717 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

To those who complain about their time being wasted:

1. If you're already dead you can exit match and drop in another mech...you don't have another mech? Get one, stop complaining.

2. You're violating ToS and can be banned by reporting an actively participating player's position to the enemy. You're ruining their experience in the game.

3. You're just a general ****** that needs to uninstall if you think you're the center of the game and everyone needs to 'hurry up and die so I can re-drop in this mech'.

[Alaskan Nobody]

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

How so ever does PGI determine if some TKed accidently or not? Apparently they've been operating using telepathy all this time.

Number of reports + watching replays of the matches (which is why they usually ask for the precise time)

A lot of the TKers I run into actually feel the need to BRAG about it during the matches.

[RG Notch]

Shar Wolf, on 12 February 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Number of reports + watching replays of the matches (which is why they usually ask for the precise time)

A lot of the TKers I run into actually feel the need to BRAG about it during the matches.

OMG so you're saying they look at the context of events and make a decision based on that? I know this is a big stretch, but couldn't they use the same techniques to investigate why people are powering down and hiding? It's almost like this would work in lieu of telepathy.

[Alaskan Nobody]

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 03:16 PM, said:

I know this is a big stretch, but couldn't they use the same techniques to investigate why people are powering down and hiding?

They have already REPEATEDLY made statements about that.

Guess what!
So long as the person has engaged the enemy AT ALL....
They are not breaking the rules by doing so.


Shocking isn't it?
What you learn when you read the entirety of what the moderators and developers have said.

[PurpleNinja]

MauttyKoray, on 12 February 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

To those who complain about their time being wasted:

Whenever someone brings up the "time wasted" theory, I find a nice place to park and answer something like: sure, you're saving thousands of lives playing video games.

[RG Notch]

Shar Wolf, on 12 February 2015 - 03:17 PM, said:

They have already REPEATEDLY made statements about that.

Guess what!
So long as the person has engaged the enemy AT ALL....
They are not breaking the rules by doing so.


Shocking isn't it?
What you learn when you read the entirety of what the moderators and developers have said.

So what the moderator said in the e mail quoted in this thread doesn't apply? You might want to read the entirety of this thread.

[Alaskan Nobody]

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

You might want to read the entirety of this thread.

I simply shared what the official stance was and has been made several times by Russ himself.

You know?
The one who makes the final decisions for the whole company?

The moderators are free to have their opinions - and if I were you I would be praying the next time you report someone for not playing the way YOU want them to, you get that mod.

Rather than continuing YET AGAIN to ***** and troll about it.

[RG Notch]

Shar Wolf, on 12 February 2015 - 03:23 PM, said:

I simply shared what the official stance was and has been made several times by Russ himself.

You know?
The one who makes the final decisions for the whole company?

The moderators are free to have their opinions - and if I were you I would be praying the next time you report someone for not playing the way YOU want them to, you get that mod.

Rather than continuing YET AGAIN to ***** and troll about it.

Awww someone got mad that he was shown up for not reading the entirety of a discussion and is all salty. See this discussion wouldn't be needed if PGI clearly stated what the rules are with a sticky post to clear the air. Instead we have arbitrary enforcement and people arguing over which statement by PGI is the correct one. Well support and moderation aren't money makers so they are not PGI priorities. All I want is for people to actually play and not shut down and hide in order to protect their KDR in skirmish matches. If that's forcing people to play the way I want so be it. It's apparently the way PGI support wants people to play too.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Well now Shar, they don't actually replay the match, they go over the logs, which records everything from facing, torso twist, what you have targeted, what's in your LoS, what's NOT in your LoS, etc, and so forth. It's close to a replay but has a lot more information that really makes things clearer.

And Shar, Support will tell you directly, just email them and ask. RG did, he even posted the email in this thread. Primus of ComStar, also copied into this thread, was also clear about this situation as well. You can keep telling us what you think the rules are, WE went to the people running the game and got it directly from them, it's not our opinion.

Some of you are still trying to make it out that we're trying to force people to play OUR way, we're not, we're trying to make people follow the same rules we follow, that's all. We had questions on a few things, so we went directly to the source and got answers. You don't like those answers and keep telling us it's OUR opinion, even when the actual responses from PGI are posted. I'm not exactly sure why you are doing this, but honestly, it doesn't matter. The rules are what they are, break em, get reported and deal with the consequences. And just because YOU don't feel you are breaking the rules doesn't mean you aren't, nor does our reporting you for breaking them mean we're forcing you to play by our rules, we didn't make them, we don't enforce them, we just report the folks who do, AS REQUESTED BY THE POWERS THAT BE.

