388 replies to this topic

[Yokaiko]

Charkra, on 26 January 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

I have had the exact opposite experience vs clans. As an IS player i find that i always get bulldozed by clans. They roll in with a bunch of dire whales. we barely fend them off. Then in comes like 3 waves of crows and timbers. The only hope IS has is thunderbolts.

Fun fact, if there is a wave with anything bigger than a Timber, those pilots are running a badder or shitfox somewhere in their drop deck......couple that with the fact that whales are generally a bad idea if you need y'know move AND you are stuck with a gimped clan light, that isn't exactly desirable.

Hence the three crow TW deck.

We have a few guy that scratch the TW in favor of Hellbringers and/or Mad Dogs, but again, the Stormcrow is WAY to much bang for the buck at its weight, you are going to see a lot of them.

Harathan, on 26 January 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Visited the thread hoping for something new. Turns out, it's just a 9S whine thread with a misleading title.

Oh well.

Which is hilarious, you just charge them and they fall apart.

[Nori Silverrage]

Yokaiko, on 26 January 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

Drop with a 12 on the other side, you are likely going to lose, so what, its not nearly as common as people make it out to be.

You say that yet this isn't my experience in the last week. Maybe I'm just really unlucky, but something like 4 out of 7 of the last CW drops I've done have been against 10-12 mans.

[Jon Gotham]

Hutijin, on 26 January 2015 - 12:52 PM, said:

I am pleased but a little shocked that he is not being told to "play better" or "suck it up". The fact is playing better does not fix a mech that can spam you from 50 miles away and then you get farmed at the dropship after that. CW has become just pathetic. All it is is farming at the dropship now. The 12 mans have taken over and the rest of us pugs, that actually help the game survive, get screwed. I think it is a big mistake for PGI to push people into groups that want to be casual gamers. WoW tried that and saw their subscriptions go down to their lowest levels (that and crap content). Now I do not even play CW anymore as it is a stomp fest of Tbolt 9s and dropship farming. I have played this game since beta and CW has just become a waste of time for me. I know I should "play better" or "learn to beat Tbolt spam", but if it is join a 12 man or get smoked, I will be spending my hard earned paycheks on something else...soon.

Hang on one sec old fruit. Wow lost subs because it tried to cater to the casual market that bit too much. There has to be a balance.
MWO casuals already have a solo player queue-just for them in a multiplayer game. When voip lands....it will be very solo friendly indeed-almost to the point of why bother grouping up?


What is needed is a better new player experience, actual training on the game's points-how to build mechs and so on. One thing I'd like to see is you get 100% of the value of a mech back, say limit it to twice a week or something. Less expensive errors for newbies maybe?

[Faith McCarron]

Yokaiko, on 26 January 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

PUBLIC QUEUE

If you are that scared of getting your anti-social-vitual-willy smacked in a team based game BY A TEAM you have the public queue where the big bad teams can't hurt you.

Its right there, I dealt with PGI ACTIVELY restricting my team play for YEARS (remember no teams between 4 and 8/12) because these anti-social neckbeards wouldn't STFU, they can get out I really don't care if CW is fair to dabblers. At all.




His point is backed up by real events in PGI's history.

PGI hasn't been up and up with us ...basically ever.

Dude, I'm on your side as to the benefits of playing in a group. I've been in a group virtually since day 1 of this game. And hell, I'm pompous and elitist and yell my lungs out at pugs when I get stuck with them. But that DOESN'T mean I want to kick them to the curb and tell them they can only play practice mode, and it doesn't mean I'm under the illusion that we group players can sustain this game financially on our own. Just sayin', bro.

[Triordinant]

cruxholzer, on 26 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

It may not work, if that is the case then PGI needs to go back to the original design. I believe CW will die without involving the pugs. People are always going to try to game the system. PGI could mitigate that by only allowing 3 players from any Unit into a pug drop, there by not allowing sync drops.

They'll just go "on leave" from the Unit to sync-drop in the CW solo queue. The big picture is, as I pointed out in paragraph 2, PGI took a gamble on CW and it doesn't seem to have worked. CW won't completely die. Many top-tier competitive Units like to claim they hate easy wins over random PUGs and love hard-fought, challenging battles against their equals. The way CW is turning out, that's exactly what they'll get -and as I pointed out, VOIP might make it take longer to get there, but CW played mostly by big, competitive Units is where it's headed.

