233 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Blueduck, on 06 January 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

"The Firestarter isn't the broken one. The Spider is. Firestarters are the fragile ones but pack more firepower. They are not significantly better than the Mist Lynx for hitboxes. "

The spider has super broken hitboxes, the firestarters are sort of broken. The firestarter can also exploit the JJ exploit along with the fact it is much much faster than the Mist Lynx.

"This isn't me armchair theorizing - this is what we do to deal with that, because we've been fighting it every single match for a month."

The light rushes have been a bane since day 1. And I have no problem saying the super storm crow rush is just as broken and dumb. Regardless, you have not been fighting the PPC spam since day 1. This was recently exploited by 228 and it appeared in mass over this weekend along with all the mercs jumping ship. I had never seen it despite almost exclusively fighting IS for 3 weeks.

"You've got 2 solid waves, 1 mediocre wave and 1 weak wave. "

You can have 3 thunderbolts and a very strong medium or 2 thunderbolts an awesome and a firestarter. There is no weakness in that.

I will not argue with you that the Thunderbolt cannot be beaten; however, on the snow map he is heavily heavily favored to the point of stupidity. He can always just back up a bit and wait for them to crest.

No, 228 was doing that pretty much day 1 when they were fighting for Kurita and we were Davion.

The problem with the 3xTDR build is that you don't have any other options. You're pure one trick and if you get surprised you've got no fallback. Most want a brawler in there (wubberbolt) and a light, you need 1 light. Preferably with ECM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

No, 228 was doing that pretty much day 1 when they were fighting for Kurita and we were Davion.

The problem with the 3xTDR build is that you don't have any other options. You're pure one trick and if you get surprised you've got no fallback. Most want a brawler in there (wubberbolt) and a light, you need 1 light. Preferably with ECM.

For some reason it must not have made its way to clan space until recently then. I will also agree that it is not completely the mech. PPC spam has always been bogus but the wide open maps of CW are just painful to fight ppcs against.

The other issue is that clans don't have ultra fast lights like the IS. A firestarter will rip up a pppc Thunderbolt; we have nothing that can close like that on the larger maps.

Again though, I'm not blind to the fact the clans have their own garbage builds and mechs in CW. The stormcrow is on the same level of OP as the thunderbolt in my opinion due to his tonnage.

TX for the discussion.

[Karpundir]

Klappspaten, on 06 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

I can´t believe that. The first two weeks of CW you clan guys tore us apart.

It was even longer.. it was THREE weeks! The 3rd week being the worst.

[MischiefSC]

Blueduck, on 06 January 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

For some reason it must not have made its way to clan space until recently then. I will also agree that it is not completely the mech. PPC spam has always been bogus but the wide open maps of CW are just painful to fight ppcs against.

The other issue is that clans don't have ultra fast lights like the IS. A firestarter will rip up a pppc Thunderbolt; we have nothing that can close like that on the larger maps.

Again though, I'm not blind to the fact the clans have their own garbage builds and mechs in CW. The stormcrow is on the same level of OP as the thunderbolt in my opinion due to his tonnage.

TX for the discussion.

No worries. The problem that the 9S creates for the Clanners is, quite simply, it beats Clan mechs at the field they generally do best - the long rage poke game. Especially against pugs it's a solid tactic for Clanners to employ and attrition them out. A wall of 9S shuts that down completely.

In IS vs IS you need to expect to lose all 3 ogens to wave 1, almost every match. No matter what defense you use. If you're not 228 focusing legs off lights as they jump the gates you're going to get rolled by it. If you're attacking Boreal you need a tactic or approach to deal with opening the gates on Boreal without everyone being cored by the time the gates are down. Then you need an approach of getting in and to the objectives. You pretty much can't defend Sulfur against a competent setup and the defender on Boreal has a big advantage.

The 9S though isn't the most broken meta. Light zergs are. If we were ******** we'd run a 48 light mech dropdeck, 36 of them being ECM at staggered distances to bugger your BAP. We don't do that though (save for a couple units) because it's so damn feeble.

[W A R L O R D]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2015 - 07:25 PM, said:

Remove the 9S tomorrow and the planets lost won't change.

Uhhhh.......I don't know about that.......