[Alaskan Nobody]

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 03:29 PM, said:

Awww someone got mad that he was shown up for not reading the entirety...

Awww someone is still upset because the official PGI stance still does not agree with his.

Time to grow up Raging Gut.

Or do you need yet another 30 posts from Russ saying you are wrong before you are finally going to admit it?

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 February 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

And Shar, Support will tell you directly...

I have thank you.

Just got done dealing with a TKer in fact.
Thank you for clarifying more on how they do it - but for those not capable of reading what others have been saying for more than 3 years now - I thought I would simplify it some.

After all, you do not teach kindergarteners about algebra.

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 February 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

Some of you are still trying to make it out that we're trying to force people to play OUR way, we're not, we're trying to make people follow the same rules we follow, that's all.

The difference being?

ESPECIALLY when the head of the company that is making the game you are playing says those rules are not enforced as part of the game?

IE: they are YOUR rules?
Not the games?

And has, in fact, said so many many many times already?

OH!
WAIT!
They are YOUR rules!
So they are OBVIOUSLY better!

Nevermind then!

You have convinced me!

We should all ignore everything Russ has said that does not agree with your opinons!

GOTCHA.

I'm out!

Best of luck Trollpeeps!

[Kristov Kerensky]

Shar, please show me the quotes from Russ on this if you would, I can't find them myself, guess my search fu isn't as strong as yours. I've listened to every town hall, and I've done a search of the transcripts, because I didn't remember him ever mentioning this subject, but I could have missed it, still can't find anything from him on the subject.

So please, show me his statements on this subject if you would sir.

[Ghogiel]

I think Russ might have said something to that effect back before Skirmish was put in the game. It has since been clarified via the ToS because of the spate of SDR troll mechs hiding that followed shortly there after.

Just ask Russ again I suppose to put the ToS dispute to bed since people think Russ is dealing with support emails and not the CSRs who have clarified the stance.

[RG Notch]

Shar Wolf, on 12 February 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

Awww someone is still upset because the official PGI stance still does not agree with his.

Time to grow up Raging Gut.

Or do you need yet another 30 posts from Russ saying you are wrong before you are finally going to admit it?


I have thank you.

Just got done dealing with a TKer in fact.
Thank you for clarifying more on how they do it - but for those not capable of reading what others have been saying for more than 3 years now - I thought I would simplify it some.

After all, you do not teach kindergarteners about algebra.


The difference being?

ESPECIALLY when the head of the company that is making the game you are playing says those rules are not enforced as part of the game?

IE: they are YOUR rules?
Not the games?

And has, in fact, said so many many many times already?

OH!
WAIT!
They are YOUR rules!
So they are OBVIOUSLY better!

Nevermind then!

You have convinced me!

We should all ignore everything Russ has said that does not agree with your opinons!

GOTCHA.

I'm out!

Best of luck Trollpeeps!

Awww still salty that the e mail from support quoted in this very thread agrees precisely with my stance on the issue. So you can say whatever you want about what Russ supposedly said in the past. A PGI employee just said that it is a reportable offense to power down and hide to protect KDR in skirmish. So maybe the president should talk to his employees, then again he isn't much for talking to us unless it's on twitter, maybe the CSR people aren't on Twitter.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"PGI employee just said that it is a reportable offense to power down and hide to protect KDR in skirmish"

So what? We all agree that it is. What's at issue is whether

a ) the last guy standing is allowed to play the game to its completion using the tactics he wants
b ) or if its okay to grief him into surrendering so a few selfish jerks can get back to their grind

Most people agree that as long as he is trying to play, leave him alone. Even PGI agrees.

And ya know, for people who claim that "wasting everyone's time" is such a high crime, you guys sure have wasted a lot of other people's time dealing with this nonsense.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 February 2015 - 04:52 PM.

[RG Notch]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 February 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

"PGI employee just said that it is a reportable offense to power down and hide to protect KDR in skirmish"

So what? We all agree that it is. What's at issue is whether

a ) the last guy standing is allowed to play the game to its completion using the tactics he wants
b ) or if its okay to grief him into surrendering so a few selfish jerks can get back to their grind

Most people agree that as long as he is trying to play, leave him alone. Even PGI agrees.

