98 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

Vassago Rain, on 03 January 2015 - 06:14 AM, said:

Let's be really serious for real here.

It's a java map.
You have to open gates so you can rush OGs.
It takes place on MOBA stages that aren't very good.
MWO is in its 3rd year of life. It's only proper to expect more.
CW was the game's hype feature.
Clans are uber OP, and make life very unfun for IS players.
Unless you can play very close to ceasefire, your contributions don't really matter much.
The pay/XP is far lower than it should be.
MWO's balance/flavor of the month is fully exposed in CW.
It's supposedly a social warfare kind of thing, yet the game only has the barest, most primitive social functions. I used to play text-based browser games with better social features than this.

I know for a fact I didn't wait years for this, and as a result, I don't play CW. Maybe they'll fix it, maybe they won't.

It's got nothing to do with 12 manz on voice chat. Nothing. Zero.

I agree with over half.

Clans OP? Go look in thier forums about IS lights and Thunderbolts. Second coming of mecha-Jesus over there.

3rd year expect more: in short yes but they had some drama with IGP so they get some slack. they have been better since.

Pay/xp. Pay may be thin, Xp is debatable. This is coming from an old PSO player who would have to spend WEEKS doing the same damn 3 quests to grind a character from 180 to lvl 200. Weapon farming took WAY longer. XP in MWO seems decent to me.

Social tools are lacking in MWO: VOIP

But 'nothing to do with 12mans on VOIP'?? Thats the whole premise of CW.
Doesnt take a Rhodes Scholarship mathematician to see how 12 coordinated players on viop have leverage over 12.randoms.

[Zibmo]

Mystere, on 03 January 2015 - 07:30 PM, said:

But does something being the "best of the best" mean it is "OP"?

The problem with arguments like this is that people often confuse "better" with "OP". Practically no one is giving solid definitions of both "better" and "OP" (and distinguishing between the two), much less solid quantitative "proof". But that is what it would take to settle whether or not something is indeed OP. And so these arguments go around in circles ad infinitum.

How about "ton for ton there is no IS mech that has the capabilities in general that clan mechs do with the exception of lights - which are largely misplayed by clanners." To clarify, I do quite well in Clan lights. You just don't play them like Firestarters.

OP is pretty easy to determine, really. How about "much, much better than anything else in its class?" Or, "Equivalent power and utility as a mech 10-25 tons heavier?"

I know you will quibble with the tonnage. My TBR is easily as good as my Stalker. And my TDRs, as much as I love them, don't really compare to a Stormcrow.

[Vxheous]

Caustic Canid, on 03 January 2015 - 06:51 PM, said:

Fair enough. Do people have to join (SWOL) to play, or are they open to outsiders dropping in?

We have outsiders drop in for pub games because it is just a public group, but CW has to have members from the same unit to form a group to queue up. I will send you an invite to our unit and you can accept if you would like, as I said, we are very casual, there is no set times to scrim or any such things. There are no requirements for membership.

Edited by Vxheous, 03 January 2015 - 07:47 PM.

[Mystere]

Zibmo, on 03 January 2015 - 07:43 PM, said:

How about "ton for ton there is no IS mech that has the capabilities in general that clan mechs do with the exception of lights - which are largely misplayed by clanners." To clarify, I do quite well in Clan lights. You just don't play them like Firestarters.

OP is pretty easy to determine, really. How about "much, much better than anything else in its class?" Or, "Equivalent power and utility as a mech 10-25 tons heavier?"

I know you will quibble with the tonnage. My TBR is easily as good as my Stalker. And my TDRs, as much as I love them, don't really compare to a Stormcrow.

Please don't be offended, but your post is exactly what I meant. No one gives actual performance numbers, no end-to-end analyses under specific and controllable conditions. And that's just to name a few.

Edited by Mystere, 03 January 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[Dirty Starfish]

Pgi is the only one with the data to properly "test opness" as they are the only ones with data actually gathered from real gameplay. It comes down to them to determine whether a mech is op or not. It comes to us to raise enough hell for them to bother checking.

