717 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

Where's all the folks who were so sure that it wasn't ever reportable? Hello? Where's the folks saying you could do 1 damage and then shut down and it not be reportable? Hello?

I don't think anybody ever claimed "do 1 damage and then shut down" is fine.

And I still have to find that "Skirmish-only" reference though.

RG Notch, on 12 February 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

Now if PGI would just make an announcement and sticky it so we don't have to hear people spout nonsense it would be great.

That is not enough. It has to be in clear and concise language.

[Mystere]

DavidHurricane, on 12 February 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

No, you can poke at them from a distance and guerrilla war them. But you can't just run around and hit them 3 times in 7 minutes. It has to be some form of actively engaging them.

If he only found 3 opportunities in 7 minutes (e.g. new player), why not?

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

Go to training grounds if you want to explore the map.

As the old saying goes, "Practice makes perfect." I can't really say if I am well hidden until the people looking for me actually fail to find me.

DavidHurricane, on 12 February 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

So if you expended all your ammo and are nearly cored, just go and die until the rules are clarified. It makes life easier for all of us.

Who said I have to make it easy for anyone?

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 09:15 AM, said:

Hi there!

Thank you for your feedback and our apologies we could not reach your earlier. If the player B is still actively playing it is not considered non-participation.
For us powering down your mech for the purpose of letting the clock run out and maintaining your K/D ratio does not fall within the intended spirit of the shutdown mechanic, and is considered an act of non-participation.
Regards

GM_Patience
Piranha Games

Considering many do it not to preserved their KDR, but to make you earn that last kill, then they are all perfectly fine.

Ghogiel, on 12 February 2015 - 09:23 AM, said:

We don't determine anything. Our job is to not shutdown and hide and to report player that do. Support sorts it out.

I'm glad support does that and not the players. It's one reason I am still around.

PurpleNinja, on 12 February 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

I still don't get it. Why people get so mad just because someone is playing a game?

Because their early death has shortened their epeen?

Dock Steward, on 12 February 2015 - 02:26 PM, said:

I just wish they didn't feel the need for wishy-washy language and just flat out said what the rules are.

And therein lies the problem responsible for numerous epic threads on this very same topic.


(Nothing to more come ... I promise. )

Edited by Mystere, 13 February 2015 - 01:52 PM.

[Kensaisama]

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

If he only found 3 opportunities in 7 minutes (e.g. new player), why not?




As the old saying goes, "Practice makes perfect." I can't really say if I am well hidden until the people looking for me actually fail to find me.



Who said I have to make it easy for anyone?


(More to come ... )

I might have to change my sig to say "Mystere, a shot of sanity" LOL

[990Dreams]

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

If he only found 3 opportunities in 7 minutes (e.g. new player), why not?


Who said I have to make it easy for anyone?

I clarified both of these in other posts. Read around and see.

[That Dawg]

We rolled the other team. Eleven of them.
Last one disconnected it seemed well after the start.
Game had NINE minutes left.
We were all alive. I'm in a locust, with bap and modules extending range of sensors. (only relevant cause I circled the map almost three times searching for the shutdown.
Clearly, this person did not disconnect while playing, did not suffer catastrophic computer failure, never connected in the first place. Strategically found a spot, shutdown, disconnected to say FU for the win

Two other lights and I (and the rest of the team) covered all three spawn points...twice or more.
Then started skirting the edges of the map (Manifold) Then interior. Started shooting "dead" mechs..
Nine minutes...then five...then two...the other team never said a peep.
No idea if they all left, or were sitting in this disco's pit giggling like preschoolers.

we even commented not to share globally, all our chat (with limited "where is it") were on team coms so as not to give anyone any joy.
That was the worse example yet. Never found the mech either.
Hella good hiding spot........cause thats exactly what it was. A hiding spot.

Quote

hide




verb

hid hid·den or hid·ing


Definition of HIDE

transitive verb


1a : to put out of sight : secrete
b : to conceal for shelter or protection : shield

2

: to keep secret <hide the truth>

3

: to screen from or as if from view : obscure

4

: to turn (the eyes or face) away in shame or anger

intransitive verb
1

: to remain out of sight —often used with out

2

: to seek protection or evade responsibility

hid·er noun

yeah, I'd say he was a hider, hiding, being well hidden..clinically..definitively...


there really should be a mechanism in place to keep those responsible players from enduring the lesser ones.
The person was hiding. Found a spot, shutdown, disconnected. What part of gameplay does that NOT fall under?

Mystere, on 13 February 2015 - 12:28 PM, said:

And I still have to find that "Skirmish-only" reference though.




That is not enough. It has to be in clear and concise language.

uhm...it is.

I mean, at least for many of those who've bothered to read the rules. And stuff....

