229 replies to this topic

[Artifact]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 09:11 AM, said:

everyone keeps bringing up the fact that on Vault the extra range of the clan weapons gives them the advantage.
Yet no one mentions Sulfur, you know where you are almost instantly in brawling ranges the second you enter the doors.
IS with quirks tend to be able to out brawl most clan mechs anyway so we got 2 maps, 1 where clans have the advantage and 1 where IS has the advantage. so why keep complaining about one map when the other favors your side anyway?

That's why you only ever hear the IS players complaining about Boreal. My own PUG v PUG accounting has a nearly identical assault win % and defense win % on IS compared to Clan. The difference is Boreal versus Sulfur. IS owns the latter map, all things being equal. Boreal favors the Clans.

Then again, IS players are starting to understand how broken the Stalker ERLL quirks are, and adjusting their drop decks, and smoking Twolves at their own hitscan game on Boreal on assault.

The IS quirks are /broken./

Edited by Artifact, 22 December 2014 - 09:40 AM.

[Demuder]

Alistair Winter, on 22 December 2014 - 06:00 AM, said:

With my Clan account, I usually run one of the following decks:

Adder (35) + Hellbringer (65) + Mad Dog (60) + Summoner (70) = 230
Warhawk (85) + Mist Lynx (25) + Hellbringer (65) + Mad Dog (60) = 235
Adder (35) + Mad Dog (60) + Hellbringer (65) + Hellbringer (65) = 225

Yeah, the Mist Lynx sucks. But sometimes you don't need all 4 mechs. Especially if one of them is a Warhawk.

I am glad you enjoy your mechs. However, put yourself in the following for a sec

Firestarter (35) + TDR (65) + DRG (60) + CTF3D/IM (70)
STK/BLR (85) + LCT (20) + TDR-UltraWub (65) + DRG (60)
Firestarter (35) + DRG (60) + TDR-UltraWub (65) + TDR-UltraPPC (65)

Would you even stand a chance playing against yourself against those setups ? I am not saying nerf the quirks or anything, it's just that the TBR combo seems inescapable to me. Maybe the TBR is the best heavy around, granted. Guess what, it's not that much greater than a TDR or an Orion (my personal favorite) and one mech is going to be best anyway, no matter how you slice it, unless ofc balance = exactly same.

Btw, I think one King Crab or one Stalker alone could smoke all your 4 mechs if played on the same skill level and one after the other - in a CW setting with set objectives ofc.

[C E Dwyer]

Its so great to have clans QQing over Is mechs

[Artifact]

Demuder, on 22 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

I am glad you enjoy your mechs. However, put yourself in the following for a sec

Firestarter (35) + TDR (65) + DRG (60) + CTF3D/IM (70)
STK/BLR (85) + LCT (20) + TDR-UltraWub (65) + DRG (60)
Firestarter (35) + DRG (60) + TDR-UltraWub (65) + TDR-UltraPPC (65)

Would you even stand a chance playing against yourself against those setups ? I am not saying nerf the quirks or anything, it's just that the TBR combo seems inescapable to me. Maybe the TBR is the best heavy around, granted. Guess what, it's not that much greater than a TDR or an Orion (my personal favorite) and one mech is going to be best anyway, no matter how you slice it, unless ofc balance = exactly same.

Btw, I think one King Crab or one Stalker alone could smoke all your 4 mechs if played on the same skill level and one after the other - in a CW setting with set objectives ofc.

IS players lose sight of the fact that there are many chassis options for IS players. Clan players generally have, at best, one mech per weight, and 2 or 3 (at best) mechs per weight class.

[Deadfire]

Kruiser, on 22 December 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

With base PPC speed, which is why you don't see them competitively on clan mechs. But starting throwing quirks to bump this speed up and it's perfectly fine. And at any range a PPC always does it's damage to one location. With lasers it's easy to spread that damage across your entire mech. If you are getting cored out by laser vom without losing the majority of your torso/arm armour first you need to improve your damage spread skills.

