717 replies to this topic

[Bloodweaver]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 February 2015 - 02:12 AM, said:

If said Teammate does not reply to <TEAM>chat and hasn't moved since the drop. I will give teh location of the DC. If the player responds, I wish him/her luck and sit back and wait.

You are conflating someone who simply doesn't reply to you as being disconnected, which they're not. So long as they have a ping, they are not "the DC," and giving away their location is against the rules.

As for Mechwarrior Buddah's image, first of all, we don't even see what his exact question was - only the response. Second, he refuses to acknowledge anything but what he already imagines to see in it. And third, it doesn't even really matter what is said in the message, since the ToS already answers the question of whether or not team treason is OK. Even if he did actually ask support "is it OK to give out a teammate's coordinates if they're still connected," all he did was waste the time for the person who felt obligated to answer him. It's a pointless question, and it's akin to going to a restaurant, seeing lasagna bolognese on the menu, and then asking the waiter if they have pasta.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 18 February 2015 - 04:24 PM.

[Vassa]

What is so annoying about the hiding is the fact that the Kill-Death ratio is a worthless stat. The "DC" problem renders the numbers meaningless.


A high K/D ratio isn't a sign of a good pilot, it's a sign of a selfishly absent one.

Edited by Vassa, 18 February 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Vassa, I think the "hiding shutdown to protect your K/D ratio" is false argument.

1) There is no way to be sure a pilot intends to hide shutdown till end of match until AFTER the match ends. So people using that as justifying Team Treason before the match ends are being dishonest. If "protecting K/D ratios" was what this was really all about, they would wait till after the match to be sure, and then report him.

2) Been playing 6 weeks now. Have never seen anyone shutdown and hide till match end, even on Conquest. What I HAVE seen is about a dozen instances of Team Treason because they didn't want to let the last guy standing draw the game out.

[Vassa]

Fenrisulvyn, on 18 February 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Vassa, I think the "hiding shutdown to protect your K/D ratio" is false argument.

1) There is no way to be sure a pilot intends to hide shutdown till end of match until AFTER the match ends. So people using that as justifying Team Treason before the match ends are being dishonest. If "protecting K/D ratios" was what this was really all about, they would wait till after the match to be sure, and then report him.

2) Been playing 6 weeks now. Have never seen anyone shutdown and hide till match end, even on Conquest. What I HAVE seen is about a dozen instances of Team Treason because they didn't want to let the last guy standing draw the game out.

Inherent in the "Skirmish" is "fight to the death". A pilot who does not want to fight to the death can disable the skirmish option.
Avoiding the enemy in a 'fight to the death' is violating the agreement everybody made to fight to the death when they pushed "PLAY".

It is not all that difficult to tell the difference between a pilot looking for advantage and one running away. Parking and shutting down or just crawling under a rock is a dead giveaway to the pilot's intentions.

Edited by Vassa, 18 February 2015 - 06:25 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Fenris, I fully admit to hiding after the team gets stomped and I'm the sole survivor. I want to be the hardest most annoying kill of the game. It happens maybe... MAYBE 5% of all skirmish matches I end up in, and trust me, my unit knows to not include me if they are skirmish dropping because I will make them wait too and then leave group till skirmish is removed.

But our unit is loaded with great guys, so this happens rarely and by accident only. More than a few of them quit playing skirmish because of this "team treason is acceptable if I am bored or being lazy" entitlement mentality.

Oh well... this thread has run its course I think.

[Baelfire]

Vassa, on 18 February 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

Inherent in the "Skirmish" is "fight to the death". A pilot who does not want to fight to the death can disable the skirmish option.
Avoiding the enemy in a 'fight to the death' is violating the agreement everybody made to fight to the death when they pushed "PLAY".

Ironically "skirmish" means the exact opposite of "fight to death". a skirmish is a short fight between small forces with the intension to test the enemies strengh, nothing more and nothing less.

There are only 2 rules you can read while the game is loading and none of them states that i have to fight to the death. One of the rules even specifies what happens if people don't fight to the death: the team with more kills wins after 15 minutes. If you don't like that, then YOU are the one who should disable skirmish.