And ya know, for people who claim that "wasting everyone's time" is such a high crime, you guys sure have wasted a lot of other people's time dealing with this nonsense.

Some people clearly disagree. Some people are stating that one can do 1 pt of damage and then power down and hide to protect their KDR and it should not be reportable. They in fact claim that this is PGI's stance on the issue. The only people really wasting time are the ones who refuse to acknowledge that a PGI employee working in support when directly asked the question responded that it is a reportable offense to power down and hide to protect one's KDR. People can make their parade of horribles to try to spin this and bring up all kinds of unrelated clap trap, but it doesn't change this fact. Maybe they can get a different CSR to reply differently, but until then this would seem to be PGI's official stance. PGI can fix all this with a simple announcement and stickied thread, or they can let this fester as it doesn't make them real money either way I think they will just let it fester.
So for those stating that the e mail from the CSR isn't the official policy, prove it. not with a post from Russ from before skirmish, but with a current reply after he is shown what his own CSR said. As to the other things brought up, that's for others to settle. All I am concerned with is the official stance from PGI regarding whether it is acceptable to report players for powering down and hiding to protect their KDR in skirmish. This thread has the current answer as far as I am concerned. If PGI doesn't agree they can post here and clarify.

[pyrocomp]

Noone in this thread have asked main question: why that player shutted down his mech in a back alley. The only assumed reason is that he/she protects his/her K/D (then request PGI to remove that f***ng counter from view like they do not show elo).

And what if there are more reasons? Kids, pets, phone calls, friends? Just simple nerves of a new player? Really, after only 100 or so matches to be LMS in a 9-11 situation or worse 11-11 is a stress not easily taken, sometimes you need a a minute to calm your pulse and clear thoughts. Will you, repoters and oh-so-busy-playing-online-men deny people real life issues and some weakness, slow reaction and plain fear?

Such reaction and attitude is repulsive for casual players. And what will become of this game without them you presently can see in CW. A good example of what all those 'noobs', 'newbs' and 'pugs' really mean to this game. As stated in al those many times cited CoC etc, there is a spirit of the game (and it is still a game) and rules are just guide lines for others. Make stress not on parts 'shutting down = non-participation, hence forbidden', but on previous part 'Persistent' which is surrounded by rules with 'Wishfully or repeatedly' (some thoughts on spirit of those rules).

And, if not shooting at the enemy is breaking of rules of CoC, then I breake them on regular basis when I literally have no opportunity to shoot at enemy (too slow in DWF to get there on some maps)? Is that not participation in core mechanics of the game? If I refuse to NASCAR (which is core mechanic of this game spiritialy) will this, after any idling will be a treason, considered a blasphemy? This is a game in which you a willingly an repeatedly participate and spend time. Two minutes matchmaking is also a breaking of core mechanics and griefing on PGI part?

Edited by pyrocomp, 12 February 2015 - 05:08 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"All I am concerned with is the official stance from PGI regarding whether it is acceptable to report players for powering down and hiding to protect their KDR in skirmish"

That's easy. It is not acceptable to report players for things they aren't doing. Something about bearing false witness. If you need PGI to clarify that for you, you are wasting everyone's time.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 12 February 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[pyrocomp]

Fenrisulvyn, on 12 February 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

"All I am concerned with is the official stance from PGI regarding whether it is acceptable to report players for powering down and hiding to protect their KDR in skirmish"

That's easy. It is not acceptable to report players for things they aren't doing. Something about bearing false witness. If you need PGI to clarify that for you, you are wasting everyone's time.

Yep. Crime of action and crime of intent. And intent is yet to be proved.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I guess these guys really don't believe what PGI's official stance is, whatever, shown proof and refuse it out of hand, can't argue with that logic.

[Kjudoon]

Well, I just shared this new direction by PGI with some friends. There's 4 more people who have said 'no' to skirmish.

Good luck with your matches as you depopulate.

Oh, because I said I'd share.... according to the attitude most anti-hiders have, the last 5 minutes of this match would have been a violation of their policy because I spent 4 of them avoiding combat.

Edited by Kjudoon, 12 February 2015 - 06:07 PM.