164 replies to this topic

[Vlad Ward]

Yoseful Mallad, on 28 January 2015 - 01:46 PM, said:

true but whatever a player run unit was to pay out in a contract t get a Merc unit to come play for that faction, is just that... A payout to come play. That money would be transferred from coffer to coffer and the Merc units can use that for travel expenses and so on. Because we know that's coming. As for the mercs themselves, getting payed out, we are all still making money in matchs for whatever we do in a match that has nothing to do with our contracts.

Mercs don't need to be paid to fight more matches. The elephant in the room right now is that certain Faction players want to pay Mercs to not fight on certain worlds.

The phrasing may vary a little depending on who you ask. Maybe someone will say "Mercs should be paid only to attack certain planets/factions". But the result is the same. As a Smoke Jaguar player, for instance, no one needs to pay me to attack Kurita. The disagreement arises when I want to attack Ghost Bear and Faction units want to pay me to leave them alone.

[Revis Volek]

Peter2000, on 28 January 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

Or, you know, it's your own fault for pretending like the Ghost Bear front doesn't exist. The same mercs you vilify for actually playing the game and "taking your drops" want to fight and play the game. But when we suggested that diplomatically closing ALL BUT ONE of your fronts makes that hard, we were repeatedly attacked on these forums.

Did i once say that you were wrong for playing the game you wanted to play? No, all i said was that I HAD NO WHERE TO PLAY WHERE I WANTED TO PLAY.

I am entitled to play where i want to play as well Peter....this goes both ways.

No one said the GB front didnt exist. We just have no desire to go the opposite way of the goal (Terra).

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 January 2015 - 02:06 PM.

[Big Tin Man]

Mogney, on 28 January 2015 - 01:44 PM, said:

Totally opposed to players offering contracts. Contracts should be offered by the house nobles. I.e. The game itself. No added drama please.

Drama adds player interest, game depth, and... players.

[Big Tin Man]

What about leaving a base contract by the House Nobles to fight on any of their fronts on their behalf (i.e. leave the existing contracts as is, just add unit issued contracts on top of it)? This would keep the house units from completely dictating the fight direction, but would simply provide incentive pushing one way.

Edited by Big Tin Man, 28 January 2015 - 02:05 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Drunk Canuck, on 28 January 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

Mind the loyalists Russ, they seem to be of the opinion that they can control what mercenaries should and shouldn't do in game. They seem to also believe that any unit that joins their faction, should be following the whims of the other units within the faction (though more specifically loyalists). I experienced this toxic behavior from some of the loyalist units in Clan Smoke Jaguar when my now former unit decided to attack Clan Ghost Bear from CSJ space a couple of weeks ago. We obviously had a reason for doing so, and we did not expect to see open hostility and bashing from people we don't play with, nor had we contacted them about our intentions prior to switching contracts. Sure, it was a bad move on our part, but we didn't deserve the way some people treated us for what was our own decision, and we really didn't want to waste time pug stomping Kurita some more since they seem to have enough issues without us bugging them.

Are you mistaking not supporting and being open about it with bashing?

I dont know of or had seen anyone who "BASHED" you for not doing what we as a whole wanted (granted i dont see every thread and dont claim to). You are entitled to play the game how you want as are we i dont see the issue with you attacking GB if that was what you wanted. Even so....just give them what for right back man.

And if anyone from SA (Smoke Adders) is bashing or being negative or insulting then please report them to us. We will deal with it internally as we do not tolerate that kind of behavior from our Pilots.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 January 2015 - 02:04 PM.

[Jman5]

Here is some food for thought. Instead of simply joining up on a faction and attacking whichever planet, you get assigned specific bonus contracts that still facilitate winning.

For example FRR assigns a bonus contract for your team to get 60 kills in the next 24 hours on Lovinac. If you complete the contract you are awarded a 1,000,000 cbill bonus. Or another example: Do over 3,000 damage over 3 games on Lovinac and receive a 500,000 cbills bonus.

You could use the contract bonus feature to guide the community into playing the game in a way that's less cheesy and more fun for both sides. For example a kill bonus contract might encourage teams to fight it out on attack instead of generator rushing. Same with damage.

The sky is the limit here on what sort of pro-fun bonuses you could insert into the game. They also act as a sort of gold star award for factions that lose planets.

[Vlad Ward]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

Did i once say that you were wrong for playing the game you wanted to play? No, all i said was that I HAD NO WHERE TO PLAY WHERE I WANTED TO PLAY.

I am entitled to play where i want to play as well Peter....this goes both ways.

This is exactly why there was a 120+ person war being waged on the Ghost Bear border last night. People wanted to play and all our other opponents rolled over. You should've joined in, it was fun.