Without any data, I'd measure opness by counting the number of posts in here bitching about the topic.

[Mystere]

Serial Peacemaker, on 03 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

Without any data, I'd measure opness by counting the number of posts in here bitching about the topic.

In that case, teamwork is absolutely OP and definitely needs to be nerfed.

[Dirty Starfish]

Mystere, on 03 January 2015 - 08:19 PM, said:

In that case, teamwork is absolutely OP and definitely needs to be nerfed.

To be fair, teamwork does provide players with a serious advantage.

[Vassago Rain]

KhanJames, on 03 January 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

4 Clan mechs that are competitive is hardly clans=op.

Dire and Timber might be considered for "best" but when quirk based loadouts are taken into account they really aren't the best.

Stormcrow and hellbringer are both competitive in there classes but not the best by a long shot. like the warhawk (an Assault sniper) they are far more "niche" mechs than the OP "best in weight class".

the rest of them are mediocre at best. So I admit I prefer Clan mechs because overall my play style is ranger/sniper based but I would say there no more OP than a number of the mechs the IS has (with quirk loadouts). (yes arbitrary thunderbolt ppc complaint goes here)

Also getting way off topic.

This is kinda like saying 40k third edition eldar are balanced, because out of 27 units, only 4 are good. It just so happens that those 4 are THE BEST UNITS IN THE GAME, and nothing's stopping you from running entire armies composed of only those 4 units.

Get over yourselves, please.

[InspectorG]

Serial Peacemaker, on 03 January 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

Without any data, I'd measure opness by counting the number of posts in here bitching about the topic.

KLAAATU VERATA NIKT...TOE...TIE...(definetly an 'N' word)

Necro - Engage!

I think that honor still goes to LRMs.

I have awakened a great Beast, RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hillslam]

Here's a tip I learned as an adult:

If someone doesn't like something, you're never going to "argue" them into liking it.

Corollary: Starting from a position of "they must be stupid" knocks you back 10 steps before you've even begun.

[Lily from animove]

Good question

and unless we get cross faction groups we can setup (but this is said to come) CW will be about units only and not the community.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 January 2015 - 06:39 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Augustus Martelus II, on 03 January 2015 - 05:34 PM, said:

I would like when ejecting...i could run on the field in my armored suit....and go grab my next mech. If i get kill its a kill but if my mech get kill...the enemy have a kill and i have an ''destroy but not kill''

...and then there's this whole "cooling vest and a thong" that you're actually wearing, not some form of armored suit. Other than that it's a great idea.

[Kirkland Langue]

On the issue of clans being OP. For the purpose of this thread, the truth is that they are OP.

Clan Mechs have very little variance between them, when compared to IS mechs. If you take a random 12 Clan mechs - you'll have a bunch with roughly the same Range and speed. If you take a random 12 IS mechs - you'll have 12 very different mechs with regards to range or speed.

For this reason, PUG Clan teams should basically always win vs IS PUG teams. It's much easier to coordinate when everyone on your team has similar speeds and similar ranges - you don't have to worry about putting people in the best spots for their mechs. IS teams require far more coordination.


Are there IS mechs that are, individually, as strong as individual Clan Mechs? Yes.
A coordinated IS team can certainly do well against coordinated Clan teams.

But if the problem is that there aren't enough PUG players - then how well coordinated teams do doesn't matter all that much.

[C E Dwyer]

As a solo drop IS player,owning clan mechs,listening to all the total rubbish spouted, from IS players about clans being OP, Clan people whining about certain IS builds being OP.

None of this whiny crap is the reason I stopped playing CW.

I stopped playing because of two reasons, the first being that its dull and endless amounts of the same in which even a machine operater in a canning factory would find boring.

The second is because as a european player and if I could put up with hours and hours of the same I cannot in any way make any effect on the result of my fighting because of the bloody stupid way PGI, designed the planet flip.

