233 replies to this topic

[OskaRus]

Bushido is not about making combat comfortable for your enemy but about valour, galantry, consistence and loyality. Samurays were headyng everyone anyway. lol.

[GreenShadow]

Sun Tze said:All warfare is based on deception.

Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable;

when using yur forces, you must seem inactive;

when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away;

when far away, we must make him believe we are near.

Hold out baits to entice the enemy.

Feign disorder, and crush him

If he is in superior strength, evade him.

If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him.

Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant and imprudent.

Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.

Hit where it hurts most

This is the Art of War
(do you see anything about "honor" or "fair play" in it?)

Edited by GreenShadow, 04 July 2012 - 02:37 AM.

[wanderer]

Lavi, on 04 July 2012 - 01:47 AM, said:

even when I'm greatly in the same terms as you....
c'mon... dont' tell me that you, poor little jenner wont kick the *** of the arrogant atlas or battlemaster that happened to fall from a rock or shutted down beacouse of overheating....

even in the kick a fallen opponent you can find reasons to defend

Not fallen. Dead. As in "Can't do nothin". If I can ram someone, I will trample them underfoot, turn around, and cheerfully try and blow their head off as they get back up.

But shooting a dead 'Mech is just going "Hey, I want you to have a bigger repair bill.". That leads to people blowing the guns off a Jenner, a leg for good measure, and then letting it gimp around while you reduce every opposing 'Mech to 100% slag. Then blowing all the parts you can off the Jenner for good measure before killing it.

To me, that's not playing. That's just being an unmitigated pack of *****.

[Chromoid]

wanderer, on 04 July 2012 - 09:07 AM, said:

Not fallen. Dead. As in "Can't do nothin". If I can ram someone, I will trample them underfoot, turn around, and cheerfully try and blow their head off as they get back up.

But shooting a dead 'Mech is just going "Hey, I want you to have a bigger repair bill.". That leads to people blowing the guns off a Jenner, a leg for good measure, and then letting it gimp around while you reduce every opposing 'Mech to 100% slag. Then blowing all the parts you can off the Jenner for good measure before killing it.

To me, that's not playing. That's just being an unmitigated pack of *****.

...What if the player's just a horrible shot and manages to destroy everything else on the other 'Mechs before finally coring them?

Not that I'm a horrible shot or anything...

[BlakeAteIt]

IMTatsu, on 02 July 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Lead by example. Do your part to make this great house something more than the memory that increasingly fewer of us remember.

>:{

If my 'contribution to this great house' is teaching new players how to 1) Win and 2) Fight mean, then I see no problem with that.

<|:3

Edited by BlakeAteIt, 04 July 2012 - 10:41 AM.

[wanderer]

Chromoid, on 04 July 2012 - 10:34 AM, said:

...What if the player's just a horrible shot and manages to destroy everything else on the other 'Mechs before finally coring them?

Not that I'm a horrible shot or anything...

Then they weren't dead while you were shooting them now, were they?

Many designs have a head or CT-mounted gun of some kind, which means at least they're getting to shoot back while being chewed into scraps if not utterly disabled.

[Infine]

wanderer, on 04 July 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Then they weren't dead while you were shooting them now, were they?

I think he means those "griefing" moments often come accidentally.

There was that game in Inner City. Me in RFL-7M (4ML, 2LG, ECM). I'm being hounded by some NovaCat variant. I jump into a very narrow alley, we both run passive and both are fresh. Since I have ECM and he's passive, he doesn't have me on the radar. So he goes past me and takes an alpha to his left arm. He turns at the next street, goes around the other side and goes past me again (guess he didn't notice me). He takes the second alpha to the left arm, and I run out of the alley as he stops and starts turning around. Just in time to again see his left side. Bang goes the left arm. I run across the street past the corner, turn around and this time purposefully slice his other arm off. Yay! armed NC. And my team advices me to just abandon the poor guy and go kill the remaining KitFox and MadDog.

The other story. Defiance. A half-dead himera with a PPC VS a DireWolf with 10UAC2 (sorta Bane). Chimera jumps and takes an arrow to a knee. Funny thing is, that was the last salvo for the DireWolf. So now we have a legged red-to-black Chimera with a single PPC stumbling at 27kph from a 40kph DireWolf with no ammo. It was the only time I've seen a ramming kill done on purpose.

Also I used to run Awesome with 4 PPCs alot. I was quite good at spreading damage, so during worse games running stripped of weapons was not that uncommon and not entirely the enemy fault either.

