465 replies to this topic

[Nutlink]

InspectorG, on 18 January 2015 - 08:28 PM, said:

MWO favors boating. 2-3 big dakka(i would include ppc/erppc in this). 1238734837LRMs. 5+ lazors.
Anything with less...doesnt get used. Unless you are me in my Cicada C...

That's been a problem with every MW title. MW2 had medium pulse laser boats, MW3 had small laser boats, MW4 had ERLL boats (and BK and Mercs had ERPPC/Gauss boats). Hell, in MechCommander 1 you had Loki flamer boats. Even on TT you have customization issues (12-14MG on a Stone Rhino was insane). I know I'm in a huge minority here on this, but I wish they would have gone the MPBT3025/MWLL route and skipped customization altogether. Stick with variants, with all their ups and downs, and create perks based on that instead of the hot mess we have right now. Omnimechs would be given an advantage by letting players select one of the variants 60 seconds before the drop while standard battlemechs would be stuck with the variant they have, that sort of stuff. Instead we end up with a boating meta.

[Nick86]

Jimmy Page, on 18 January 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

When 90% of the lights are Firestarters, it should tell you something. They have the speed of a light with jumpjets and the firepower of mediums. They also have borked hit boxes the way the Spider used to. I'm sure the Firestarter pilots will say "stop whining, we have skill". I say pilot something else and see how well you do. Everyone knows your precious light is broken. PGI, fix please. The sooner the better.

I guess you haven't looked at what the Locust can do in the right hands.. A guy called YokiLin made a post on it a month or so ago... I would find that and take a look before you start getting all nerfy, before you make yourself look... well... that's subjective.

x

Edited by Nick86, 18 January 2015 - 11:21 PM.

[Krivvan]

Kaphiri, on 18 January 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

To me that says that the Firestarter is a good model of what a light should be, and that others should be brought up to its level.

[Krivvan]

Team Chevy86, on 18 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

The Ember and H variants can't even compete now.

The H is still the best Firestarter, tied with the A and potentially the S...

The H shines for its range in comp games and games where you can't yolo in an A at any moment.

[Jman5]

I'm sorry, but have you all looked at the light queue lately?



Most of my matches have only one or two lights per team. There is no firestarter scourge sweeping the game. And even if they were, Firestarters have laughably short range with those pulse lasers. Even with the quirk and a level 5 range mod, you have less than 140 meters for optimal damage. If I was piloting a mech that was utterly impotent beyond 270 meters, I would think it deserves to be a little OP at close quarters. Otherwise, why bring a short range mech at all if longer range builds were just as competitive at any range?

Now I think a firestarter 9A is a great mech and quite dangerous at close quarters. I've fought them a lot in bigger mechs and have had good players turn me on my head. However, their role is limited and requires them to essentially dive-bomb the enemy team in moments of confusion. For every one firestarter I see pull this off, I see two or three get utterly obliterated in seconds.

You know there was a time when I had this idea of creating the ultimate light hunter with a Kintaro. I stacked him up with streaks and made it my mission to bully lights every game. However eventually I realized how pointless the whole thing was. Outside Conquest, most light pilots die without contributing much to their team. They get wrecked by a couple of big alphas and they're out of commission. Using my mech just to fight those handful of good light pilots was a waste. Streakboats can easily hardcounter firestarters 9As. The fact that so few people bother should tell you how little threat most lights are in this game.

Edited by Jman5, 18 January 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Nick86]

Sarlic, on 18 January 2015 - 05:25 AM, said:

It's not the sale.

I was waiting for this. There is always someone who just like to say 'Learn to play' or whatever excuse to justify all the same effective builds so far. That's no argument.

You didnt explain yourself either, so i take this comment as a bait comment.

http://mwomercs.com/...-completely-op/
http://mwomercs.com/...p/page__st__160
http://mwomercs.com/...he-firestarter/
http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__120

I have nothing against lights, only when i see the same effective (quirkened) build over and over again then i go head scratching. "Why are other builds obsoleted?" You would mostly like to see more Oxides, Embers or even Jenner variatieon. The FS and the Ember did lose their arms fairly quick pre-patch.