Played some drops against [228] (best IS team in the game right now in my opinion) on Boreal last night (yes they dropped with 12 TDR-9S's) and their players were more than capable of hitting targets from beyond short range.

Thanks for your shout out! Now for this topic.

The ERPPC thud is an example if anything that builds and tactics must change to continue being effective in this game. Instead it seems every time a team that is effective with anything; people always seem to go with complaints, rather then reason.

We at the 228 always test and refine the weapons of war we are given. We are always changing and improving for that is how you continue to have victories. Going stale vice creative, leads to defeat.

Our pilots play with what they know and understand, rather then what seems to be teams making copies. The first thing we told those Merc units we trained is to never build the flavour of the Meta. You make your own Meta, and build to what you use. If you find its not effective then practice and train to what you want.

Where is the challenge of easy, no skill, and simplified tactics?

[Artifact]

Cathy, on 22 December 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Its so great to have clans QQing over Is mechs

So, basically, you're uninterested in balance, you just want the clans to suck so that you can beat them. Got it.

Edited by Artifact, 22 December 2014 - 09:38 AM.

[Brizna]

So that's what happened the other day versus the clans in Polar Vault when suddenly a big pack of timberwolves and stormcrows gushed out of the gate and decimated us as we attempted to regroup, clans weren't being bold and attacking they were fleeing from the thunderbolt who didn't pay attention to regroup and entered alone through the other gate.

@Deadfire: I also had the pleasure of being decimated by the 228th. Great Job. Still remains the only time I've seen an attack win by killing the defenders, we were PUGs true but still the odds don't favour the attackers to do so.

Edited by Brizna, 22 December 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[Akula]

Deadfire, on 22 December 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

Thanks for your shout out!

More than welcome!

Ghost Badger, on 22 December 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Yeah, you CAN aim ERPPC just fine, but aim those 3ERPPC Thuds at 12 guys all vomiting ERLL at you concurrently. Torso twist all you want, enjoy losing an arm/torso just to get a 30 pt. alpha onto the generator, lol.

Now hang on. I can spin this in the opposite direction just as easily. Yes you can poke out of cover and vomit 2 cERLL and 4 cERML from a T-wolf. But do that when 12 guys are all spitting 30 pin point alphas at you. You can't twist as you need to keep your lasers on target for 1.5 seconds, while the ERPPC Thud twists away and spreads your laser damage over his entire torso the moment he's fired his alpha. Enjoy getting cored out just to spread 50 damage over 3 or 4 sections of a heavy mech.

You see it. It's pretty easy to spin an over the top story showing how desperately bad things are. I'm not interested in dramatics myself, I'm just stating that currently the IS have a pretty large pin point damage advantage over the clans.

[kesmai]

was any one whining when i used my thuds half a year ago?
most of the guys i play with sold their phoenix ones and the free one.
i got laughed at.
i kept playing thuds.

now i laugh at you.

Edited by kesmai, 22 December 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[Kirkland Langue]

Kruiser, on 22 December 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

And at any range a PPC always does it's damage to one location.

This is flatly not true. Grab your TDR-9S, go run into a training map, and test on dummies that are standing still - you will often hit multiple locations with a single volley. I was doing this just yesterday.

[Brody319]

Kirkland Langue, on 22 December 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

[/size]

This is flatly not true. Grab your TDR-9S, go run into a training map, and test on dummies that are standing still - you will often hit multiple locations with a single volley. I was doing this just yesterday.

PPCs and ERPPCs have splash damage. They deal most of their damage up front, but some of it spreads to other parts.

[kesmai]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

PPCs and ERPPCs have splash damage. They deal most of their damage up front, but some of it spreads to other parts.

only the clan erppc has splash damage.

[Kirkland Langue]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

PPCs and ERPPCs have splash damage. They deal most of their damage up front, but some of it spreads to other parts.

I thought that might be the case as well - but supposedly it is only the CLAN version that has splash damage.

[Deadfire]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

PPCs and ERPPCs have splash damage. They deal most of their damage up front, but some of it spreads to other parts.

