147 replies to this topic

[Brody319]

Mcgral18, on 04 February 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

But it adds another weapon. Another 10 potential damage to an alpha, which is also high mounted.

It gives it a purpose over the Cute Fox, being able to carry more guns. It's also already modelled.

I would put a Large laser in the head, 2 medium pulse lasers in the STs and 2 medium lasers in the arms.
but that damn flamer!

[Deathlike]

The overhead Flamer is much higher than the rest of the weapons on it.

If you want Adders to be a laser unicorn and not actually be strictly a unicorn, it has to be changed.

[Soy]

**** that CAP. Hard, fast, and continuously.

[NextGame]

TELEFORCE, on 04 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

Some people act like the fixed flamer on the Adder is game-breaking. Seriously guys, it just weighs 0.5 tons and takes up one slot. The chassis has near maximum armor stock and can carry 16 tons of weapons and equipment at good speed (I think anything above 80 kph is good speed). Not to mention that the 'mech is quite short and packing Clan firepower. I'd rather see the flamer revamped before fixed equipment is unlocked.

The active probe on the Mist Lynx isn't a liability either. At close range, it counters ECM, and it helps make the 'mech even more effective at spotting targets.

Crit slots are important in clan mechs, every bit of tonnage and crit slot that's allocated to something you don't need is game breaking for that mech.

Adders and especially mist lynx are ******* terrible already, and most of it is due to locked equipment. Let people customise these mechs in the same manner as their inner sphere counterparts and you might get something playable out of them.

I find that clan mechs on the whole run waaaaayyyy too hot, and would generally be in line with IS mechs If we could ditch the 3 billion jump jets, the flamer and the locked in active probes just for a few heat sinks at least.

Edited by NextGame, 05 February 2015 - 01:40 AM.

[Lily from animove]

TELEFORCE, on 04 February 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

Some people act like the fixed flamer on the Adder is game-breaking. Seriously guys, it just weighs 0.5 tons and takes up one slot. The chassis has near maximum armor stock and can carry 16 tons of weapons and equipment at good speed (I think anything above 80 kph is good speed). Not to mention that the 'mech is quite short and packing Clan firepower. I'd rather see the flamer revamped before fixed equipment is unlocked.

The active probe on the Mist Lynx isn't a liability either. At close range, it counters ECM, and it helps make the 'mech even more effective at spotting targets.

maybe, maybe not, imagine a CERLL or a tag in that position. The high location of that E hardpoint is what people wanna use, not thosse 0.5t. Or another CERML or CERSL is alos makign quite a difference in its lapha abilities. The costs of opportunaty that the blocked hardpoint of the flamer means is what it really is about.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 February 2015 - 01:58 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Stefka Kerensky, on 04 February 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

Because of the "always the same" BT principle.
Weapon long range, high dmg...BUT hot.
Weapon high dmg, no heat....BUT heavy.
Weapon few weight, few heat, BUT short range and few dmg.
And so on.

I think it's the same for chassis: Omnipods are comfortable, BUT something must be locked

A single flamer. A ECM. I can understand BUT the 9 additional Double Sinks of the Warhawk was the poster child of stupid thinking.

[TELEFORCE]

Now I wonder: If the flamer on the Adder were low-mounted as depicted in some other drawings in BattleTech fiction, instead of high-mounted like the MWO devs elected, would there be as much fuss over it?

In addition, if lasers weren't the go-to weapon for the Clans at this point because of the performance of other Clan weapons, especially ballistics, would that change anything?

Edited by TELEFORCE, 05 February 2015 - 02:54 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

TELEFORCE, on 05 February 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

Now I wonder: If the flamer on the Adder were low-mounted as depicted in some other drawings in BattleTech fiction, instead of high-mounted like the MWO devs elected, would there be as much fuss over it?

In addition, if lasers weren't the go-to weapon for the Clans at this point because of the performance of other Clan weapons, especially ballistics, would that change anything?

Ive actually been trying to find Adder Pictures where the Flamer is being used,
in every picture ive seen, its always been mounted in the top where it is in MWO,


if anyone has seen a picture of the Flamer in use,
in another location on the Adder, please post it,
thank you

[F4T 4L]

Mcgral18, on 04 February 2015 - 08:00 PM, said:

It gives it a purpose over the Cute Fox, being able to carry more guns. It's also already modelled.

Oooh really? I didn't know that. Do you have a pic?

[Mcgral18]

F4T 4L, on 05 February 2015 - 06:26 AM, said:

Oooh really? I didn't know that. Do you have a pic?

There's also a PPC...but I think that's just a result of how they are modelled. They sometimes don't add the weapon if it can't fit (such as LB20x in most STs) while othertimes not...such as PPC in the Badder's head and LB10x in the Timby CT.


Of course, a laser has no issues with any of that.

[F4T 4L]

Mcgral18, on 05 February 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

There's also a PPC...but I think that's just a result of how they are modelled. They sometimes don't add the weapon if it can't fit (such as LB20x in most STs) while othertimes not...such as PPC in the Badder's head and LB10x in the Timby CT.


Of course, a laser has no issues with any of that.

Thanks!

Damn i really hope we get that as the base config, rather than just one variant..

Edited by F4T 4L, 05 February 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[Soy]

Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall locked-in CAP!