All is not lost, though. PGI still has one last card to play in the hopes of fully engaging the PUGs that make up the majority of MWO players: PvE. The irony is that's what this game was originally supposed to be. It wasn't even called MWO. Behold:

Edited by Triordinant, 26 January 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Faith McCarron]

I found it funny listening to the CW roundtable, I forget which unit leader it was, but he was going on and on about how pro units hate turret drops and hate fighting pugs, and how all pro units really enjoy matches against other 12-mans. Then someone suggested seperate group and pug queues for CW like you have for the public matches, and suddenly he said it was a bad idea because teams would just split up and enter the pug queue and would sync drop because they were all the same faction. Well, not if they "relish the challenge" like he would have had us believe 2 minutes earlier. Bottom line is you can't bet on altruism.

[wanderer]

Quote

Pugs should play pugs, groups should play groups. Its that simple.

More appropriately, there should be smaller game modes where PUGs aren't at a critical disadvantage *coughseemysigcough*).

It's OK to have PUGs in the group queue. They can fill in the gaps where a unit may only have 8-10 players without causing grevious harm. It's not OK to have only a mode that demands large groups to be effective in CW. We need "raid" sized fights, not just planetary-assault sized ones...because 12-mans are honestly too big a bite for a PUG to digest.

Simply splitting queues would result in sync dropping and more stomping, because if there's a way to win decisively? Units will do it. Better to build a smaller-scale CW mode (the current public maps would be excellent starters) and integrate it with what we already have.

As for the -9S, I've been in waves where 8-9 at once rolled in. The rate of fire is pure brutality and mows down opponents like wheat.

[RG Notch]

wanderer, on 26 January 2015 - 03:09 PM, said:

More appropriately, there should be smaller game modes where PUGs aren't at a critical disadvantage *coughseemysigcough*).

It's OK to have PUGs in the group queue. They can fill in the gaps where a unit may only have 8-10 players without causing grevious harm. It's not OK to have only a mode that demands large groups to be effective in CW. We need "raid" sized fights, not just planetary-assault sized ones...because 12-mans are honestly too big a bite for a PUG to digest.

Simply splitting queues would result in sync dropping and more stomping, because if there's a way to win decisively? Units will do it. Better to build a smaller-scale CW mode (the current public maps would be excellent starters) and integrate it with what we already have.

As for the -9S, I've been in waves where 8-9 at once rolled in. The rate of fire is pure brutality and mows down opponents like wheat.

I'm curious about something in these smaller matches. What's going to stop the solo PUGs, who seem to be the loudest whiners about facing groups, from whining that the smaller queues are full of baby eating seal clubbing pre made 4 or 8 man teams? I get the smaller team queues will help smaller groups, but I don't see the level of whine from them.

[Yokaiko]

RG Notch, on 26 January 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

I'm curious about something in these smaller matches. What's going to stop the solo PUGs, who seem to be the loudest whiners about facing groups, from whining that the smaller queues are full of baby eating seal clubbing pre made 4 or 8 man teams? I get the smaller team queues will help smaller groups, but I don't see the level of whine from them.

Specially since in a 4 man each member counts a LOT more for the overall firepower of the team.

[wanderer]

Because you make those smaller groups just that- 4 players maximum. With a smaller drop deck- 3 'Mechs, 180T maximum.

Even organized, TTK from four people firing on one is less than four, plus LRMs, or perhaps 6+.

To give you a example of PUGstomping at it's finest, I was filling in a Liao unit. They called for a -9S wave.

We sat there and incinerated a dozen 'Mechs inside of two minutes vs. no losses of ours, and in many cases the only thing that kept us from killing more was dropship fire precision-picking off 'Mechs otherwise in good cover and arty strikes. We ended up with them on their third and fourth 'Mechs before we got finished with our second, and the next wave of heavies was going in against a hodgepodge of lesser machines we just rolled over without serious worry.

That's what happens when six+ 'Mechs with a high rate of fire can cut loose on a single target. We were blowing parts off 'Mechs before they got mobile, de-armoring entire torsos simply by firing roughly center-of-mass, pinning targets behind cover left and right. That it's energy weapon fire means unlike, say a Dragon-1N,you can keep chainfiring pretty much indefinitely.

Edited by wanderer, 26 January 2015 - 03:31 PM.

[Harathan]

Yokaiko, on 26 January 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

Specially since in a 4 man each member counts a LOT more for the overall firepower of the team.

Maybe the solution isn't a 4 man game mode then. Maybe the solution is maps big enough, with objectives widely spread enough, that Lances operating away from each other is the norm rather than the exception.

Edited by Harathan, 26 January 2015 - 03:32 PM.

[Lindonius]

Kjudoon, on 26 January 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

>cough< Phase 3: Logistics >cough<

The day this game gets proper, working logistics will be the day monkeys come flying out of my arse. They just dumped minimally viable CW on us and then promised it will get better. Like they have been doing with MWO as a whole ever since closed beta.