[MechWarrior3671771]

"No, you can poke at them from a distance and guerrilla war them. But you can't just run around and hit them 3 times in 7 minutes. It has to be some form of actively engaging them."

<snort>

And this is where it leads. I need to check the forums and get David's permission on what tactics I can use.

Hey Dave, what if I hit them 4 times in 7 mins? Will you approve that?

Or how about I hit them twice each minute?

And can you please hurry up and approve because I'm kinda taking fire here....

Sheesh.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 16 February 2015 - 05:49 AM.

[Dock Steward]

That Dawg, on 16 February 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

uhm...it is.

I mean, at least for many of those who've bothered to read the rules. And stuff....

We've read the rules. We've quoted the rules. We understand the rules. You have illustrated a prime example of a situation in which the rules are clear. We're discussing the other, "grey-er" examples in which the rules aren't clear.

It's a +30 page thread, yeah, I know, but if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing and see what people are talking about, maybe don't jump in...and stuff...

[MechWarrior3671771]

Dave? You there? I need weapons release permission. Clear me hot please. Taking fire.

Want to fire and scoot and fire. S-4 is drafting a memo calling that "2 shots in 1 minute". Is that okay with you?

Dave?

[That Dawg]

Dock Steward, on 16 February 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

We've read the rules. We've quoted the rules. We understand the rules. You have illustrated a prime example of a situation in which the rules are clear. We're discussing the other, "grey-er" examples in which the rules aren't clear.

It's a +30 page thread, yeah, I know, but if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing and see what people are talking about, maybe don't jump in...and stuff...

Maybe STFU?
I've posted in this thread several times, didn't know I needed permission, from you, to add MORE thoughts, and an example without linking to my previous posts.

maybe dont be self important...and stuff...

[Dock Steward]

That Dawg, on 16 February 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

Maybe STFU?
I've posted in this thread several times, didn't know I needed permission, from you, to add MORE thoughts, and an example without linking to my previous posts.

maybe dont be self important...and stuff...

Nice. Internet brave, eh?

Well, if you've read the thread, then you really don't need me to tell you why your post adds nothing to the conversation.

[Kjudoon]

The TL:DR of this entire thread?

Don't play skirmish if you are smart and use tactics that keep you alive longer than the rest of your team, or the enemy wants to look for you.

[Creovex]

Kjudoon, on 16 February 2015 - 06:36 AM, said:

The TL:DR of this entire thread?

Don't play skirmish if you are smart and use tactics that keep you alive longer than the rest of your team, or the enemy wants to look for you.

Tactics is one thing. Being the last guy without a chance in hell of winning and shutdowing/hiding to save K/D is a total other story.

[PFC Carsten]

Ok, here are my 2+ cents on the topic

- If you're annoyed by the matter at hand: Uncheck Skirmish
- If you're annoyed by people "holding you hostage": Come to realize that you can disconnect and start a new match in another mech immediately. If you own only one, you can use trial mechs, so at most, they can only hold your mech hostage for a couple of minutes.
- If you're really really bothered by those people and love your mech too much to use another one, get a second, identical mech.

^^ there, most arguments in thread invalidated. ;-)


That said, I enjoy watching matches I participate in to the end preferrably with me still being part of the action. And I often try to encourage people hiding or shutting down to reconsider and put up a fight.

And the way I interpret Skirmish rules, the other teams primary objective is to destroy all enemy mechs. I can sympathize with everyone doing whatever they can (besides outright cheating) in order to prevent "the reds" from achieving that. If anything, PGI could opt to distribute bonuses for winning by achieving via primary objective and shorten those bonuses if a team wins "only" by secondary or tertiary objective.

P.S.:
- If you're annoyed by people disconnecting: Deal with it. It could very well be a coincidence. I've had my client crash me back to desktop multiple times over the last few days. It could even happen, after you hide and power down for a while, hoping to face only severly torn up opponents afterwards.

[Kjudoon]

Creovex, on 16 February 2015 - 06:48 AM, said:

Tactics is one thing. Being the last guy without a chance in hell of winning and shutdowing/hiding to save K/D is a total other story.

1. Saving KDR is a lie. It is a worthless stat and red herring by those who want to believe hiding is wrong because they're lazy.

2. Sometimes moral victories by making the enemy work to find you is the only way to gain satisfaction from a match after the match has been sucked dry by brawltardery and rambotitis.

Edited by Kjudoon, 16 February 2015 - 07:15 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Being the last guy without a chance in hell of winning and shutdowing/hiding to save K/D is a total other story."

That's two things
1) being the last guy without a chance in hell of winning
2) shutdowning/hiding to save K/D

One is uncool, the other is not. Why do people insist on conflating the two?

I just saw a last man standing pull out a win at 4-1. Was pretty cool to watch.