[VXJaeger]

I'm so annoyed 'bout clanners whining that they can't get through gates because of snipers shooting living hell out of them, that here's a tip how to do it.
Put 3-4 of fully moduled these into first drop who'll jump over the choosed gate, and on their way explode the generator. This way you won't need to spend time on those sniper targeted murder-ridges any moar than necessarity. Yes, those jumpers will die quickly, but bend over, think of team and take it like a man.

And 'bout ERPPC-9S "problem"...it doesn't exist. Its same "problem" than we have w/ Stormcrows nad same solution:
GET CLOSE and they will overheat & be easy pray.

Edited by VXJaeger, 06 January 2015 - 09:30 PM.

[MischiefSC]

VXJaeger, on 06 January 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

I'm so annoyed 'bout clanners whining that they can't get through gates because of snipers shooting living hell out of them, that here's a tip how to do it.
Put 3-4 of fully moduled these into first drop who'll jump over the choosed gate, and on their way explode the generator. This way you won't need to spend time on those sniper targeted murder-ridges any moar than necessarity. Yes, those jumpers will die quickly, but bend over, think of team and take it like a man.

And 'bout ERPPC-9S "problem"...it doesn't exist. Its same "problem" than we have w/ Stormcrows nad same solution:
GET CLOSE and they will overheat & be easy pray.

A line of gauss and CERLLs isn't a whole lot different. Take your lumps, drop the gate the best you can and get point blank.

[HBizzle]

W A R L O R D, on 06 January 2015 - 09:18 PM, said:

Uhhhh.......I don't know about that.......

Mischief is right. Teamwork is OP, not the 9S.

[Jman5]

I remember in the weeks preceding it was nothing but threads dunking on IS teams that they need to learn to play and adapt. They needed to change their tactics like their superior clan brethren supposedly had. We were told again and again It had nothing to do with the numbers and we just needed to organize better and get good.

Then, the moment the tables turn suddenly those points you were spouting are not actually the reason that factions lose. Now, everyone and their mom on clan side is coming down with a case of CW fatigue.

Here is the real reason. Losing over and over sucks. Losing planets when you're winning games sucks even more. It makes you feel like there is nothing you can do, so you ask yourself why you even bother. I think ultimately the only way we're going to get through this is if we can make individual wins more meaningful instead of just having it over-ridden by some pug team that comes along 15 minutes later and gets wiped.

[Keira RAVEN McKenna]

Actually it really is getting repetitive and boring. Huge XP and Cbill rewards but nothing new to spend it all on, 2 maps, 2 modes and a big wait for games still. I've gone back to public games for now too.

[VXJaeger]

MischiefSC, on 06 January 2015 - 09:41 PM, said:

A line of gauss and CERLLs isn't a whole lot different. Take your lumps, drop the gate the best you can and get point blank.

Yes. While fighting for Liao (still haven't been able to wash that stench of rice&curry off my skin) we ran into these 12 9S-teams when kicking Davions asses. They were a real problem...for one day Little planning and adapting, and we started walking over them like nothing has happend.
Yes, while getting onto their faces maybe 2-3 will die on the way. But once you get close, to rest of team that 9S-horde is just gum to chew/piece of cake/choose your own metaphora.

Edited by VXJaeger, 07 January 2015 - 12:05 AM.

[W A R L O R D]

HBizzle, on 06 January 2015 - 09:47 PM, said:

Mischief is right. Teamwork is OP, not the 9S.

It's only recently that the Tbolt has made its debut.....before everyone started using it, the IS'ers were getting Clan stomped in the most glorious fashion....

I agree that a twelve-man on TS has a better chance of winning, but you can't convice me that a Cataphract 4X is just as valuable on the field as the Tbolt is. If that were the case you wouldn't see as many Thunderbolts as you do. People bring them because it's a powerful mech (after quirks).....and why shouldn't they?? They want to win...and I would expect you or anyone else will bring the mechs you believe are going to help you win the match. I don't fault people for taking advantage of it...but to say that they will keep ALL the planets they've won even without the Tbolt...is somewhat delusional. LOL - ask them to not bring the thunderbolt anymore.....see what they say

Edited by W A R L O R D, 06 January 2015 - 10:35 PM.

