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Cw Thunderbolts For Days!


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#101 Cer6erus

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:07 PM

10 vs 12 was all I ever wanted in this game.

#102 R Razor

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:12 PM

View PostKirkland Langue, on 21 December 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Start talking about nerfing Clan mechs, and Clanners cry foul.
So PGI buffs IS mechs to be on par with Clan mechs..... and Clanners cry foul.

I still believe that it should have been 10v12, and this thread reinforces that thought.



Because most clanners need that advantage to win.........take it away and they go back to being average like everyone else.

#103 MischiefSC

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:26 PM

View PostCer6erus, on 21 December 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

All very true statements. (@mischeif)It just feels cheep and dirty that some IS mechs are only good due to ridiculous buffs that are in no way well thought out. I feel that the ballistics of the clans are weak, and the laser duration is long as ****. The SRM's are great, but the LRMS don't feel like they do anything. However for half the tonnage, if they were the same it would be nuts. I use my K2 to as good effect as I use my timberwolf. 4MLAS and two AC10's 40 pinpoint damage with super short laser duration vs 5MLAS and a UAC10 on the timberwolf.
Timbie has better range and overall damage, but K2 is much more pinpoint and feels brutal to play with. Everytime the dual AC10's go off, I feel like I tore a hole out of a mech, vs the UAC10 double burst is spread all over the place. Each side has pros and cons. I just feel that we should focus on things like that, rather then, *here, have 50% less heat on weapon X*


TW is good because it's got insane hardpoint options, phenomenal setup for weapon options. The omnipods are insane buffs. As is CXL.

The difference is semantics. They are the unique mechanics that make the mech good at something. If TWs only has max 5 hardpoints to split between energy, missile and ballistic, would it be nearly as good? How about no JJs (or associated broken JJ animation)?

It's no different, just IS mechs you have to buy the whole mech to get the one perk. A single TW can fill the slot of 4 or even 6 IS mechs depending on the loadout. Same with Stormcrow.

#104 MischiefSC

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:30 PM

10 v 12 was never going to work. Creates a direct progression - Clan mechs are better so everyone moves to Clans when they can afford them. All the best players are in Clan mechs, nobody wants to play against them even 10 v 12 save Joe Mallan and a few friends.

So you need 20% more IS players than Clan players for that to work when what you'll get is everyone who can getting into Clans to be the superhero mode, swatting down thugs. So you'll end up with almost everyone in Clans and new players plus Joe and a fwe friends getting facerolled by Clanners who wait 30 minutes for their turn to do the same. How long will new players stay for that?

#105 Brody319

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:48 PM

View PostR Razor, on 21 December 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:



Because most clanners need that advantage to win.........take it away and they go back to being average like everyone else.


More like Clans come out, IS ******* till the IS gets buffed.
Then continues to ***** about the Clans.

#106 R Razor

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:57 PM

View PostBrody319, on 21 December 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:


More like Clans come out, IS ******* till the IS gets buffed.
Then continues to ***** about the Clans.



Except this thread is Clan whining about IS having a decent mech that almost matches the best mech in the game.........so no, you're wrong as usual.

#107 Phlinger

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:46 PM

View PostBrody319, on 21 December 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:


More like Clans come out, IS ******* till the IS gets buffed.
Then continues to ***** about the Clans.


This is it exactly. IS will whine and complain until Clans have nothing left and then IF the Clans ever win a game after that, IS will still complain because Clans are still OP'd.

Not that I don't like the Thunderbolt. It, the Orion and the Griffin were always my favorite IS mechs, but I still think it's strange, I have old screenshots of me pulling 5-7 kill games in those mechs before the quirks. Me thinks people just want the mech to make their game instead of the player just getting better.

#108 Metus regem

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:53 PM

View PostKirkland Langue, on 21 December 2014 - 05:53 PM, said:

Start talking about nerfing Clan mechs, and Clanners cry foul.
So PGI buffs IS mechs to be on par with Clan mechs..... and Clanners cry foul.

I still believe that it should have been 10v12, and this thread reinforces that thought.