[Duke Hector]

well for one its called tactics. if people can't learn to deal with the an enemy hiding then maybe they should either

A. do a better job at finding him
B. make the lights DO their job and actually scout

but no people these days in age moan and complain that time is being wasted to be more "efficient" then i have something to say to you.

if you want fast kills and only fast kills and don't have a little patience then i suggest 3 games of a similar type to you to this one. you should go play Quake, Unreal Tournament, or Cancer of Duty

so stop moaning and complaining about a person using tactics its a VERY valid part of this game and you are just going to have to learn to deal with it.....

also one more thing where does it say in PGI's TOS anywhere that prolonging the game by hiding is illegal? the first person to link that VERY text line to me shall be rewarded

Edited by Dan the Ice Man, 16 February 2015 - 07:20 AM.

[Mystere]

That Dawg, on 16 February 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

We rolled the other team. Eleven of them.
Last one disconnected it seemed well after the start.
Game had NINE minutes left.
We were all alive. I'm in a locust, with bap and modules extending range of sensors. (only relevant cause I circled the map almost three times searching for the shutdown.
Clearly, this person did not disconnect while playing, did not suffer catastrophic computer failure, never connected in the first place. Strategically found a spot, shutdown, disconnected to say FU for the win

Two other lights and I (and the rest of the team) covered all three spawn points...twice or more.
Then started skirting the edges of the map (Manifold) Then interior. Started shooting "dead" mechs..
Nine minutes...then five...then two...the other team never said a peep.
No idea if they all left, or were sitting in this disco's pit giggling like preschoolers.

we even commented not to share globally, all our chat (with limited "where is it") were on team coms so as not to give anyone any joy.
That was the worse example yet. Never found the mech either.
Hella good hiding spot........cause thats exactly what it was. A hiding spot.



yeah, I'd say he was a hider, hiding, being well hidden..clinically..definitively...


there really should be a mechanism in place to keep those responsible players from enduring the lesser ones.
The person was hiding. Found a spot, shutdown, disconnected. What part of gameplay does that NOT fall under?

Or he was stalking/shadowing you the entire time, with you none the wiser. As you said, you did not find him. So, how did you know what he was doing?

That Dawg, on 16 February 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

uhm...it is.

I mean, at least for many of those who've bothered to read the rules. And stuff....

31 pages here say the rules are not as clear as you claim they are.

[Jman5]

This thread is still going on?

1. Report location of people who are hiding or disconnected and have no intention of trying to win. Use teamchat to give him a chance to explain himself first.

2. Don't report location of people who are trying to win or tie no matter how far behind they are.

3. If you are the kind of person to do sneaky stuff like shut down and then power back up, use team chat when possible to prevent any misunderstanding.

4. Don't be a sore loser over some dumb pug drop by hiding with the intention of losing.

There isn't anything more to say. You're all just talking in circles around each other. If you don't like it, play a premade and bore your friends to death with your antics.

Edited by Jman5, 16 February 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Bloodweaver]

Jman5, on 16 February 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

This thread is still going on?

1. Report location of people who are hiding or disconnected and have no intention of trying to win. Use teamchat to give him a chance to explain himself first.

2. Don't report location of people who are trying to win or tie no matter how far behind they are.

3. If you are the kind of person to do sneaky stuff like shut down and then power back up, used team chat when possible to prevent any misunderstanding.

4. Don't be a sore loser over some dumb pug drop by hiding with the intention of losing.

There isn't anything more to say. You're all just talking in circles around each other. If you don't like it, play a premade and bore your friends to death with your antics.

You are wrong on point #1. Which invalidates most of the rest of what you say, too. Reporting your teammate's location is ALWAYS a violation of the rules, no matter what that teammate is doing or why. You can report his behavior to PGI, but giving out his location is not allowed. Period. Giving out the coordinates for a disconnected 'mech is fine, since there's no longer a player present.

[Jman5]

Bloodweaver, on 16 February 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

You are wrong on point #1. Which invalidates most of the rest of what you say, too. Reporting your teammate's location is ALWAYS a violation of the rules, no matter what that teammate is doing or why. You can report his behavior to PGI, but giving out his location is not allowed. Period. Giving out the coordinates for a disconnected 'mech is fine, since there's no longer a player present.

Nobody cares what you think the TOS says or how they should be enforced. What matters is how these rules are applied by PGI. Nobody gets in trouble for it because its common sense that when some loser shuts down with no intention of winning or tying he should get called out so the game will end.

You can tell me I'm breaking the rules until you're blue in the face. The moment you stop trying to play to win or at least tie, is the moment you have lost any expectation of your team keeping quiet.

I don't know why I'm bothering. Keep sputtering for another 30 pages guys. I'm sure it will change everything.