717 replies to this topic

[Aethon]

Joseph Mallan, on 02 February 2015 - 08:05 AM, said:

My problem with your way is You died. You have no say on how the survivor MUST play.

That is just it, though; you use the word 'play'. If that person hides in the corner of the map on a kill-only game mode and shuts down, they are NOT playing MWO. They are not doing anything at all.

In short, I am not dictating *how* they should play; I am simply saying they should play the game in some way, shape, or form.

And before anyone tries to justify powering down and waiting for the timer to expire in a kill-only, no-cap mode, as 'playing the game their way', imagine everyone doing that at the start of a match. That is not gameplay.

[Kjudoon]

20 pages.

20... pages... ::shaking head and tut tutting::

Twenty whole pages of a few people trying to explain to a self centered little lot that their boredom does not give them the right to violate CoC through team treason, because of their own OPINION about another set of rules.

Just wow.

And I'm accused of being the stubborn one.

That's sort of like Idi Amin telling Ghandi "You are way too intense!"

Edited by Kjudoon, 02 February 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[RG Notch]

Kjudoon, on 02 February 2015 - 02:50 PM, said:

20 pages.

20... pages... ::shaking head and tut tutting::

Twenty whole pages of a few people trying to explain to a self centered little lot that their boredom does not give them the right to violate CoC through team treason, because of their own OPINION about another set of rules.

Just wow.

And I'm accused of being the stubborn one.

That's sort of like Idi Amin telling Ghandi "You are way too intense!"

20 pages because PGI refuses to simply state publicly whether or not it's a CoC violation to report shutdown players in skirmish mode. If it isn't then they need to state it clearly and stop having some of their employees spread the idea that is. This back and forth could be ended by one statement by PGI. You can say the CoC says it but again I ask why do people have the word of PGI employees that it is a violation. So yes keep saying it's all clear and settled while people who actually work for PGI and don't just shill for them on the forums say it is a violation. Then wonder why it is still going.
As usual if it doesn't involve making money, PGI can't be bothered.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Kjudoon, did you even bother to read the OP? Cause..it sure don't look like it. The OP is about getting REPORTED for not engaging when the last man standing in what appears to have been a Skirmish game mode drop, nothing was mentioned about team treason in the OP, not even after the editing.

Simple fact, we can report the last man standing in Skirmish for not engaging. Support has responded to emails about that subject and told us to report them. Spirit of the game, it's a great catchall phrase in the CoC, since it means whatever the hell PGI wants it to mean at any given time and it covers every single thing that can or could possibly happen, even things totally unforeseen at the current time due to bugs/exploits/hacks that come about in future iterations of the game. It also means we can report people for actions we personally consider griefing, harassment, and failure to otherwise confirm to the CoC as we interpret it...WE, the players, not PGI. PGI then looks at the report and takes it from there.

However, you make a report that PGI considers to be bogus, they let the first time slide. You continue to make bogus reports, they warn you to cease the harassment or else. You keep on making those bogus reports, you suddenly find yourself banned. Ask the Goonies about that protocol, lots of them aren't around anymore due to ignoring the warning.

Ask me how many people I've reported for refusing to engage in combat as the last man standing in Skirmish with more than 2 minutes on the clock and a Mech capable of combat...more than a few dozen, no warnings to cease, obviously not banned. Deductive reasoning alone should make it clear that reporting someone for that action is not a bogus report, add in that Support has told us to do this via emails and you don't even need to be able to reason at all, so you my good..whatever(profile is blank in some areas)...are in luck!

Team Treason is obviously wrong, it's even directly prohibited by the CoC, the few people who support it should be reported unless they are giving out the coords of a DC, so report em and remove em from the community, PROBLEM SOLVED!

Me reporting you for not actively participating in the Skirmish game mode, that's allowed, because if it turns out you do it a lot and try to cover it by shooting the enemy once and then hiding all game, guess what? The problem will be solved, and I doubt anyone would notice your departure if that's how you play. Obviously you aren't in to PvP games, you've stated so in this thread, so that brings up a question...why are you here? Seriously, why are you playing a game that's PURELY PvP from the ground up, PvE is something that's never actually been confirmed, just mentioned as something they'd LIKE to do at some point in the 'future', so why are you here? Don't take this is an attack, it's not, I'm actually interested in why you are playing since you want just a PvE game without any PvP and this is the total opposite of that.

[Raggedyman]

So I got a reply to my email

Quote

Hi there!
Thank you for your feedback and our apologies we could not reach your earlier. If the player B is still actively playing it is not considered non-participation.
For us powering down your mech for the purpose of letting the clock run out and maintaining your K/D ratio does not fall within the intended spirit of the shutdown mechanic, and is considered an act of non-participation.
Regards

GM_Patience
Piranha Games

So, going back to my OP and applying my understanding of the reply I got: as long as you aren't shutdown and clock sitting then you don't have to present yourself for immediate execution at the whim of the other team.

So don't threaten to report just because they aren't currently in your firing line, but if you think they are shutdown to save their KDR (not quite sure how you can prove the intent there, oh well...) then report them. IMO by just reporting them, not by going "If you don't present yourself to be shot I will report you", or variants there of.

And, once again, my personal favorite solution is: Find Them, Kill Them, Next Round.

Edited by Raggedyman, 12 February 2015 - 05:33 AM.

[That Dawg]

Kind them? ok, now I'm confused.