[MauttyKoray]

darkchylde, on 04 February 2015 - 03:44 PM, said:

in MWO..OMNI tech is flawed like DHS.

Omnitech isn't 'flawed'. It was changed because of the variants rule for skills, otherwise you would have ONE mech, and could never get past basic, that and we would see some of the stupidest boating ever.

DHS are broken, because this game has a ridiculous inflated heatcap. Want to see the alpha builds become the ONLY viable build? Bring those 2.0 DHS back and watch them alpha, dissipate ALL THEIR HEAT and then alpha again, repeat. You want to see DHS come back to 2.0? Reduce heatcap, armor will have to be reduced to compensate for the lower DPS, ammo will have to be reduced due to lower armor and not needing to fire 2x as many rounds to do the same percentage of damage to a mech.

Lots of stuff can be fixed in relation to a reduced heat cap. PGI just doesn't have the balls to do it cause the community is used to the way the game is and comp teams and meta players would probably outright quit as they couldn't be 'the best' simply because they use the top min-maxed builds anymore with high alpha pinpoint that they do now.

----------------

On Topic

I'm against removing the fixed equipment. Either we stick to the omnipod/locked equipment design, or we go to the non-fixed equipment with LOCKED hardpoints. Its currently the only ways to balance clan omnimechs, as without those fixed hardpoints on the omnipods, this game and the clan mechs would have become utterly flavorless boats where only the ones fitting the most weapons would EVER be used.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 05 February 2015 - 05:14 PM.

[Ultimax]

These should be removable.

The performance of both of these mechs is bad enough that forcing them to take sub-optimal or even worthless items as permanent locks is just bad.


There is no valid mechanical reason to keep these locked on these mechs, and the lore can go stuff itself.

[MauttyKoray]

Ultimatum X, on 05 February 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

These should be removable.

The performance of both of these mechs is bad enough that forcing them to take sub-optimal or even worthless items as permanent locks is just bad.


There is no valid mechanical reason to keep these locked on these mechs, and the lore can go stuff itself.

I hate to burst your bubble, but nothing in this game is worthless. It may not fit into the 'META' but as I've stated before, overheating or killing with a flamer is possible, it is VERY possible. Just because people can't learn to deal with something doesn't mean it should be changed for their sake.

So many people have called the Adder, Nova, Ice Ferret, Awesome, Locust, and plenty of other mechs or weapons 'useless' but I laugh in their face as I wreck face in my Awesome, getting Ace of Spades worthy games with both it and my Locust. Or as I run around beating to death people with my Adder or Nova. Even the Ice Ferret I was pulling 400+ damage game with STOCK loadouts while people complaining posting sub 100 damage games and calling it DOA.

DO NOT blame something for personal ineptitude. If you can't handle the way something is, and its not broken, just move forward and either learn to deal with it, move on from it, or figure out how to work around it. Heck, I carry a flamer or 2 on plenty of mechs simply because they can ruin someones day, especially HDPPA Meta boats that think they're hot stuff. Well, they literally get to be.

[Serpieri]

Ultimatum X, on 05 February 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

These should be removable.

The performance of both of these mechs is bad enough that forcing them to take sub-optimal or even worthless items as permanent locks is just bad.


There is no valid mechanical reason to keep these locked on these mechs, and the lore can go stuff itself.

But - we can't cause clans....

locked equipment. is BS..some of these mechs may be fixable.

Edited by Serpieri, 05 February 2015 - 05:42 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

On Topic

I'm against removing the fixed equipment. Either we stick to the omnipod/locked equipment design, or we go to the non-fixed equipment with LOCKED hardpoints. Its currently the only ways to balance clan omnimechs, as without those fixed hardpoints on the omnipods, this game and the clan mechs would have become utterly flavorless boats where only the ones fitting the most weapons would EVER be used.

i understand, but this topic isnt sugesting JJ or DHS be removed,
just the Flamer/CAP of the Adder/MistLynx, to my Knowledge the only 2 mechs with such limitations,
both would benefit from their removal, and would set them apart from the KitFox(which is a Jack of all trades now),

[Soy]

As I wind down my Mist Lynx grind tonight, here's my final conclusive opinion about what should be done regarding that waste of an important ton known as the CAP:

[Impossible Wasabi]

MauttyKoray, on 05 February 2015 - 05:11 PM, said:

PGI just doesn't have the balls to do it cause the community is used to the way the game is and comp teams and meta players would probably outright quit as they couldn't be 'the best' simply because they use the top min-maxed builds anymore with high alpha pinpoint that they do now.

Yes, it's not as if the comp teams or good players know how to play the game.

Of course, some players do crutch on good builds, but the Space Pope highly doubts you would see very much difference in the top level of comp play or pugging (apart form seeing less meta builds).

Edited by The True Space Pope, 05 February 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Andi Nagasia, on 05 February 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

i understand, but this topic isnt sugesting JJ or DHS be removed,
just the Flamer/CAP of the Adder/MistLynx, to my Knowledge the only 2 mechs with such limitations,
both would benefit from their removal, and would set them apart from the KitFox(which is a Jack of all trades now),

My Adder will wipe its ass with the piece of tissue known as the Kit Fox. I have yet to see a Kit Fox (even with its ECM, AMS, and varied loadouts) not run from me as I tear it to pieces and simultaneously cook it as it can't get away running the same speed as me.