[Summon3r]

well obviously one units leader trying to dictate mercs for a whole faction could turn out badly? but does this not further the need for an ingame faction chat for the whole faction then also a branch for faction officers and then maybe branch for the top echelon of faction leaders to get things done.. OF COURSE NOT EVERYONE WILL AGREE on everything, but there is a lot of pieces to the puzzle missing here......

if the kuritans so choose to hire 2 or 3 merc units to push back csj and cgb or JUST csj but the mercs break the contract and hit someone else then the contract is null and void? isnt CW and MWO for that matter supposed to be a team game? start really forcing factions to come together... id love to see this happen somehow someway.

and lets not kid ourselves there is a massive amount of "stuff" that needs sorting and ironing out

[Vlad Ward]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

Are you mistaking not supporting and being open about it with bashing?

I dont know of or had seen anyone who "BASHED" you for not doing what we as a whole wanted (granted i dont see every thread and dont claim to). You are entitled to play the game how you want as are we i dont see the issue with you attacking GB if that was what you wanted. Even so....just give them what for right back man.

And if anyone from SA (Smoke Adders) is bashing or being negative or insulting then please report them to us. We will deal with it internally as we do not tolerate that kind of behavior from our Pilots.

The Unsanctioned Attack thread in the CSJ forums started out pretty nasty. It's a lot more reasonable now, but the damage was already done.

[Drunk Canuck]

Gyrok, on 28 January 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Those unit leaders could meet certain criteria first. The contract, also, does not have to be taken. If someone puts out a contract and, say, a week passes with no action, it is stricken and a new one may be placed in a queue, or the old contract edited.

No, and I have already given enough reasons in recent weeks as to why allowing loyalists control over mercenaries is a bad idea. But if you would like me to keep outlining them, I will continue to do so.

1. Mercenaries would have no combat freedom unless they can fight for the faction anywhere in the Inner Sphere.
2. Alliances would be forced upon those who wish to take a contract with a faction, which means that current issues like the CSJ/CGB alliance would make the game less fun and there would be even more issues of lack in fights for mercenaries.
3. It would continue to balloon the problem of faction imbalance, as the factions that offer the most money are going to get preferred and those with the money would be the most successful factions in CW.

[Revis Volek]

Vlad Ward, on 28 January 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

This is exactly why there was a 120+ person war being waged on the Ghost Bear border last night. People wanted to play and all our other opponents rolled over. You should've joined in, it was fun.

We did....had 2 SA teams in the queue....how do you think it was at 120+?

We refuse to give the GB world backs now that we have them without terms and reparations for Santander IV.

If GB wants them it will have to be taken from a stout defense... or come have a chat and send ACTUAL GB units. We wont be letting Mercs Ghost drop on them to take them either.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 January 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[CutterWolf]

I just want to know what ever happened to this idea?

**From the PC Gamer interview with PGI**

"There will be a third type of a planet that Mercenary groups will be able to acquire through a contract bidding system. These planets will change ownership regularly as Mercenary groups rapidly outbid each other."

In that interview and other interviews where PGI talked about CW the system was to be set up like this: IS House can fight other IS House or the Clans, Clans can fight IS Houses or other Clans, and Mercs would only be fighting other Merc units on fringe worlds threw a contract system.

That type of system limits everyone equality so we don't have what we have now which is not CW in anyway. Being in a unit/company/clan has to mean something. Logistics of getting from one side of the galaxy to the other needs to be implemented. Planets need to have some kind of "tactical value" (i.e control of a space port, mech factory or jumpship lane). And there needs to be pre-made group ques and lone wolf ques for CW. Pre-made faction groups need to be able to pick the planet them want to hit, (this is where the "tactical value" come into play) Lone wolf player would be able to drop into any open planet attack or defense que to fill in gaps in the pre-made faction ques that match their faction.

However you (PGI) need to place good limits on what units/companys/clans can do to balance the system out ASAP.

Look Russ, implementing features into CW that make units/companys/clans think and plan before they act so they have to engage their minds instead of just their mouse button finger will draw the number of player your looking for to CW. Having it just continue to be a mindless game mode with no real reason "why" to play it is driving players off. Help us help you.........

Edited by CutterWolf, 28 January 2015 - 02:36 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

DarthRevis, on 28 January 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

Did i once say that you were wrong for playing the game you wanted to play? No, all i said was that I HAD NO WHERE TO PLAY WHERE I WANTED TO PLAY.

I am entitled to play where i want to play as well Peter....this goes both ways.

No one said the GB front didnt exist. We just have no desire to go the opposite way of the goal (Terra).

Yet your faction blatantly criticized both QQ and 228th for their actions which were legitimate and within the designs of the game, and that is where the problem lies. We have every right to play the game the way we choose to play it, the same as you do and we really had no issues with fighting Kurita, however we knew that there weren't going to be any good fights out of it. Yet we weren't the one's going on the forums and causing a complete hurricane of controversy because we attacked CGB of our own volition. Just because you choose not to fight the Bears as a Clan doesn't mean that everyone else should follow suit.

