178 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

DarthRevis, on 22 January 2015 - 12:03 PM, said:

stuff

and who has said they want that? I know Lukoi did not say that...you are putting words in his mouth.

The question posed what what would a good ROLE be for a PUG in the current CW? And your answer is they can make lots of c-Bills while losing all the time? Not seeing the FUN in that really.

Never put a word in any mouths. Just like you said. Just going from experiences past.

[Carrion Hound]

Ya'll complain to much. Chill, and have patience. Been saying this since.. forever. Give it time to grow. I don't particularily think you dropped out of your mother instantly grown up, with everything perfect and in place.

In fact, I don't think anyone has.

Look at it like this, the childhood phase of CW.

[Revis Volek]

Almond Brown, on 22 January 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

The question posed what what would a good ROLE be for a PUG in the current CW? And your answer is they can make lots of c-Bills while losing all the time? Not seeing the FUN in that really.

Never put a word in any mouths. Just like you said. Just going from experiences past.

Well thank you for the clarification, Experience is not a bad thing to go on anyway. As players its all we have since we dont have data at our finger tips.

I am for implementing a friendly style targeting system or just a revision to the current Unit leader controls and map controls in game. If we had more intricate controls (i.e. the ability to place waypoints, or paths for forces to follow) so that the team doesn't just get the equivalent of a few grunts and a defend or attack blob that just covers your minimap.

We just need more immersion....we basically took the 12v12 deathmatches and all the problems that they have already created put it into a different queue with the ability to track wins and losses (planets) but really nothing more or less.

So i am not surprised the same problems exist here as did in the group queues before 12 were kicked out of it by the majority.

Making it easier for solo and lone wolves to find out what we are doing will go a long way IMO to making CW that much better. FROM MY EXPERIENCE ( almond) most solo and pugs WANT to win and WANT to follow the group but for reasons that we dont need to know or even are owed explanations some of them CANNOT or DO NOT group up on comms. If you can play monkey see monkey do i dont see a big issue though.

[Hardin4188]

It's actually quite easy to play as a pugger. CW has been in place long enough now for standard formulas to develop and populations are small enough that you'll probably see the same people several times in a night. Just ask a few standard questions in chat. Which gate? Attrition or rush? Which mech? Group up where? For defense it's harder depending on how fast you can type, but still possible. Also most premades are using public teamspeak servers. Voice chat really does help with coordination.

So if you are an experienced player and are paying attention then you can have a good performing group.

[WarHippy]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 21 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Well, I tried out CW again this morning, with the new patches, and it still sucks. It is still a waste of time if you are not in a 12 man pre-made. It is CW for elitist a--holes only. Pugs and small groups need not apply, unless you have a particular fondness for the "Cannon Fodder" role.

I play solo and I have had little trouble doing well as an individual. I have been in games where my group of 12 randoms pugs was smashed by a 12 man team, I have been in games where 12 random pugs beat the 12 man team, and I have been in games where it ended in 48 kills to 46. A big problem most of us pugs have is our defeatist attitude where we give up before the fight even starts because we assume we can't win. You clearly fall into the category of "give up before anything happens" and frankly you are your own worst enemy. Kind of sad really.

Ragnar Bashmek, on 21 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

The way CW could become enjoyable for the majority of players is to do away with the 12x12 drops in favor of 4x4 drops.

No thanks. I like playing in and around the groups of various sizes. We also at one point in time had 4 man groups in the normal queue and people still complained that it wasn't fair to have the evil groups around and got the groups removed completely and people still complain about losing because of those evil sync droppers.

Ragnar Bashmek, on 21 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

This would substantially reduce MM wait times and would allow Pugs and small Lance sized groups to participate in a meaningful and enjoyable way.

CW has no MM, and removing 12 mans isn't going to fix the wait times.

Ragnar Bashmek, on 21 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

It would also put the established 12 man competition teams back to doing whatever it is they normally do and get them out of everybody elses hair. Russ seems to be obsessed with "what the competition players want/think" and unfortunately this is reflected in the design of CW.

What exactly do you think those 12 man teams are going back to? They have been chased off of every other game mode for the most part by people like you that give up before the game starts and refuse to put forth any effort.

Ragnar Bashmek, on 21 January 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Until I can Pug drop into CW without having to face 12 man comp teams, I'm done with CW. This really pisses me off because I was sooo looking forward to CW and it has turned out to nothing but a BJ for the comp teams.

