a LFE . . . because you're going to need to with the RT stuck out screaming to be isolated and shot off.

When it comes to the PGI made variants, they erred on the side of making them junk, in personal opinion. One has no JJ or ECM (some of the only other strengths of the Hellspawn), while the other has JJ but no ECM and is almost entirely missile dependent. In fact, the one with no JJ or ECM doesn't even get a larger engine cap or anything to make up for it. Either they're going to be junk, or they're going to be the only variants to get decent quirks.

For the people who wanted it . . . good for you and glad you got it. I'm in the camp of those who see it as a sad day. Well, at least there's nothing that'd actually tempt me into opening my wallet, so I don't have to be torn on sticking to my guns.

[Bishop Steiner]

Odanan, on 31 August 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

SCA?

Spoiler

(I use to fight with a nice spear I made myself)

Say what you will...

We fight, we drink, we wench.

As we sing around the campfire... "If ya can't get laid in the SCA, you'll never get laid at all"...

Nerds should be so lucky. Maybe you should come out of your mom's basement and find out!

Sereglach, on 01 September 2017 - 11:41 AM, said:

I still think it's FUGLY. Also, with those huge hitbox additions when you plug a missile launcher into the arms, I wouldn't want to rely on arm mounted weapons too much for most of the configurations. Just imagining the 9F with 2M hardpoints in the RA makes me want to cringe. However, most people will probably rip those out and only use torso missiles, if any. This isn't MW4; and losing that blatantly obvious ST is going to kill the mech with XL. Also, I don't expect huge quirks (some quirks, sure, but not huge ones) for it because someone will say that the arm does a great job shielding the torso.

So, again, most of the "strengths" the mech had have already been lost by the time you get it into MWO. This is especially the case after you add all the missing armor and drop the XL for a LFE . . . because you're going to need to with the RT stuck out screaming to be isolated and shot off.

When it comes to the PGI made variants, they erred on the side of making them junk, in personal opinion. One has no JJ or ECM (some of the only other strengths of the Hellspawn), while the other has JJ but no ECM and is almost entirely missile dependent. In fact, the one with no JJ or ECM doesn't even get a larger engine cap or anything to make up for it. Either they're going to be junk, or they're going to be the only variants to get decent quirks.

For the people who wanted it . . . good for you and glad you got it. I'm in the camp of those who see it as a sad day. Well, at least there's nothing that'd actually tempt me into opening my wallet, so I don't have to be torn on sticking to my guns.

OK, you don't like it.

Noted.

So... don't buy/play it? I mean why is it a sad day? Because you didn't get a mech you wanted? OK.... um, so what?

Doesn't seem so hard. *shrugs*

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 September 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[Metus regem]

To expand upon what I was saying about the -8E Hellspawn, using a Pixi 1B as a base to work with stat wise, this is a theoretical build I'd likely put on it for c-bills:

Stealth armour (full, save for two points off for rounding reasons)
300 LFE
3x ERML
6x JJ
ECM
ASM/6 with 1t ammo.


This would give it 108km/h ground speed with a jump of 70m with a decent close in punch.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 01 September 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

To expand upon what I was saying about the -8E Hellspawn, using a Pixi 1B as a base to work with stat wise, this is a theoretical build I'd likely put on it for c-bills:

Stealth armour (full, save for two points off for rounding reasons)
300 LFE
3x ERML
6x JJ
ECM
ASM/6 with 1t ammo.


This would give it 108km/h ground speed with a jump of 70m with a decent close in punch.

3MLs and a single SRM6 seems a bit light for 45 tonner to me

[Metus regem]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

3MLs and a single SRM6 seems a bit light for 45 tonner to me

The price I pay for taking a LFE is sacking some fire power....

My gut is just telling me from front and right side she is going to be all ST.... So I want it to be able to take a hit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Metus regem, on 01 September 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

The price I pay for taking a LFE is sacking some fire power....

My gut is just telling me from front and right side she is going to be all ST.... So I want it to be able to take a hit.

yeah... if she can't XL she might indeed be in trouble.

[Sereglach]

Bishop Steiner, on 01 September 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

OK, you don't like it.

Noted.

So... don't buy/play it? I mean why is it a sad day? Because you didn't get a mech you wanted? OK.... um, so what?

Doesn't seem so hard. *shrugs*

Ok, so you don't like the Berserker, and many of the artwork on mechs, and plenty of other things you've complained about. So what? We should care why?

Oh . . . right . . . people are just making voices heard and providing opinions; because a whole 878 page thread about opinions should denounce or refuse to acknowledge one opinion because it isn't yours.

Seriously, if you want to have a debate about opinions, fine, but just being dismissive of someone's opinion to be dismissive is rather pathetic. Now, if you want an actual conversation about the mech, lets have one. Why do you love it so much, or what do you think is so amazing? Right now even the builds being shown aren't all that impressive.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sereglach, on 01 September 2017 - 03:33 PM, said:

Ok, so you don't like the Berserker, and many of the artwork on mechs, and plenty of other things you've complained about. So what? We should care why?

Oh . . . right . . . people are just making voices heard and providing opinions; because a whole 878 page thread about opinions should denounce or refuse to acknowledge one opinion because it isn't yours.

Seriously, if you want to have a debate about opinions, fine, but just being dismissive of someone's opinion to be dismissive is rather pathetic. Now, if you want an actual conversation about the mech, lets have one. Why do you love it so much, or what do you think is so amazing? Right now even the builds being shown aren't all that impressive.

and that makes you a SAD PANDA, boohoo, got it.

I'd point out the difference between me making a jokingly disparaging reply directly to something Odanan said toward one of my own posts, to your "Boohoo the sky is falling because they made another robot I don't like" post, but since past experience has told me you won't get the point... why bother?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 September 2017 - 03:48 PM.

[Odanan]

Oh guys, keep it civil.