I actually enjoy the extra challenge from IS mechs now, but I do find a few of them a little over the top. How ever that is partly due to how some of the clan mechs have been handled. In my view the War Hawk should be better at the PPC game than the Awesome.

#109 Zordicron

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:59 PM

I dunno, I had roughly 2/1 K/D in my t-bolts before the quirks. Mostly you can thank the meta try hard crowd for the quirks t-bolts got. It is funny too, because of all the "CW is for the try hard" banter thrown around too.

Anyway, it is also comical to me the ERPPC, which was seen as a toxic substance in the game before CW because it was so hot and so slow it couldn't be used (supposedly) is suddenly OP and the T-bolt running it needs to be nerfed. So to recap, one of the worst mechs in the game gets quirks for one of the worst direct fire weapons in the game, and now clan guys are sad? C'mon man.

either try hards were wrong in their consultations with PGI on the mech tiers initially, and the T-bolt did not warrant the quirks it got, or the try hards were right and people are crying foul because IS pilots are finally starting to realize having a weapon that can match clan range might be helpful to their cause.

Plus, you know, an ERPPC is maybe just a bit harder to aim at 1000M then an insta-hit clan ERLL eh? It's funny, the meta try hard guys run "the most effective" loadouts, but a significant part of that said loadout has to do with ease of use. thats why PPC's went out of favor to ERLL once the PPC speeds got nerfed, and also when laser hSR was patched up. Lasers are freegin EASY to aim, you just click when the corsshair is over your foe, no leads, no nothing, maybe hold target for duration, and that is only tricky in the slightest on speedy mechs. WUB lasers even easier, the duration is shorter yet.

So I run triple ERPPC t-bolt in my drop deck. I will put down 1000+ dmg on your clans, and ruin your advances. too bad, I can hit you with slow ass ERPPC at 1000M out without advanced zoom crutch, with a stupid ISP induced ping over 350. I don't care if you want my quirks reduced, I will still beat yo ass down, because I am not some meta laser vomit chump that needs easy to use mechs or weapons to wreck it.

You chose clans, and I don't feel bad for you when suddenly in CW people are running the only weapon that can out range a clan ERLL. I don't feel bad for you that you can;t sit at max range with your ERLL mechs and not take any return fire, that you can;t snipe with super easy to aim lasers with little risk of significant return damage like you used to do in the old game modes.

Really mad about t-bolts sniping you? bring a Warhawk Prime, they can easily match range and can return fire at almost the same rate but trade a little bit of that rate for splash dmg output when they hit. (4 vs 3 ppc, can't maintain fire qite as long but over all dmg output is similar, delivered in that shorter window of heat because of splash dmg)

But you won't, because "peacedoves are bads" and you want to win using your timberderps.

IT'S CW! WHEN ONE SIDE USES A TACTIC MORE AND MORE, ADAPT TO COUNTER IT! Hell IS did, I was right in there on day one with my ERPPC t-bolt because why the hell wouldn't i bring the longest range weapon available on at least one dropdeck mech? it helped I liked the t-bolt to begin with and had planned on bringing heavy mechs instead of assaults because of 240 tons. Turns out assaulting a base that confines the defenders doesn't play out like the old game modes eh?

Every thread I read about cry wha wha's in CW turns out to be people that want to play their loadouts exactly like they did in skirmish mode with 12 vs 12 and no objectives to meet. I sincerely hope PGI does not cave in to these people and keeps CW distinct in tactics and load outs etc for the invasion game mode.

#110 Demuder

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 03:15 AM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 20 December 2014 - 06:38 PM, said:

Maybe once i stop seeing clan teams with at least 50% timbers ALL GAME.


View PostAlistair Winter, on 20 December 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

This is what happens when PGI wants to buff every mech in the game to be almost as good as the Timber Wolf (but not quite as good, because reasons), instead of just nerfing the Timber Wolf.


Just picked two posts to quote. I would love to have an alternative to leave my TBR and SCR - even just for variety - and drop with something else. Can you please provide me with an alternative dropdeck (builds as well ofc) that is not outright outclassed by the current IS, that a Clanner can drop with ? It's not as simple as "bring a Direwolf". Ok, what should I bring with the leftover 140 tons ? 3 Adders ? Oh, right... a Summoner !