Edited by Infine, 04 July 2012 - 11:36 PM.

[SOGNeon]

Speaking as a Kurita Samurai, I will do everything (within the rules of warfare) to defeat you. this is the only honorable way to fight. there are a few minor traditions I may uphold, but at the end of the day if it is not your head being presented to my commander, it is my personal effects being presented to my next of kin. if this means I run circles around you, plant a nark beacon on your back, and shoot you in the hip whenever possible, that is what I will do. and if you give me a good fight, I will even speak highly of you over a steaming cup of plum wine with my lancemates after the battle.

Speaking as a Warrior of the Clans, I will and have turned around in the middle of a dual and destroy one of my own teammates who was so dishonorable as to fire LRM's at my opponent while we where fighting, my opponent and I then finished our own dual while exchanging surprised messages about our mutual reaction to the interruption. I will abide by the terms of the bidding and the bachall (including possible bidding out leg or head shots). but once honor has been violated by someone, it is on.

honorable conduct is not stylized dualing. if you have a personal conflict with me that requires a dual, then we have a problem that is bigger than the game and it needs to be settled in some way outside of the game.if you just want to test yourself against me, so be it. we might be able to negotiate something, but I do not think game mechanics support this at the moment based on announcements I have read. as it stands that kind of targeting is still honorable combat. this is not to say if you stumble onto a damaged mech limping along that there is any honor or glory in blasting them in the back with a couple AC20 bursts, but nothing would stop me from letting you know I am present, then engaging you to finish off that damaged leg and "put you out of your misery"... I will let you die with your honor in tact though. of course if I "fire a shot across your bow" and you ignore me, I may just attach a narc to your back and call for a fire mission from my lance mates. leaving you to die without honor.

[Terminal Blue]

A legless bird can still fly. Your Bushido will not save you.

[Adridos]

Terminal Blue, on 07 July 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:

A legless bird can still fly. Your Bushido will not save you.

You have your own thread furrry, don't spam the rest of teh forum with your bird obsession.

[De Wolfie]

War is an art, and killing is a profession, as all us fellow soldiers have to realize. It isn't about giving ground or waiting for the other breaths', no, here we are doing all we can, taking every advantage to acchive victory or die in a glorious battle.

[Virgil Caine]

"I'm not afraid of loving my enemies, turning the other cheek, blessing those that would curse me, I honestly want peace with you. When you come against my country, when you come against my family, you try to destroy my people. I can't just stand by, there's no way that I can stand by. This time I will not stand by, I'm coming, and if I come, then pain is coming with me." Disciple - Game On

The problem with honor codes in war, is that they lead to a perpetuation of war, and not victory. The goal of honor codes in war is to generate more honor through combat. However, victory brings the end of combat, so therefore it is counter to the honor of a warrior to actually win any given war, only to defeat the opponents in a series of battles.

Honor codes are dishonorable, because they prolong war.

I make several points as follows to expand on my philosophy.

1. Peace is Honorable, War is Not.

2. One does not gain honor in engaging in war, one gains honor by bringing about peace.

3. Victory brings peace.

4. War is by definition inhumane, to attempt to force codes of ethics upon it to make it humane are counterproductive. To speak of "Honorable Combat" glorifies it, and is an affront to the very nature of humanity. War is not glorious, it's terrible, and i deem fit to make it as terrible as possible to discourage it's continuation.

5. I will use any methods I deem fit to bring about peace, up to and including backstabbing, assassination, guerilla warfare, blockades, ambushes, ganging up, especially attacking the morale of my opponent. I will incite riots, and dissent amongst their population to further this end.

6. Civilians are only safe if they actively oppose the enemy regime. If not, they will be assumed to be supporting the enemy and treated appropriately. You support my enemies, you ARE my enemies.

7. I will deploy my most effective weapons on anything I deem a military threat, this includes your vehicles, personnel, communications, supply infrastructure (including food production). Civilians unduly affected by these tactics are my opponent's responsibility, not mine. Don't raise arms against me and you never have to face this.

8. I won't hit just hit you till you stop hitting back, I will hit you until you are UNABLE to hit back.

[Silent]

Adridos, on 08 July 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

You have your own thread furrry, don't spam the rest of teh forum with your bird obsession.

Birds don't have fur, fyi.