[Mr Beefy]

Blueduck, on 06 January 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

"A very strong medium? You mean like in my drop deck..... I have 2 Thunderbolts, one with 7 med pulse lasers and one with 2 ERPPC's and three medium lasers, A firebrand jager i just got, and a Blackjack X-1 ....hmmmm

Doesn't seem like that strong of a medium to me. And if the Thunderbolts are just so freaking OP why am I not running another in my drop ship? If Erppc's are so great with the quirk...why am I not running 3 of them in my Thunderbolt, and all three that have the quirks?"


So you get to have 2 ppc thunderbolts and a pulse laser thunderbolt; pretty strong eh? Or you have the 2 thunderbolt, awesome, and small pulse laser firestarter, again, really strong hung?

I'm not biased though in that I think the 3 stormcrow, 1 Timberwolf dropdeck is just as dumb.

And this isn't about "your" drop deck, but a coordinated team that takes out 3 thunderbolts or 2 and an awesome.

I have several choices, but on my IS account right now I am only running two Thunderbolts because I am trying to finish mastering them and will end up selling one of them and keeping two as long as they don't get nerfed into the ground. Point is that its not what I normally run in my drop deck. Normally my deck varies, from 1 Victor, Jager S, Cent A, and the BJ-X1 with 8 small pulse lasers. or I can run 2 Tbolts, Jager FB, and BJ-X1. I have the two firestarters, the A and the ember, they are benched right now. I also have the Locust PB, and the 3E, but at this point with the very limited maps and modes we have in CW, not really sure about a set drop deck.(zerg rushing with lights really isn't my thing either)

I am running 2 Tbolts right now, Both have 2 ERppc's and med lasers. I am really not a ppc kinda player, they are ok I guess, but normally I don't run builds with them. One reason I did is to counter the Range advantage the Clans have always enjoyed. In CW, keeping targets at range can be a very important tactic at times and other times its not. This is the point, players have to find ways to counter any given mech, weapons, or you can just complain about them until PGI nerfs them into the ground. I tend to stick with short to mid range brawlers, SRM builds, small pulse lasers/med pulse lasers builds.

I have seen unskilled players that can't hit anything with PPC's, and then I have seen skilled pilots that can. Some of you act like just because of the quirks on the Tbolt its OP or the quirks are to much. Even with only 2 erPPC's and three med lasers one has to watch heat or the mech will shut down. Nerfing the clans or the IS into the ground is not the answer to fix things guys. Does it suck to get pounded on by a team that brings 3 Tbolts each.....sure I bet it does. However, if try hards are willing to bring them, chances are even if the quirks get taken down a notch or just nerfed into the ground, they will find a replacement that will wind up with the same end result, your dead and they win.

I just tried to play CW tonight, and I dropped with some fellow Smoke Jags, and it seemed as if the goal was to hit planets that had no defenders to get the easy win. Well this really isn't my style either, and I find it to kinda suck for several reasons. It seems there will always be players in this game that try to find ways to get a edge over others or exploit the game. Best thing I have found to do is adapt, try new tactics, and if you can, kill them fast. Same thing happened with the Timbers... seemed everyone started to focus on mechs that are deemed as OP. Players really should not be starting threads on how OP something is, or begging for nerfs. They should be talking it over with their teammates and finding weakness in their opponents choice of mechs, or weapons they bring, no matter how good they seem to be. There are always weakness's in every mech, I don't care what they are.

[Mr Beefy]

W A R L O R D, on 06 January 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

It's only recently that the Tbolt has made its debut.....before everyone started using it, the IS'ers were getting Clan stomped in the most glorious fashion....

I agree that a twelve-man on TS has a better chance of winning, but you can't convice me that a Cataphract 4X is just as valuable on the field as the Tbolt is. If that were the case you wouldn't see as many Thunderbolts as you do. People bring them because they're OP.....and why shouldn't they?? They want to win...and I would expect you or anyone else will bring the mechs you believe are going to help you win the match. I don't fault people for taking advantage of it...but to say that they will keep ALL the planets they've won even without the Tbolt...is somewhat delusional. LOL - ask them to not bring the thunderbolt anymore.....see what they say

That would be like IS players asking clan players not to bring the Timber wolf. What would you say?