As a fellow pug I can't say I'm sad to see you avoiding CW because it means you are not getting your way. Frankly the idea of a planets fate being decided by 12 random Rambo's in a solo queue is insulting. I much prefer seeing the big units dominating the field in one form or another, and I am content with adding what I can to the outcome as a solo player.

[ZenFool]

Carrion Hound, on 22 January 2015 - 12:33 PM, said:

Ya'll complain to much. Chill, and have patience. Been saying this since.. forever. Give it time to grow. I don't particularily think you dropped out of your mother instantly grown up, with everything perfect and in place.

In fact, I don't think anyone has.

Look at it like this, the childhood phase of CW.

Very true, but the community is one of the tools PGI uses to initiate changes. Between their data and the forum posts they'll get a good idea as to what to do. Raw data is good, but we provide the context to the numbers.

[Mystere]

Ragnar Bashmek, on 22 January 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

The only way to get rid of these a__holes in CW is to do away with 12 man drops.

Four man drops would accomplish a number of worthwhile goals for CW.

It would allow small Units to field teams that could fight on equal footing with the larger Units.

It would greatly enhance the ability of Pugs to participate in a meaningful way because it is much easier for 4 Pugs to coordinate effectively than it is for 12 Pugs.

It would greatly reduce MM wait times.

It would make it more practical for the MM to play Pugs against Pugs and Teams against Teams.

A variation on this theme would be to create a separate "universe" for the 12 man teams and have a 4 man team universe for Pugs and smaller Units. This would be similar to current arrangement where competition squads play in private matches and the rest of us play the public queue.

OMFG! This is a 100% repeat of the public queues.

I am now willing to bet what the next screaming will be about once this "idea" is placed in the CW queues:

• "4-man teams are the Devil incarnate. We solos demand a solo-only CW queue. We do not want to fight against any groups. PGI, do it nao or I will rage quit!"

• "People are synch dropping! PGI fix this stupid thing nao!!!"

By the way, I only play solo.

[Mystere]

DarthRevis, on 22 January 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

WHY THE HELL DOES EVERYONE WANT TO TAKE THE TEAM ASPECT OUT OF A TEAM GAME?

Because they were born to be Mechwarrior gods, and gods cannot be killed. But, teamwork by their enemies kills them -- always.

[Mystere]

Hardin4188, on 22 January 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

It's actually quite easy to play as a pugger. CW has been in place long enough now for standard formulas to develop and populations are small enough that you'll probably see the same people several times in a night. Just ask a few standard questions in chat. Which gate? Attrition or rush? Which mech? Group up where? For defense it's harder depending on how fast you can type, but still possible. Also most premades are using public teamspeak servers. Voice chat really does help with coordination.

So if you are an experienced player and are paying attention then you can have a good performing group.

The problem is that apparently quite a number of solo players don't even want to do that.

[Mystere]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

A big problem most of us pugs have is our defeatist attitude where we give up before the fight even starts because we assume we can't win. You clearly fall into the category of "give up before anything happens" and frankly you are your own worst enemy. Kind of sad really.

That is a problem that so many solo players suffer from.

People think they really can't win? If so, why not strive to at least give the enemy a bloody nose? It's a very good start in my book.

[ZenFool]

Give them a bloody nose? That is literally all they are capable of. Seriously, I've played as a 12 man vs. pugs. It is a shooting gallery. I've played as pugs vs. 12 man. I am the target. The idea I think PGI should be striving for is a game that has a swing of 20 mechs or less. I know that sometimes this won't be possible, but as it stands the pugs get stomped 48 to 10 over and over again. To tell these people to "get good" or "join a team" only belittles them and gives them less incentive to play. We NEED them to play. Hopefully the scouting missions etc. will give them a place, but as it stands there is no reason for them to play and elitist attitudes of "I'm in a group so you suck!" do NOT help.

[Mystere]

ZenFool, on 22 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Give them a bloody nose? That is literally all they are capable of. Seriously, I've played as a 12 man vs. pugs. It is a shooting gallery. I've played as pugs vs. 12 man. I am the target. The idea I think PGI should be striving for is a game that has a swing of 20 mechs or less. I know that sometimes this won't be possible, but as it stands the pugs get stomped 48 to 10 over and over again. To tell these people to "get good" or "join a team" only belittles them and gives them less incentive to play. We NEED them to play. Hopefully the scouting missions etc. will give them a place, but as it stands there is no reason for them to play and elitist attitudes of "I'm in a group so you suck!" do NOT help.

