20517 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

Odanan, on 25 March 2018 - 08:58 PM, said:

I really don't care about MetaMechs. I just want my Wasp (and Crusader).

But you should care about fun, shouldn't you? If a Mech is too bad, you won't enjoy it much in game. Look at how few people are having fun their Uziel or Hellspawn or Thanatos. (Though, in all fairness, they are rarely as bad as people claim; but they are surely not good).

The incovienent truth is that a Mech needs to be good enough to be enjoyable in the environment of MWO. Perhaps not meta (an abused and overused term anyway), but certainly 'good enough'. Overly bad Mechs contribute very, very little to the game or the fun people have while playing the game.

[Odanan]

FLG 01, on 26 March 2018 - 03:24 AM, said:

But you should care about fun, shouldn't you? If a Mech is too bad, you won't enjoy it much in game. Look at how few people are having fun their Uziel or Hellspawn or Thanatos. (Though, in all fairness, they are rarely as bad as people claim; but they are surely not good).

The incovienent truth is that a Mech needs to be good enough to be enjoyable in the environment of MWO. Perhaps not meta (an abused and overused term anyway), but certainly 'good enough'. Overly bad Mechs contribute very, very little to the game or the fun people have while playing the game.

Any mech can be good with quirks. But that depends on the PGI's good will.

[Metus regem]

Odanan, on 26 March 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Any mech can be good with quirks. But that depends on the PGI's good will.

And that's a problem, as often the quirks PGI applies have very little in common with the lore of the mech. *cough* general ballistic quirks on the Warhammer 6R *cough*

Now if the quirks supported stock load outs as well as the known quirks of the mechs, then each mech should be able to stand as being viable.... mind you other core game mechanics would need to be adjusted to support that too...

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 26 March 2018 - 04:33 AM, said:

Any mech can be good with quirks. But that depends on the PGI's good will.

Sure but it's just crazy to depend on Pgi to give it enough quirks or in general that it's quirk dependent. The Hollander is the new face of quirk dependent mechs that "look" awesome (I don't but a fair number of people see a walking cannon and think cool).

The thing is it would need super strong defensive & offensive quirks just to be decent. Beyond Urbie defense quirks and old Grid Iron level quirks. (Super gauss cooldown) and add a large ammo quirk because as it is it would have a maximum damage potential of 600. But look at the Grid Iron once it lost it's quirks, it disapeared. Remember Pgi doesn't want to giga quirk mechs anymore.

So you'd have a slow, weakly armed, easily destroyed mech (because you need XL to use the Gauss).

I'm not saying don't ask/vote for your nostalgia mechs but rather temper that with how good those mechs would actually be in game.

Metus regem, on 26 March 2018 - 04:40 AM, said:

And that's a problem, as often the quirks PGI applies have very little in common with the lore of the mech. *cough* general ballistic quirks on the Warhammer 6R *cough*

Now if the quirks supported stock load outs as well as the known quirks of the mechs, then each mech should be able to stand as being viable.... mind you other core game mechanics would need to be adjusted to support that too...

Well originally quirks supported the lore builds but balance is more important.

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 26 March 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Well originally quirks supported the lore builds but balance is more important.

That's why i mentioned core game play mechanics might need adjusting.

Say mechs had a central health pool (Like WoWS/WoT/WoWP) with sections that could be damaged or destroyed depending on damage sustained or out right killed (like getting an ammo explosion in WoWS), give am area with set deviation between torso mounted hard points, with arm hard points allowing for conversion.

From there, mechs like the Awesome could be buffed with quirks to make it the terror it should be, huge health pool and massive cooling quirks to make those PPCs sing for days, on the flip side the Warhammer wouldn't have as large as a health pool as say an Archer, but it'd have better weapon quriks and cooling for PPC's and lasers.

But yea, I dream big and I am under no illusion that PGI is capable of doing or inclined to meet what I see as a possibility to make MWO something more than minimally viable.

[Odanan]

Metus regem, on 26 March 2018 - 09:27 AM, said:

That's why i mentioned core game play mechanics might need adjusting. Say mechs had a central health pool (Like WoWS/WoT/WoWP) with sections that could be damaged or destroyed depending on damage sustained or out right killed (like getting an ammo explosion in WoWS), give am area with set deviation between torso mounted hard points, with arm hard points allowing for conversion. From there, mechs like the Awesome could be buffed with quirks to make it the terror it should be, huge health pool and massive cooling quirks to make those PPCs sing for days, on the flip side the Warhammer wouldn't have as large as a health pool as say an Archer, but it'd have better weapon quriks and cooling for PPC's and lasers. But yea, I dream big and I am under no illusion that PGI is capable of doing or inclined to meet what I see as a possibility to make MWO something more than minimally viable.