[W A R L O R D]

Mr Beefy, on 06 January 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

That would be like IS players asking clan players not to bring the Timber wolf. What would you say?

That's my point Mr. Beefy...I would say no, because I want to win the match. That's why they bring the Thunderbolt, because they want to win the match. But it's ridiculous to say that no planets will be lost even if the Thunderbolt gets nerfed to oblivion...INner Sphere is winning now because most of their drop decks include a very specific mech AND on top of that you have some excellent players piloting them. How well will IS do when the merc units like QQ, etc... leave the faction and PGI turns the Tbolt into a smoldering pile of worthlessness? Only time will tell.

Edited by W A R L O R D, 06 January 2015 - 10:52 PM.

[Dagorlad13]

W A R L O R D, on 06 January 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

That's my point Mr. Beefy...I would say no, because I want to win the match. That's why they bring the Thunderbolt, because they want to win the match. But it's ridiculous to say that no planets will be lost even if the Thunderbolt gets nerfed to oblivion...INner Sphere is winning now because most of their drop decks include a very specific mech AND on top of that you have some excellent players piloting them. How well will IS do when the merc units like QQ, etc... leave the faction and PGI turns the Tbolt into a smoldering pile of worthlessness? Only time will tell.

It is obvious that if there is an OP mech, then people will want to take it, but that does not make the mech OP. The Timberwolf is not as OP as people make it out to be.

[Nightshade24]

Blueduck, on 06 January 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

"A very strong medium? You mean like in my drop deck..... I have 2 Thunderbolts, one with 7 med pulse lasers and one with 2 ERPPC's and three medium lasers, A firebrand jager i just got, and a Blackjack X-1 ....hmmmm

Doesn't seem like that strong of a medium to me. And if the Thunderbolts are just so freaking OP why am I not running another in my drop ship? If Erppc's are so great with the quirk...why am I not running 3 of them in my Thunderbolt, and all three that have the quirks?"


So you get to have 2 ppc thunderbolts and a pulse laser thunderbolt; pretty strong eh? Or you have the 2 thunderbolt, awesome, and small pulse laser firestarter, again, really strong hung?

I'm not biased though in that I think the 3 stormcrow, 1 Timberwolf dropdeck is just as dumb.

And this isn't about "your" drop deck, but a coordinated team that takes out 3 thunderbolts or 2 and an awesome.

yes. but can you explain why the thunderbolt of all mechs has the best quirks for the er ppcs'?

[Nightshade24]

VXJaeger, on 06 January 2015 - 09:27 PM, said:

I'm so annoyed 'bout clanners whining that they can't get through gates because of snipers shooting living hell out of them, that here's a tip how to do it.
Put 3-4 of fully moduled these into first drop who'll jump over the choosed gate, and on their way explode the generator. This way you won't need to spend time on those sniper targeted murder-ridges any moar than necessarity. Yes, those jumpers will die quickly, but bend over, think of team and take it like a man.

And 'bout ERPPC-9S "problem"...it doesn't exist. Its same "problem" than we have w/ Stormcrows nad same solution:
GET CLOSE and they will overheat & be easy pray.

give it a week.

Right now: Clans complaining they can't open the gates, IS keep snipping them to pieces.
Later on: Clans complaining noobs try to open the gates. They want it closed so the deffenders cant zerg rush them.
Further on: Clans complaining thunderbolts are jumping over the wall and zerg rushing the clans.

[Abivard]

You clannners stop taking stormcrows and we will not take thunderbolts anymore.

I am amazed at how many Clan players rolled belly up and quit when they met an equal fight for their first time.

[VXJaeger]

Nightshade24, on 07 January 2015 - 12:09 AM, said:

give it a week.

Right now: Clans complaining they can't open the gates, IS keep snipping them to pieces.
Later on: Clans complaining noobs try to open the gates. They want it closed so the deffenders cant zerg rush them.
Further on: Clans complaining thunderbolts are jumping over the wall and zerg rushing the clans.

Well, scene evaluates every day. Thing that works today will not work tomorrow, and you need to re-evaluate
Most terrible thing is if **** gets static YO!