This is so basic as to be a planning joke, they have a world wide sever and then make it pointless for anyone not living on the american continent to have an effect unless they play at 4am in the morning..

This is why its dieing, because of the usual sub standard game play PGI develope

[Lily from animove]

Willard Phule, on 04 January 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

...and then there's this whole "cooling vest and a thong" that you're actually wearing, not some form of armored suit. Other than that it's a great idea.

and only if you are clanner

[Davers]

Zensei, on 03 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

I really expected more for CW, it was blown up to be so much more, has anyone noticed that CW is really just respawn with different maps.

Did you really expect a completely rewritten, brand new, entire game for CW? I am sure that there were people who thought that way in Beta, but this game launched over a year ago.

[oldradagast]

DarkMetalBlade, on 03 January 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Earlier, I've read someone's predictions that no-one but the big units that field those 12-man-on-comms groups will be present in CW, & soon, they are going to QQ about having nobody to play CW with.

Now with the Stocking Stuffer event all over, the PUGs are going back to the solo queue & leaving CW behind. I'm starting to feel that this prediction is all too true unless something is done to make them want to stay, because right now, there's no reason for them to stay. & truthfully, those 12-man groups on voice comms are hastening their decision to stay away from CW.

With that, when will those big units start complaining that they've got nobody to play CW with?

There is zero reason to play CW unless you're part of a huge unit right now.

The game play is shallow and repetitive.

Anyone outside of peak time zones has zero impact on the game thanks to when planets flip and how.

The map design is appalling and makes Alpine Peaks and Terra Therma look like masterful creations.

There is no real role warfare: no need for high-speed scouting, etc.

Defenders have a huge advantage AND actually get to shoot mechs vs. being targets herded through kill-zones to shoot NPC's... which, by the way, give ZERO rewards for damage dealt to them.

Many games are decided when the teams are picked. Nothing like a 12-man vs. PUG's to make that half-hour investment of time feel like a total waste... and that doesn't count the time wasted looking for a match.

Very few mechs are remotely competitive in CW.

Bugs, bugs, bugs... which can be fixed (eventually), but none of which will solve the above issues.

Edited by oldradagast, 04 January 2015 - 03:36 PM.

[Mystere]

oldradagast, on 04 January 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

The map design is appalling and makes Alpine Peaks and Terra Therma look like masterful creations.

Why? Because the maps are advantageous to the defenders? What army do you know of that would intentionally do the opposite?

I think this needs to be repeated over and over again:

Mystere, on 24 December 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I have said it before and I will say it again ...

The solution is to add more game modes and maps to community warfare, not **** up the two maps we already have. Those two can remain as is.

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 04 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

Why? Because the maps are advantageous to the defenders? What army do you know of that would intentionally do the opposite?

I think this needs to be repeated over and over again:

Missing my point: no sane army in their right minds would attack so heavily defended positions with an equal number of attackers as defenders.

One can say that the maps are "well designed for the defender," which is true... except the maps - and game modes - are supposed to be designed to be FUN for everyone. Right now, the attackers are basically red-shirts - canon-fodder - marching to their doom in obvious kill zones. I'm honestly shocked the attackers ever win, but then again... horrible match-making no doubt pairs 12-man attackers against PUG defenders, so I guess there's always that hope.

As for the rest, I agree that the game badly needs more game modes and maps. I just don't consider the current laughable selection for CW to be either fun to play or inspiring for the future. PGI can do better- every other map and game mode created thus far is superior, IMHO.

Edited by oldradagast, 04 January 2015 - 04:34 PM.

[LtColClaymore]

all great CW if i ever get a change to play a game from it

17th attempts. all pilot receiving orders
stay like that for a hour! and then i got 4 players? then got 6? then loaded.
Then noting then.3.6.3./5/3/2/5

ZERO matches result me leaving pissed off
what am i supposed to to to get some action in here?