Just like the spiders who had a decent lag-shield prior the fix.
Fortunatly we are seeing more and more decent quirks. For example seeing more Oxides lately.

Hoping to see more lights fairly soon. Or a better decent quirk scheme.

So you've quoted a few other fools, okay....

The alternatives in the light category for IS have either less viable hitboxes or hardpoints. FS9 is better than other clan lights. It is the best light in the game in my opinion, thought the Raven 3L used as a strike mech, the Huginn and Locust are pretty damn close. I use them interchangeably. I've been killed by FS9s many times... because I screwed up, or the team screwed up.

Posting 'evidence' from other idiots doesn't support an argument, especially when one of them openly accuses his killers of being second rate.. Hmm... Lol..

[Aethon]

The biggest problem with the Firestarter, IMHO, would be its hitboxes. I say, fix the disappearing damage they soak up, THEN take a fresh look at them before doing anything else.

[Krivvan]

Lily from animove, on 18 January 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

you have not seen hitreg in vacations, haven't you? it hardly matters where you shoot only a fraction does actually register and even on shut down or standing FS's I unlaoded fully vollyes of lasers and it had nearly no effect.

I can consistently do full damage to another Light's legs. Hitreg borks out once in a while, but it's hardly often and you do damage consistent enough. I'd post examples but I may as well just post half of my stream recordings.

Sometimes when I see people complain about light hitreg being especially worse than other mechs, I see them entirely missing whereas they seem convinced that they hit.

Hitting the Firestarter is no worse than hitting any other Lights. The different is that the Firestarter has very good components to block with, so it's very easy to spread damage and purposefully block shots in a Firestarter compared to a Jenner.

Most Firestarters are constantly twisting and spreading damage even if it doesn't look like they are from your point of view.

Edited by Krivvan, 18 January 2015 - 11:43 PM.

[Krivvan]

sneeking, on 18 January 2015 - 08:32 PM, said:

Fire starters ? They seem to run away looking for easier pickings when the meet my srm huginn or oxide.

Cant think why lol

Because Light on Light fights aren't things that good Light pilots look for. This is because unless one party is far more damaged than the other, it usually results in both sides taking significant damage and not doing as much damage as they could be doing against larger mechs.

It means it's a fair fight, but the last thing you want as a Light mech is a fair fight.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

I had a guy comment yesterday in solo queue, "you know... my Firestarter doesn't feel as invincible as everyone elses" after I ripped his leg off with 2 LPLs and 5 MLs while he was in the air.

I see good shots kill them all the time with no trouble. I kill a fair share of them with little to no trouble. It usually involves blowing a leg off.

[Nutlink]

Jman5, on 18 January 2015 - 11:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry, but have you all looked at the light queue lately?

Considering every match turns into a slugfest there are next to zero incentives to even bring a light mech (except in CW, where things are weight restricted obviously). Why bring something I'll do 200-300 damage with on average when I could bring something that gets 300+ on average with more kills? The rewards for using lighter mechs just isn't there.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Team Chevy86, on 18 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:

You're totally missing the point.
Pre-quirk, you would have NEVER dreamed about putting 8spl on a firestarter. It was all about mediums and mg's. And that was fine.
It's easy to balance something by making it overpowered. And that's exactly what they did to the A' and K's.
How do you justify an A or K variant getting unreal quirks, while the Ember, considered 'Teir 1' gets SFA? The Ember and H variants can't even compete now.
What's the point of making these once stagnant chassis so overwhelming that other chassis are completely ignored?
FYI, I mastered my firestarters shen the Ember was released. Of course, I don't own either the A or K. All 3 of my firestarters feel worthless now. I built them around my specific play style and it was fun. Not so much now.
For the most part the quirk pass faired extemely well. The thunderbolt and firestarters are the bad apples in my opinion.

It's not the quirks that made that build so powerful. It's the huge buff they gave to the SPL. Reduced heat from 2.4 to 2 and increased damage from 3.4 to 4. It would be a strong build even without any quirks.