Funny how those nerfing threads provide us with no solution to this. Please tells us which and how the rest of the Clan mechs should be buffed to give Clans a fighting chance and a reason to leave the TBR and SCR home. Btw, the main reason you see so many SCRs around is because after putting one TBR in, you are left with no other choices. The SCR itself is not all that great really, very good, but certainly not OP. It's good for backstabbing then running the hell out of there to cool down, I'll give you that.

Just like complaining about "laservomit". Please tell us what else we can use. Go on, give it a try. How come noone is asking for a buff to the Clan hitscan ACs ?

Edited by Demuder, 22 December 2014 - 03:17 AM.


#111 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 03:27 AM

View PostMechaBattler, on 20 December 2014 - 07:25 PM, said:

Nerf TimberCrow and then we'll talk. Excuse me, I need to go buy Thunderbolts >_>
Ok that looks better to me! :lol:

#112 Alistair Winter

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 06:00 AM

View PostDemuder, on 22 December 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

Just like complaining about "laservomit". Please tell us what else we can use. Go on, give it a try. How come noone is asking for a buff to the Clan hitscan ACs ?

With my Clan account, I usually run one of the following decks:

Adder (35) + Hellbringer (65) + Mad Dog (60) + Summoner (70) = 230
Warhawk (85) + Mist Lynx (25) + Hellbringer (65) + Mad Dog (60) = 235
Adder (35) + Mad Dog (60) + Hellbringer (65) + Hellbringer (65) = 225

Yeah, the Mist Lynx sucks. But sometimes you don't need all 4 mechs. Especially if one of them is a Warhawk.

#113 Akula

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:34 AM

Thunderbolt is pin point damage. Laser Vom is hitscan. These two methods of damage are not equal. Pin point always wins out, nothing new there.

Nothing wrong with the Thunderbolt being powerful, but giving it superior pin point capability it's going to stick out like a sore thumb in terms of effectiveness.

You try to run pin point on a T-wolf or S-crow you will not match the Thunderbolts ability to trade with pinpoint.

#114 Mott

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 07:39 AM

View PostBrody319, on 20 December 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

I think it would be better if they reduced the heat reduction a bit, maybe 30-40%. then make it for PPCs not ERPPCs.

Then it will run decent but will suffer in brawling range.


lol

Right... please PGI, destroy the ONE 'sphere chassis able to actually come even remotely close to equaling the ranged damage that the clan mechs can pump out.

#115 Sigmar Sich

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:06 AM

I dont like TDR-5SS and TDR-9S being overquirked, though i piloting only IS, and TDRs are my only main heavies. There should be better solution, then quirking sphere tech to equal clantech.
Maybe more structure and armor hitpoints for IS, i believe. Keep most of cooling generic quirks. Dismiss weapon range and velocity quirks.
Good balance keeps things different, but both capable. Bad balance keeps things the same as others.

#116 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:25 AM

View PostKruiser, on 22 December 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Thunderbolt is pin point damage. Laser Vom is hitscan. These two methods of damage are not equal. Pin point always wins out, nothing new there.

Nothing wrong with the Thunderbolt being powerful, but giving it superior pin point capability it's going to stick out like a sore thumb in terms of effectiveness.

You try to run pin point on a T-wolf or S-crow you will not match the Thunderbolts ability to trade with pinpoint.


Gonna have to go with 'no' here. At the ranges of engagement on maps like Boreal, Clan long range laser vomit is far easier to keep on a target than shooting ERPPC's.

#117 Artifact

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:38 AM

I just spent 5 days playing as CJF and 5 playing in the FRR.

The IS quirks are absurdly overpowered. I dropped in PUGs on both sides for the duration. Generally speaking, the Clan players are better organized, and come with MUCH better optimized mechs. I see /most/ clan PUG players adopting drop decks tailored for CW rather than skirmishes. Once I got my TDR ranked up and got re-acclimated to IS mechs (and it took some time), I was regularly hitting 1500 damage in PUG groups with a TDR-TDR-TDR-Firestarter deck.