Yes, giving the enemy 12-man a bloody nose is a very good start compared to being a mere defeatist.

I've led enough PUGs against 12-man teams that turned potential stomps (i.e. 48-10[-]) to bloody noses (48-20[++]), and even a few victories. Motivation and willingness to work together is the key.

Ask around whose legs I have collected during those very fun matches. <maniacal >

Edited by Mystere, 22 January 2015 - 03:55 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Mystere, on 22 January 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Yes, giving the enemy 12-man a bloody nose is a very good start compared to being a mere defeatist.

I've led enough PUGs against 12-man teams that turned potential stomps (i.e. 48-10[-]) to bloody noses (48-20[++]), and even a few victories. Motivation and willingness to work together is the key.

Ask around whose legs I have collected during those very fun matches. <maniacal >

I believe you still have a few of my mech legs from facing an MS 12 man...which I want returned by the way. I will be making a combat stop on Blackjack later...swing by and leave the legs at the base for me.

I have faced some epic PUG groups in CW...Marik and Jade Falcon have probably provided the best random groups, leaving me thinking that they are finally using their faction comms.

I see that some folks still love to pop in to this thread and make demonizing comments about 12 man units. To those folks, and you know who you are from the salty tears you spill...I don't think any of the large units have told PUG's not to play CW...and placing any blame for game design flaws on the teams that take part in the game is idiotic. The reason CW sucks for PUGS is the queue time. Bar none the wait is a killer. Even with the recent fix it can easily take nearly the full 10 minutes to get a match on a planet that sends out a call to arms. If more PUG's took part in CW there would be more PUG vs PUG battles in CW. But if losing is the problem your having your screwed. It's a game. If your not good enough at the game you will lose, and if losing makes you not want to play then you should probably stop playing games. No amount of demonizing large units will help you.

Edited by Ax2Grind, 22 January 2015 - 04:12 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Almond Brown, on 22 January 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

The question posed what what would a good ROLE be for a PUG in the current CW? And your answer is they can make lots of c-Bills while losing all the time? Not seeing the FUN in that really.

You make less money winning an attack than you do losing a defense.

.....and you can form faction groups, its no longer restricted to your unit, you don't even have to sync drop.

[jackal40]

Yokaiko, on 22 January 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

You make less money winning an attack than you do losing a defense.

.....and you can form faction groups, its no longer restricted to your unit, you don't even have to sync drop.

And I can make more money by dropping in public queue than I can playing CW.

[Budor]

jackal40, on 22 January 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

And I can make more money by dropping in public queue than I can playing CW.

With anyone you want to in any mech you own.

[Yokaiko]

Budor, on 22 January 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

With anyone you want to in any mech you own.

Yup.

I've been saying that from the get.

[Hardin4188]

Mystere, on 22 January 2015 - 02:49 PM, said:

The problem is that apparently quite a number of solo players don't even want to do that.

Which just puzzles me. We all knew what community warfare was going to be, what it's about. If you aren't going to cooperate then why are you even playing it? That's what public match is for.

When I was with Steiner those first few weeks were tough. We were getting stomped hard, by Lord, JFP, JFO. It was rough. But I got on teamspeak. Steiner players developed new tactics (yes that includes the thunderbolt) and we taking planets back. You don't have to join a unit to be successful, and it's even easier now with faction group invites.

Edited by Hardin4188, 22 January 2015 - 05:34 PM.

[3CLIPZ3]

As long as you have a small group and TS room, just invite them to join in and then you have coms and a 12-man or close to it.

[Biggest Salami]

Hardin4188, on 22 January 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

Which just puzzles me. We all knew what community warfare was going to be, what it's about. If you aren't going to cooperate then why are you even playing it? That's what public match is for.

Who's this "we all"? Because I'm pretty sure no one told me that CW was only supposed to be an option for premade team players. As a PUG princess I don't actually have a problem with CW re: pugging, but the way you act as if puggers are not welcome and shouldn't be trying to play CW is ridiculous.

Your argument isn't "CW is fine for puggers". Your argument is "LOL dumb puggers should have known CW wasn't for them." WTH.