[Adridos]

Silent, on 08 July 2012 - 05:10 AM, said:

Birds don't have fur, fyi.

[color=#000000]F[/color]urry definition - One who has an interest (small or large) of anthropomorphic animals (animals who have a human qualities be it simply talking or having a human-like body).

The fur in the name of this obsession is just a generalisation, since most furries pretend to be wolves or something like that, but it doesn't make the people with same obsession, just different animal non-furries.

[Nigredo]

O.o

i see you... i will try to kill you by any and all means necessary and using every dirty trick known... welcome to the game...special consideration will be given to the SA people..i will take my time on that lot.

[marcus elgin]

Nigredo, on 08 July 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

O.o

i see you... i will try to kill you by any and all means necessary and using every dirty trick known... welcome to the game...special consideration will be given to the SA people..i will take my time on that lot.

No, see there are no dirty tricks. There's only shooting other peoples space robot, which some people seem to think is beyond the pale. That's what makes this honor stuff incredibly stupid.

[fil5000]

Nigredo, on 08 July 2012 - 05:19 AM, said:

O.o

i see you... i will try to kill you by any and all means necessary and using every dirty trick known... welcome to the game...special consideration will be given to the SA people..i will take my time on that lot.

Please do take your time. That makes it easier for a Jenner to get behind you so an Atlas can shove you over it. Man, I hope they have mech sized lockers we can stuff people in.

Oh, hey Adridos. Still ending every post with a smiley? You should probably get that looked at.

[KageRyuu]

First of all, the word is Japanese for a reason (though technically it has nothing to do with what you proposed), second, there is lore that supports both arguments for and against certain codes of conduct, however none as I remember them were ever officially documented, and third of all, given what the devs have said about the "effectiveness" of legging, I doubt many will try that tactic more than once. After all when the goal is to destroy your enemy, destroying them as quickly as possible is your safest means of doing so, and going after a non-vital area just doesn't come across me as wise.

As for your third suggested article, as far as I'm aware the point is to destroy the enemy or capture a base, and while I'm certain some people would piece-meal a mech (Destroying all non vital areas before vital areas), I very much doubt they'd do so if they didn't already have quite the advantage. Regardless, piece-meal-ing which is what I assume you mean when you say "unnecessary beat down" like legging is another unwise tactic, even more so actually. Regardless, once a mech is destroyed it's out of the fight, so if someone wants to give my allies a nice juicy target by focusing on blowing of all my non-vital parts first before finishing me off, then by all means go right ahead, just don't be surprised when they obliterate your rear armor in nothing flat before coring you.

So besides the wisdom or lack thereof behind actions attributed to the second and third article, I don't see the point in following them or ignoring them when the opposite is generally less wise. However, if you're the kind of fool who tries to run around without any leg armor on, don't be surprised if you get taken out quick as **** once people realize you're legs are practically defenseless. There's a fine line between following a code of conduct and abusing it,

As for the first article, we don't know how easy or hard head hunting will be, but so far Head Hunting seems to be the quickest way to take out a mech from the front (maybe the rear too), with rear coring possibly being faster or slightly slower than head hunting. Regardless, as I stated before about having a code of conduct and abusing one, don't be surprised if you try to run around with no head armor only to get killed fast as flash. It's your own fault for trying to use some code of conduct in place of actual armor.


So in the end, I do my own thing. I'm not going to attempt an unwise maneuver or tactic unless it'll benefit me and my team in the long run, and I'm not about to disarm myself by following someone else's code of conduct when they could quite possibly be abusing said code for their own personal gain. I always go for the quickest kill or most beneficial shot available to me at the time, be that your head, rear armor, center torso, or what have you. I am a Mercenary and killing is my business, and on the battlefields of the 31st century, business is good.

[Shivan Reaper]

As long as inflicting enough damage to the legs will still slow your turning speed, I will absolutely target legs when I am in a light mech, then get you to turn to follow me, letting my lancemates get plenty of shots at your rear armor. Also, makes it easier to run away if things go south.

[Terminal Blue]

Adridos, on 08 July 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

[color=#000000]F[/color]urry definition - One who has an interest (small or large) of anthropomorphic animals (animals who have a human qualities be it simply talking or having a human-like body).

The fur in the name of this obsession is just a generalisation, since most furries pretend to be wolves or something like that, but it doesn't make the people with same obsession, just different animal non-furries.

I... wait, what? How did you decide that I was a furry again? Your baseless accusations do not phase me.