On the IS side, I see the same mechs that I see for urban combat in skirmish. I see IS players dropping the first drop on a counter attack in a KGC with 2 AC20s mounted, along with a jenner and a hunchback and some other random mech. Terrible, TERRIBLE mech selection, and they are loaded out for short range brawling, and wondering why they were getting wrecked by 12-mans running group setups optimized for ranged combat.

I see XL Atlases running around. Very occasionally, in the IS side, I'd get dropped in with a 10 or 11 man premade. Then, you know what I saw? NOTHING but TDRs and Firestarter A's. On defense, there were ERPPC gunlines that racked up 12-15 kills before the gates were ever breached on Boreal. On offense, the kills would generally be in favor of the is /attackers/ by the time the gates were breached.

You know why clan mechs (the platforms themselves) are better? Two reasons: They all run XL and can lose a torso and keep fighting, and they can run both endosteel and ferrofibrous and still have a reasonable number of slots available. This is why the SCR and TBR are so good.

One of two things needs to happen: IS quirks for the carp mentioned by the OP need to be severely reduced, or Clan omnimechs need to be truly user configurable, including changing engine size, and adding and subtracting endo steel and ferro fibrous armor.

TL;DR: Some of the IS quirks are absurdly, blatantly, brokenly overpowered. Clantech has been nerfed to the point that it is useless, except for XL, FF, and Endosteel. Most of the problems have to do with PUGs versus 12 mans.

Edited by Artifact, 22 December 2014 - 09:05 AM.


#118 Akula

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:39 AM

View PostGhost Badger, on 22 December 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:


Gonna have to go with 'no' here. At the ranges of engagement on maps like Boreal, Clan long range laser vomit is far easier to keep on a target than shooting ERPPC's.


With base PPC speed, which is why you don't see them competitively on clan mechs. But starting throwing quirks to bump this speed up and it's perfectly fine. And at any range a PPC always does it's damage to one location. With lasers it's easy to spread that damage across your entire mech. If you are getting cored out by laser vom without losing the majority of your torso/arm armour first you need to improve your damage spread skills.

Played some drops against [228] (best IS team in the game right now in my opinion) on Boreal last night (yes they dropped with 12 TDR-9S's) and their players were more than capable of hitting targets from beyond short range.

Edited by Kruiser, 22 December 2014 - 08:40 AM.


#119 AlmightyAeng

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:45 AM

View PostKruiser, on 22 December 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:


With base PPC speed, which is why you don't see them competitively on clan mechs. But starting throwing quirks to bump this speed up and it's perfectly fine. And at any range a PPC always does it's damage to one location. With lasers it's easy to spread that damage across your entire mech. If you are getting cored out by laser vom without losing the majority of your torso/arm armour first you need to improve your damage spread skills.

Played some drops against [228] (best IS team in the game right now in my opinion) on Boreal last night (yes they dropped with 12 TDR-9S's) and their players were more than capable of hitting targets from beyond short range.


Shrug. I still blame the map, not the tech, and it's only attacking intelligent clanners on Boreal that frustrates me. Long sightlines, long-range weapons, MUCH better positioning on defense for everyone to focus fire on an approach that allows 2-3 attacking mechs to get to the gate gen at a time.

Yeah, you CAN aim ERPPC just fine, but aim those 3ERPPC Thuds at 12 guys all vomiting ERLL at you concurrently. Torso twist all you want, enjoy losing an arm/torso just to get a 30 pt. alpha onto the generator, lol.

If I ran clans I'd do that SAME thing. It plays to every strength they have on that map.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 22 December 2014 - 08:46 AM.


#120 Brody319

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 09:11 AM

everyone keeps bringing up the fact that on Vault the extra range of the clan weapons gives them the advantage.
Yet no one mentions Sulfur, you know where you are almost instantly in brawling ranges the second you enter the doors.
IS with quirks tend to be able to out brawl most clan mechs anyway so we got 2 maps, 1 where clans have the advantage and 1 where IS has the advantage. so why keep complaining about one map when the other favors your side anyway?



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