That said, i have already disabled the skirmish mode to avoid those situations a long time ago. Not because i want the protect my KDR, but because i hate to die a meaningless death. Dying while leading a charge or protecting our flank is fine for me, but suiciding is not. And unlike other people i do not try to force my personal preference upon someone else.

Edited by Baelfire, 18 February 2015 - 08:45 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Why even report them when the problem will be fixed after UI 2.0?


er....

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 18 February 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[Kjudoon]

Remove the ability to talk to the other team, treason goes away. Then trolls can't ruin other player experience.

[Icebergdx]

TWIAFU, on 01 February 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

It is if your able to read.

Exploiting / Griefing / Non-Participation
Our definition of Exploiting / Griefing includes:

• Wilfully or repeatedly destroying Teammate or Lancemate 'Mechs.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly self-destructing one's 'Mech by Overheating or going Out-of-Bounds
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly disconnecting during a match.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly spamming in-game chat.
  
• Persistent non-participation in core game mechanics.
  
• Wilfully or repeatedly taking advantage of an issue for personal gain.

This was a quote from Page 2 of this thread, and yet there are idiots on here that are still arguing that people who run off, hide, shut down and waste people's time are not violating the rules. This was a definition that came out from PGI people. GET A CLUE!!!! This post was from Feb 2, it is now Feb 18. OVER 2 WEEKS AND 31 PAGES OF PEOPLE SHOWING THEY ARE TOO DUMB TO READ AND COMPREHEND PART OF THE CONDUCT OF THE GAME. ENOUGH ALL READY!!!!!

Edited by Icebergdx, 18 February 2015 - 09:17 PM.

[Slepnir]

thanks for the quote ice, to bad it has nothing to do with the topic.

Team treason is the subject at hand and it is not allowed in the rules under any circumstances, not when you get bored, not when you want the match to end, not when you disaprove of the last players tactics. IT IS GRIEFING AND IS NOT PERMITTED!

If you feel another rule was violated, screen cap it and file a report ticket at the end of the match, otherwise dead players need to shut up or disconnect and drop in a different mech they own or even one of the dozen or so trial mechs that are provided for your benefit.

[Mystere]

Kjudoon, on 18 February 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

Remove the ability to talk to the other team, treason goes away. Then trolls can't ruin other player experience.

But I like taunting the other team.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bloodweaver, on 17 February 2015 - 02:11 PM, said:

You are conflating someone who simply doesn't reply to you as being disconnected, which they're not. So long as they have a ping, they are not "the DC," and giving away their location is against the rules.

As for Mechwarrior Buddah's image, first of all, we don't even see what his exact question was - only the response. Second, he refuses to acknowledge anything but what he already imagines to see in it. And third, it doesn't even really matter what is said in the message, since the ToS already answers the question of whether or not team treason is OK. Even if he did actually ask support "is it OK to give out a teammate's coordinates if they're still connected," all he did was waste the time for the person who felt obligated to answer him. It's a pointless question, and it's akin to going to a restaurant, seeing lasagna bolognese on the menu, and then asking the waiter if they have pasta.

And? If A player isn't responding to team chat As far as I know they are DC. I am giving them a chance to say they are in the game. If I am met with silence... I will continue to assume they are DC, and therefore will give teh location. PGI has every right to do whatever they feel is just.

Unlike many here, I take responsibility for what I do.

[Kjudoon]

And what if you give them up and suddenly they rejoin only to find themselves half killed because of that when they had a chance?


That is the catch now that we can rejoin

[Joseph Mallan]

Kjudoon, on 19 February 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

And what if you give them up and suddenly they rejoin only to find themselves half killed because of that when they had a chance?


That is the catch now that we can rejoin

Yes it is. And I am willing to face teh consequences if that happens.

[Mudhutwarrior]

It all comes down to the fact that team treason of any sort leads to everyman for himself in matches. If you can not defend what you consider bad behavior (last man standing) then you cannot defend your team, Team treason does not teach anyone a lesson instead it destroys trust. When I drop I need to trust my teammates to defend me always. Knowing that one or several would.could and probably will give my location leads my behavior to think of myself above others. It kills over time thinking like that.
Sure there are exceptions but as a rule most survivors tend to try and figure a ways to even the score or increase their damage count. Your not mind readers and narrow mindedness kills creativity in others. A detriment to team play.