[Jimmy Page]

The light queue is at 4-9% right now because of the tournament. Lights need better c-bill and XP rewards for doing their role and more people will play them. Making them as powerful as mediums is not the answer. I agree it is mostly a hitbox issue with the Firestarter and it needs looked at as soon as possible.

[Lily from animove]

Nutlink, on 18 January 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

That's been a problem with every MW title. MW2 had medium pulse laser boats, MW3 had small laser boats, MW4 had ERLL boats (and BK and Mercs had ERPPC/Gauss boats). Hell, in MechCommander 1 you had Loki flamer boats. Even on TT you have customization issues (12-14MG on a Stone Rhino was insane). I know I'm in a huge minority here on this, but I wish they would have gone the MPBT3025/MWLL route and skipped customization altogether. Stick with variants, with all their ups and downs, and create perks based on that instead of the hot mess we have right now. Omnimechs would be given an advantage by letting players select one of the variants 60 seconds before the drop while standard battlemechs would be stuck with the variant they have, that sort of stuff. Instead we end up with a boating meta.

without customisation I guess you would have lost a lot of players from the entire beginning. it was always part of MW to customise your mech.

[ShinVector]

Fix hit reg especially Lasers... Problem with lights solved.

[BattleBunny]

I just bought the things.

I dont usually pilot lights, nor am I particularly effective in them. Hence when I drop solo with them I get into a matches with somewhat low/average ELO players on both sides.

Playing with these things is a riot! They get behind mechs easily and do some nifty damage in quik bursts. good speed, JJ to move around, I love them

But I can confirm the hitreg on them is somewhat broken. I have headbutted alpha's that only seemed to half register. These things are too tanky this way and it is probably the reason I get away with a lot of bad moves.

I think this mech is exactly what a light mech should be. It should not be nerfed , but its hitreg should be fixed somewhat.

Edited by BattleBunny, 19 January 2015 - 01:54 AM.

[Nutlink]

Lily from animove, on 19 January 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

without customisation I guess you would have lost a lot of players from the entire beginning. it was always part of MW to customise your mech.

You would have a lot of crying and complaining, but I think they would have survived just fine. MPBT 3025 wasn't going to feature it, yet the beta is widely considered one of the best MW experiences to date. Then the mod, MWLL, didn't have it either and that had some of the best balance between weapons and mechs (and yes, they did make some changes to some variants weaponry and such, but for the most part it was relatively faithful to BT).

[Krivvan]

Nutlink, on 19 January 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

MPBT 3025 wasn't going to feature it, yet the beta is widely considered one of the best MW experiences to date. Then the mod, MWLL, didn't have it either and that had some of the best balance between weapons and mechs

And they both also weren't as popular. I know I stopped playing with MWLL after only a day or two.

[Nutlink]

Hard to compare popularity between 1) a beta from the late 90's, and 2) a mod for a game completely unrelated to the new content. The current version of MWO isn't exactly popular either, and if it wasn't an official game it wouldn't enjoy the minor popularity in the gaming world it currently holds anyway.

Anyways, it's a pointless debate and a moot point considering the game will never be that with the min/max mentality this community has developed over the years. Even if they did add a stock only mode to this game I doubt it would be touched very often these days considering how many mechs are Level One tech and how much people are clamoring for Level Three (and the leftover Level Two we haven't seen yet).

Edited by Nutlink, 19 January 2015 - 02:51 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Nutlink, on 19 January 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

You would have a lot of crying and complaining, but I think they would have survived just fine. MPBT 3025 wasn't going to feature it, yet the beta is widely considered one of the best MW experiences to date. Then the mod, MWLL, didn't have it either and that had some of the best balance between weapons and mechs (and yes, they did make some changes to some variants weaponry and such, but for the most part it was relatively faithful to BT).

If we had no customization, do you know what would happen? The game would zero in on the handful of reasonably well designed mechs in all of BT and every single other chassis would be useless. You think we have lack of variety now?
Also - clans. Their stock mechs are for the most part decent(ish) builds and would roflstomp IS stock mechs in 99% of cases without trying, meaning for balance youd have to run something like 10 clan vs 16 IS = 99.999923% of people choose clan because everyone wants to be the hero, not the zergling.

plus customisation is half the fun