[Ghogiel]

I skimmed this thread and on the first 5 pages no one quoted the ToS which states>

Quote

Non-Participation Abuse
If a player has joined a match, they must have launched the game with intent to play. Players who are not moving, or are otherwise not participating in the spirit of the game, fall under this category. While we all understand the call of nature: Repeated abuse of this behaviour, similarly to 'Mech Suicide and Team Killing, results in an unfair advantage for the enemy teams, and is thus not considered acceptable use. Please keep in mind that idling on your cap point without armour or moving does not constitute a form of tactical "Base Defense".

running back to base and hiding even if not powered down when it's 11-3 is a violation.

[Widowmaker1981]

Why do people care so much?

It very rarely happens in the group queue (though when it does its irritating), and if i die early in the solo queue i always quit and drop in another mech anyway.. don't see why you wouldn't. not like you have buddies in there to watch..

Ill never do it though, the effect on my KDR of the 1 death in 20 this might save me is totally insignificant, so ill just go out guns blazing and end it (unless i think its winnable of course).

Only exception is very occasionally if the mech im driving is completely stripped of weapons and my team is winning ill go hide somewhere since i cant contribute anyway, might as well not die.

[pyrocomp]

Widowmaker1981, on 12 February 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Only exception is very occasionally if the mech im driving is completely stripped of weapons and my team is winning ill go hide somewhere since i cant contribute anyway, might as well not die.

Why cannot contribute& Scout, act as a bait or destruction. Seen how in the plus-minus even game (9-10 on the scoreboard) the disarmed mech lured enemy mechs backs under gausspult fire. And distraction some times is also vital.

[Joseph Mallan]

Aethon, on 02 February 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

That is just it, though; you use the word 'play'. If that person hides in the corner of the map on a kill-only game mode and shuts down, they are NOT playing MWO. They are not doing anything at all.

In short, I am not dictating *how* they should play; I am simply saying they should play the game in some way, shape, or form.

And before anyone tries to justify powering down and waiting for the timer to expire in a kill-only, no-cap mode, as 'playing the game their way', imagine everyone doing that at the start of a match. That is not gameplay.

If they did nothing at all you are right. If they participated in fighting then they did Play the game. If everyone else did that, I'd have 12 kills with no assists. Is that a problem for you?

[Ghogiel]

Joseph Mallan, on 12 February 2015 - 05:24 AM, said:

If they did nothing at all you are right. If they participated in fighting then they did Play the game. If everyone else did that, I'd have 12 kills with no assists. Is that a problem for you?

There is no point in arguing about it. ToS clearly states in a situation like that running off and hiding to drain the clock still counts as non participation. It's in place to stop 11 people playing hunt the troll SDR hiding in a corner.

[Dock Steward]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

I skimmed this thread and on the first 5 pages no one quoted the ToS which states>



running back to base and hiding even if not powered down when it's 11-3 is a violation.

The language there could probably be clearer, but I'm pretty sure that was meant as a response to farmers who were loading in without armor, not damaged players who return to base, but, again, the language could be clearer.

[Bigbacon]

if the dude is shut down in a corner all round, the all bets are off.

If the guy actively fighting and shutting down to try to get an advantage then don't report them.

Sadly the easiest fix for this is for PGI to just make it so when you leave the match, you always get all your awards and assists...why is that so hard to accomplish? Let people fight till they die and move on to another round.

[Ghogiel]

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 05:45 AM, said:

The language there could probably be clearer, but I'm pretty sure that was meant as a response to farmers who were loading in without armor, not damaged players who return to base, but, again, the language could be clearer.

We went through all this when skirmish mode was put it. Without anyway to end the match people were complaining about SDR trolls tagging a few mechs then griefing the team by hiding in some corner, of course this was when IGP was in charge, but afaik the player has to be actively engaging, running the clock out when it's 11-0 to waste time is counted as griefing and non participation

Edited by Ghogiel, 12 February 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[Dock Steward]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

We went through all this when skirmish mode was put it. Without anyway to end the match people were complaining about SDR trolls tagging a few mechs then griefing the team by hiding in some corner, of course this was when IGP was in charge, but afaik the player has to be activingly engaging, running the clock out when it's 11-0 to waste time is counted as griefing and non participation

Sure, but returning to the base turrets when you're damaged and outnumbered is completely different...

[Ghogiel]

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

Sure, but returning to the base turrets when you're damaged and outnumbered is completely different...

Not if it's 11-0 with no armor it doesn't count as tactical base defense.

[Dock Steward]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Not if it's 11-0 with no armor it doesn't count as tactical base defense.

Again, I really don't think that's what that line you bolded is referring to. I do concede the language is vague, though...

[Ghogiel]

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 06:04 AM, said:

Again, I really don't think that's what that line you bolded is referring to. I do concede the language is vague, though...

if someone is trying to drag the game out it's griefing. They have to be actively engaging. running away to hide in base to drag the match out is basically griefing. In assault no one really gets reported for that because most of the players are probably heading to base to cap it out instead of hunting the troll all over the map, and will find them and kill him anyway.

Edited by Ghogiel, 12 February 2015 - 06:09 AM.

[Dock Steward]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 06:09 AM, said:

if someone is trying to drag the game out it's griefing. They have to be actively engaging. running away to hide in base to drag the match out is basically griefing.

No, it isn't. It's tactics. Let the turrets do some work for you, it's why they're there. "Hiding" in an armed base is fundamentally different than hiding in a cave and shutting down.

[SethAbercromby]

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 06:00 AM, said:

Not if it's 11-0 with no armor it doesn't count as tactical base defense.

If you retreat to base in order to give one last fight with the help of the turrets, that is not non-participation in my opinion. Using the turrts for additive fire, you can still manage to take out 1 or 2 guys, even in a light (in one match, we were 3 kills up on a single light and our reamaining team just charged in blindly, getting torn apart, turning it into a loss).

And heck, even running away to just annoy them with a wild goose chase is still an act of participation, just not the kind you like.