As a previous poster pointed out, 8 maps and 3 game modes for a game that's been running for nearly 3 years, and in "development" for 5.

What I find quite unfathomable is how people still believe them when they say they are going to do something. Some people almost regard PGI's words as sacrosanct fact even though they have a demonstrable track record of lying to their customers.

To honestly continue to believe what these charlatans say takes a special kind of special.

Really. Well done.

Edited by Lindonius, 26 January 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Livewyr]

Solution: Intra-faction territories (provinces) held by units. (With 1-2 provinces for pubbie players, per faction.)

Don't feel like fighting the 228th or SJR? Avoid their territories as best as possible.

-----------------------------
The way I see it: 8/12mans were removed from public queues for a reason... to make CW another queue... with 12mans thrown in is kind of a headscratcher.

(Nevermind the lack of diplomacy or enforcement...)

[Snorty Jackson]

All i can say is clanners need to STFU about the quirks on IS. We all know that the dominating component of CW is como, but the idea that quirks make the thuderbolt or stalker OP. OMG! Every CLAN WEAPON IS A QUIRK. So quit complaining.

[Molossian Dog]

TDR-9S:

Takes me back to the Gauss/2xPPC times. And I get a headache.
Clans give me a headache too.

-----------------------------------------------------------

CW´s problems:

A ) Only 2 hours before a ceasefire matter. Otherwise hard to get a game at all.

B ) Strategically speaking you -WANT- ghost drops.* But ghost drops -SUCK-. It is a waste of everyone´s time.
C ) So you queue up and wait for -not- playing. Which sucks even more.
D ) And -when- you get to play there are two maps and one gamemode. Which sucks.
E ) The respective map pretty much defines win or defeat. (at least heavily favours one side)
Which you might have guessed it sucks too.



*You pile on 12 mans to occupy hostile 12 mans and slip in ghost drops. That is how I witnessed the Steiners do it. I guess this is also like everyone else does it. You do that in the 2-3 hours before a ceasefire and you´re done. It feels like work instead of fun. Also very cheap. The whole ceasefire mechanic is crap. It actually invites people to do stuff like this. You cant blame anyone to play the system he is given. Blame the system.

Edited by Molossian Dog, 26 January 2015 - 04:14 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

Harathan, on 26 January 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

Visited the thread hoping for something new. Turns out, it's just a 9S whine thread with a misleading title.

Oh well.

Not just a whine about the 9S, but also about IS 12 man units!

[Lord de Seis]

CW hasn't been around for to long and it is in beta. I agree with you completely with what you are saying, the TDR needs to be looked at but I think the unfortunate reality of the situation is groups will just come up with some other stomp 12 man build.

It is a work in progress and I think PGI has really turned the page since IGP left but everyone has to be realistic that more content will take time and CW will take time to properly develop.

Having grouped and ungrouped players will be an issue though, the reason separate queues were introduced in the "normal" game was because of the very same reason. Groups would stomp ungrouped players and making it quite unenjoyable for a large number of people.

Edited by Lord de Seis, 26 January 2015 - 04:49 PM.

[Ax2Grind]

The Thunderbolt is just a usable mech at a drop tonnage that works well for CW. If anything, more IS mechs could still use buffs. The 9S is not ruining the game. Teamwork will always be OP, and that's what this game mode highlights...

[Kjudoon]

Molossian Dog, on 26 January 2015 - 04:09 PM, said:

TDR-9S:

Takes me back to the Gauss/2xPPC times. And I get a headache.
Clans give me a headache too.

-----------------------------------------------------------

CW´s problems:

A ) Only 2 hours before a ceasefire matter. Otherwise hard to get a game at all.

B ) Strategically speaking you -WANT- ghost drops.* But ghost drops -SUCK-. It is a waste of everyone´s time.
C ) So you queue up and wait for -not- playing. Which sucks even more.
D ) And -when- you get to play there are two maps and one gamemode. Which sucks.
E ) The respective map pretty much defines win or defeat. (at least heavily favours one side)
Which you might have guessed it sucks too.



*You pile on 12 mans to occupy hostile 12 mans and slip in ghost drops. That is how I witnessed the Steiners do it. I guess this is also like everyone else does it. You do that in the 2-3 hours before a ceasefire and you´re done. It feels like work instead of fun. Also very cheap. The whole ceasefire mechanic is crap. It actually invites people to do stuff like this. You cant blame anyone to play the system he is given. Blame the system.

You get it. Unfortunately you're going to have to beat some people to death with a ham sandwich before they get it too.

[Davers]

Ax2Grind, on 26 January 2015 - 04:42 PM, said:

Not just a whine about the 9S, but also about IS 12 man units!

This is an equal opportunity thread.