I wouldn't go that far.

A more active and bolder quirkening/dequirkening would fix the problem. Is the Black Lanner under-performing? Well, double the quirks (I'm exaggerating here, but you got the idea).

It's just a matter of increasing or decreasing some numbers.

[FLG 01]

Well, yes, quirks can save every Mech. And if a Mech is in game, it should be quirked to make it a viable choice. That's PGI's responsibility.

On the other hand we should not ignore the community's responsibility. There is a difference between an already decent Mech in need of some quirks to be decent in MWO, and a very bad Mech which needs godlike quirks just to make it not completely useless in MWO. And one cannot simply ask for the worst Mech, expecting PGI and godlike quirks to save the day/Mech.
The likelihood of not being disappointed with a Mech's performance, and thus likelihood of actually the enjoying it, increases if one chooses an already decent design and decreases if one chooses a bad design. There are exceptions, like the Annihilator and its insane quirks (including the engine cap), but the line-up of IS MW:4 originals in MWO proved this point again and again.

PS: the Black Lanners I saw underperformed because most of the pilots were simply not competent in the kind of playstyle the Mech requires. The behaved like they had a heavy or slower medium, with predictable results. It is another case of "Think about what Mech you really want in game". If you are not a cavalryman this Mech is not for you.

[Odanan]

BTW, 5 days for the next mech.

Probably Clan. Probably light or medium. I don't think PGI will announce 2 lights in a row (we just got the Flea), so... what medium mech will be?

My bets: Vapor Eagle or MW4's Hellhound.

[Brain Cancer]

I'd think we're most likely to see a MW4 design to keep the nostalgia kick going.

[Ovion]

Urbanmech IIc.

[Odanan]

Ovion, on 28 March 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Urbanmech IIc.

[TheArisen]

Odanan, on 28 March 2018 - 01:00 PM, said:

BTW, 5 days for the next mech.

Probably Clan. Probably light or medium. I don't think PGI will announce 2 lights in a row (we just got the Flea), so... what medium mech will be?

My bets: Vapor Eagle or MW4's Hellhound.

If the Clans get the Vapor Eagle after the IS got the Flea I'll fall into a deep depression for a few days.

[Brain Cancer]

I know, it won't be the Urbanmech IIC.

Because that's not 40-55 tons. Even if it's the coolest thing not yet in the Clan arsenal.

The Conjurer/Hellhound/Wolverine IIC is just about perfect in filling all the bills- Clan medium, MW4-era design, has five different legit stock variations and reasonable hardpoints to go with them, plus Alex would likely do his usual lovely job of reworking the modeling with new art.

[Metus regem]

TheArisen, on 28 March 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

If the Clans get the Vapor Eagle after the IS got the Flea I'll fall into a deep depression for a few days.

I'd also fit the pattern of IS giving ourselves the shaft while clans get good stuff....

[Juodas Varnas]

I'm betting on the Urbie IIC.

On April 1st.
Calling it.

[Odanan]

Juodas Varnas, on 28 March 2018 - 11:39 PM, said:

I'm betting on the Urbie IIC.

On April 1st.
Calling it.

LOL.

[Karl Streiger]

Its april, I'm pretty sure they will make a Aprils Fool about Quads?

[TheArisen]

Metus regem, on 28 March 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

I'd also fit the pattern of IS giving ourselves the shaft while clans get good stuff....

I was decently happy we're getting the Fapnir but yeah I agree. The only worse thing could of been the IS getting the Hollander but in spite of the lessons we've been getting people still clamor for it even though they won't use it two months after it drops.

[Juodas Varnas]

Karl Streiger, on 29 March 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

Its april, I'm pretty sure they will make a Aprils Fool about Quads?

The best april 1st joke would be announcing quads and actually going through with it.

[Metus regem]

Karl Streiger, on 29 March 2018 - 02:36 AM, said:

Its april, I'm pretty sure they will make a Aprils Fool about Quads?

After what happened with the Urbanmech, I think PGI will be leery about using mechs for April fools again....

TheArisen, on 29 March 2018 - 08:20 AM, said:

I was decently happy we're getting the Fapnir but yeah I agree. The only worse thing could of been the IS getting the Hollander but in spite of the lessons we've been getting people still clamor for it even though they won't use it two months after it drops.

Yup... and they all claim that if it comes with God Quirks it'll be good... I see the issue with it needing god quirks in the first place to be viable... Can you imagine how well the Annihilator would be doing if they stripped the quirks it has to the level that the Atlas has? I bet my mech collection it would vanish from the field over night.