Change the way you think because justifying team treason is a path for losers. Its my team and every teammamte deserves a chance to get his lick in. Its not about your time and dropping in a another match. Its about the fight no matter how it goes down. Your dead so the decision on how to fight is not up to you.

[Kjudoon]

This thread... so addicting.

[Spawnsalot]

Eugh is this thread *still* going on?

Team treason while a player is still connected is bad and can get you reported - don't do it.
While they're disconnected, not so much. (I know I wouldn't be upset if someone gave my location away if I crashed.)

Just send a support ticket with the players name, time of day, game mode and map with a quick description to support@mwomercs.com. They have access to the match metrics to make a proper judgement.

And if the player happens to be on the receiving end of a punishment from PGI then maybe they should rethink the way they play.

It really is as simple as that.

[Raggedyman]

Spawnsalot, on 19 February 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Eugh is this thread *still* going on?

Yup, and it's even got it's own Tribute Act

[Raggedyman]

And there is another one here. So I've posted this in the Suggestions forum to try and draw attention to a Skirmish rules change to help out the ADHD afflicted Skirmishers get along to their next round (without Team Treasoning, bullying, or mis-reporting people).

Thoughts, tweaks and "yes please" type noises most welcome on that thread.

Explanations on why your time is more important than anyone elses, how you are psychically linked to each players motivations, and why your preferred playing style is the one, pure, approach to MWO that will conquer all other, lesser, playing styles for 1000 years can continue to be posted on here.

Edited by Raggedyman, 19 February 2015 - 05:06 AM.

[Bloodweaver]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 February 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

And? If A player isn't responding to team chat As far as I know they are DC. I am giving them a chance to say they are in the game. If I am met with silence... I will continue to assume they are DC, and therefore will give teh location. PGI has every right to do whatever they feel is just.

Unlike many here, I take responsibility for what I do.

Uh, no. So long as they have a ping, then as far as you know, they are NOT a DC. Zero ping is disconnected, any ping above that is still connected. Whether actively disguising themselves from enemy patrols, opening the door to let their dog out, or just throwing the game to preserve KDR (an act for which, again, there is almost no evidence) they are still connected and it is still against ToS to divulge their position.

Your assumptions are not something other players need to prove themselves against, because you are just another player. Not a gamemaster, not a developer, not a moderator - other players do not need to explain themselves to you, because you are not above them, and have no power over what they do for their allotted fifteen minutes. You only control what you do, and the fact of the matter is that you made an agreement to abide by certain rules when you downloaded and installed the game. One of those rules is to not give out a connected teammate's position to the enemy team. What you are trying to justify now is, in short, "I don't care what I signed, I'm going to do what I want even if it ruins other people's game, and the only way I won't is if they prove themselves worthy to me." Well, pardon my French, but **** that.

When you click the button that says "Play," you should have every expectation of your 'mech being kept for fifteen minutes, because that's how the gamemodes work. A match ending before that, is a BONUS, it is not a RIGHT to which you are entitled. If you died before that fifteen minutes, and other people are still alive, they are still playing, and get to do so how they want, up to and including hiding, since that is part of the game mechanics, put into the game intentionally. You, on the other hand - your game is OVER.

Kjudoon, on 19 February 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

And what if you give them up and suddenly they rejoin only to find themselves half killed because of that when they had a chance?

That is the catch now that we can rejoin

Not really a catch. There's nothing wrong with giving out the position of someone who's disconnected, at least not once everyone else is dead(doing it at the very beginning of a match would be kind of ******, though). The fact you can rejoin now, is cool and all, but it's not something we should count on. It's a last-resort method of dealing with a problem you didn't cause yourself, not an innate part of the game. Again, this all only applies to people who are actually DISCONNECTED, not those who are merely committing the grave crime of standing still.

Mudhutwarrior, on 19 February 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

Change the way you think because justifying team treason is a path for losers. Its my team and every teammamte deserves a chance to get his lick in. Its not about your time and dropping in a another match. Its about the fight no matter how it goes down. Your dead so the decision on how to fight is not up to you.

^This times a million.

Edited by Bloodweaver, 19 February 2015 - 06:36 AM.