False IS PPCs do not do splash damage. 10 damage vs Clan ERPPC which is 10 and 2.5 splash on 2 components

[Brody319]

Kirkland Langue, on 22 December 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

I thought that might be the case as well - but supposedly it is only the CLAN version that has splash damage.

my mistake. no, PPCs do full damage. Clans PPCs deal a little bit of splash damage, but have more damage to compensate.
PPCs 10 damage
C-PPCs 15 damage but 2.5 is splashed.

It might just be a hit reg issue.

[Artifact]

I'd love to see the freakout if PGI simply let clan players modify Omnimechs at the level of customization allowed for IS chassis. No need for quirks changes, just allow omnimechs to retain their actual supposed advantages.

3 dual GR/ECM Hellbringers in my drop deck? Yes, please. All of a sudden the IS whining over clan ERLLs would end. Immediately.

Edited by Artifact, 22 December 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[Deadfire]

Brody319, on 22 December 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

my mistake. no, PPCs do full damage. Clans PPCs deal a little bit of splash damage, but have more damage to compensate.
PPCs 10 damage
C-PPCs 15 damage but 2.5 is splashed.

It might just be a hit reg issue.

Heh, least someone noticed it in this thread. When you hit certain places (most times its the joints) the damage will either do full to one, half to 2, or not at all. This has been around since the HSR fix.

[Alistair Winter]

Demuder, on 22 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Btw, I think one King Crab or one Stalker alone could smoke all your 4 mechs if played on the same skill level and one after the other - in a CW setting with set objectives ofc.

It's a good thing no one else is at my skill level

I mean, yeah, this is nothing new. CW isn't different from public matches in this regard. If you want to beat the best players in the game, piloting the best mechs, you need to be in the best mechs too. But CW doesn't work with Elo. You're not just playing the best people. You're mostly playing mediocre players. And I'll beat mediocre players in my sub-Tier 1 mechs any day of the week.

My Inner Sphere mechs are Ravens, Awesomes and Catapults. Are they good enough against the top teams in their meta builds? Nope, of course not. But they're fine against 98% of the player population. I don't have to play the Tier 1 mechs to compete with the average MWO players.

[kesmai]

Artifact, on 22 December 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

I'd love to see the freakout if PGI simply let clan players modify Omnimechs at the level of customization allowed for IS chassis. No need for quirks changes, just allow omnimechs to retain their actual supposed advantages.

3 dual GR/ECM Hellbringers in my drop deck? Yes, please. All of a sudden the IS whining over clan ERLLs would end. Immediately.

Good
let´s shrink it down.
one chassis
no weight classes

hello balance

[AlmightyAeng]

Demuder, on 22 December 2014 - 09:21 AM, said:

Maybe the TBR is the best heavy around, granted. Guess what, it's not that much greater than a TDR or an Orion (my personal favorite)

Statement like this make me wonder if we're playing the same game. Orions are terrible.

Kruiser, on 22 December 2014 - 10:16 AM, said:

Now hang on. I can spin this in the opposite direction just as easily. Yes you can poke out of cover and vomit 2 cERLL and 4 cERML from a T-wolf. But do that when 12 guys are all spitting 30 pin point alphas at you. You can't twist as you need to keep your lasers on target for 1.5 seconds, while the ERPPC Thud twists away and spreads your laser damage over his entire torso the moment he's fired his alpha. Enjoy getting cored out just to spread 50 damage over 3 or 4 sections of a heavy mech.

You see it. It's pretty easy to spin an over the top story showing how desperately bad things are. I'm not interested in dramatics myself, I'm just stating that currently the IS have a pretty large pin point damage advantage over the clans.

Congratulations. Now you understand why I'm complaining about the map design itself, not the tech of EITHER side. Lol.

Defenders on either side stacking long range weapons on an icy cold map that favors standing in ONE spot and covering both gates are gonna win.

My only comment on ERPPC's versus hitscan was to those individuals crying that they're OP. They're really NOT, one for one, at the range map encourages.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 22 December 2014 - 10:50 AM.