[CyclonerM]

Vlad Ward, on 28 January 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

That has come up a few times in various threads and even a quick glance at the numbers involved can easily demonstrate that there is no viable way for House units to be able to afford the kind of prices that Merc units should be charging.

People tend to look at MW2: Mercs and see 1.5 million c-bill contracts for a planet defense and think that's a reasonable price to pay for mercs in MWO. The reality is that even a single 12-man running a low average of 500k a match is bringing in 6 million unit c-bills a game, which can easily hit 60-100 million c-bills in a single night's planet defense. Compared to that, 1.5 million c-bills is peanuts.

Correct. However, a while ago in CWI we started getting some money for our coffer, to be ready when we would have something to do with it..

I do not remember the exact number, let me just tell you that we could probably hire your 12men for a while...

Anyway, it is not like units would have to pay everything. Contract terms would include salvage, for example. All the added bonuses would go to the mercs.

[Alexander Steel]

Big Tin Man, on 28 January 2015 - 02:03 PM, said:

What about leaving a base contract by the House Nobles to fight on any of their fronts on their behalf (i.e. leave the existing contracts as is, just add unit issued contracts on top of it)? This would keep the house units from completely dictating the fight direction, but would simply provide incentive pushing one way.

This is exactly what I mean when I say Carrot and not the stick.

[Alexander Steel]

CutterWolf, on 28 January 2015 - 02:14 PM, said:

I just want to know what ever happened to this idea?

**From the PC Gamer interview with PGI**

"There will be a third type of a planet that Mercenary groups will be able to acquire through a contract bidding system. These planets will change ownership regularly as Mercenary groups rapidly outbid each other."

When was that? There is a good chance that was just creative marketing fluff that had nothing behind it but whatever would sell items. Basically anything talked about before last year? Or mid last year probably never will happen.

[Revis Volek]

Drunk Canuck, on 28 January 2015 - 02:21 PM, said:

Yet your faction blatantly criticized both QQ and 228th for their actions which were legitimate and within the designs of the game, and that is where the problem lies. We have every right to play the game the way we choose to play it, the same as you do and we really had no issues with fighting Kurita, however we knew that there weren't going to be any good fights out of it. Yet we weren't the one's going on the forums and causing a complete hurricane of controversy because we attacked CGB of our own volition. Just because you choose not to fight the Bears as a Clan doesn't mean that everyone else should follow suit.

Again, Please READ MY WHOLE POST.

You are arguing with yourself at this point. Please show me where I said that.....Because that quote above you said we may both do as we please because there are no rules against it. only players asking other player to help with what they feel is the most important.

You need to re read and comprehend what i said before you post bud. We already went over this and I am finished repeating myself.


Also, big shocker, I DON'T CONTROL MY FACTION!

I can hardly control the members we have....and why would I even want to do that? I'm no Khan, Or where did i say i wanted to? and so what we criticized you? Cant handle a little criticism? Need to stay off the internet then. Criticism and insulting are two different things.....we may disagree and be critical all we want as long as it is not rude or insulting what the big deal? we are all adults here from what i can tell.

Edited by DarthRevis, 28 January 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

When was that? There is a good chance that was just creative marketing fluff that had nothing behind it but whatever would sell items. Basically anything talked about before last year? Or mid last year probably never will happen.

I thought up until a few months ago they were still promising mercs their own faction?

I only remember it changing at the last minute when they were taking feedback on some details so they could fulfill their December promise.

[CutterWolf]

Alexander Steel, on 28 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

When was that? There is a good chance that was just creative marketing fluff that had nothing behind it but whatever would sell items. Basically anything talked about before last year? Or mid last year probably never will happen.

A long time ago my friend, but what you tactfully call "creative marketing fluff" us people who live in the real world call it, "deceiving paying customers". All of PGI's talks and interviews leading up to CW included that idea and in all that time (literally years they never stated that they were going to have to go another direction for **enter reason here**) It was a good start, a way to balance things across the board so my question to PGI is, "What is the plan now?" I don't want a pipe dream answer either, I want them to us what they can pull off based on their skill set and the limitations of the game engine.

Edited by CutterWolf, 28 January 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[MercStar Recruiter]

Russ Bullock, on 28 January 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

Well this is unfair I simply stated that is what I have to use at the moment. We will review this thread and others like it for discussion in our Friday design meeting - no doubt were looking to add features.

Add a multiplier to over all winnings 10% to get players to shif factions more everything is better then just when you win and will help players when they lose, it will also help keep players in CW, the other thing is maybe give solo que players a flat bonus 50k per game extra if you solo que, would help solo players a lot.

Edited by MercStar Recruiter, 28 January 2015 - 03:18 PM.