233 replies to this topic

[Buttlord]

IMTatsu, on 29 June 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

There's been considerable activity in other forums, so I thought I'd bring it here.

From the beginning of time, in as much as it relates to us here, we have followed the Honor Code of mech combat, primarily defined as:
1. No Heading
2. No Legging
3. No Unnecessary Beatdown of an Incapacitated Foe.

With the potential massive influx of the new 'Pepsi Generation', they're understanding is 'Play to Win'. Every rule of warfare they've ever been subjected to up to this point is 'By Any Means Necessary'

Battletech purists would argue that the most effective method of mech combat completely contradicts the Honor Code we have traditionally clung to. If the game employs salvage rules, this is going to be an even more important topic.

Here it is gang. What do you think?

This is counterstrike with robots, and you want everyone to follow a arbitrary set of "honour" rules limiting their options in gameplay?

Okay.

[Voyager I]

A few questions for the OP:

1. Do you know what nationality the Capellan Confederation descended from?



2. Do you know who the Death Commandos are?





Knowing the answer to either of these questions makes the entire premise of the OP hilarious.

Edited by Voyager I, 02 July 2012 - 01:08 AM.

[Chuggernaut]

What is the CC's favorite weapon? If you said "land mines" you know more about the CapCon than the OP does.

[Voyager I]

Chuggernaut, on 02 July 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

What is the CC's favorite weapon? If you said "land mines" you know more about the CapCon than the OP does.

I was going to say "civilian hostages". Was I close?

[nektu]

Killer Rock, on 01 July 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Games in the 90's and even early 2000's had a different style to them. MPBT Solaris or DAoC or whatever other multiplayer games usually had some sort of honor code to follow that was implemented by the players and was actually followed by the majority of the players. Now adays if someone tried to add any player made rules, you would be hard pressed to ever get the community to listen.

This is totally and utterly wrong. The smaller and more inbred a gaming society, the more strange rules pop up. And the longer this society exists, the more involved those rules get, until only the spergiest of the spergs continue playing. Once that stage is reached, the game can no longer aquire new players in big numbers, because the old-timers start to show hostility against new people/new ideas and run off anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You can witness that process in many, MANY mods of popular games today.

Obviously this depends on the power to police the behaviour of newcomers (for example by banning them from the single available game server), and as such does not work as well for official games.

As to the state of battletech/mechwarrior, weeeellllll...

Read these forums, get banned from MWLL for legging, visit a hobby shop and play it with real people and you will know EXACTLY what the state of this little gaming society is today.

I'm really, really glad all that will be reset with MWO, and fresh blood will FINALLY give it fresh wind.

Edited by nektu, 02 July 2012 - 01:49 AM.

[Buttlord]

nektu, on 02 July 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

This is totally and utterly wrong. The smaller and more inbred a gaming society, the more strange rules pop up. And the longer this society exists, the more involved those rules get, until only the spergiest of the spergs continue playing. Once that stage is reached, the game can no longer aquire new players in big numbers, because the old-timers start to show hostility against new people/new ideas and run off anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You can witness that process in many, MANY mods of popular games today.

Obviously this depends on the power to police the behaviour of newcomers (for example by banning them from the single available game server), and as such does not work as well for official games.

As to the state of battletech/mechwarrior, weeeellllll...

Read these forums, get banned from MWLL for legging, visit a hobby shop and play it with real people and you will know EXACTLY what the state of this little gaming society is today.

I'm really, really glad all that will be reset with MWO, and fresh blood will FINALLY give it fresh wind.

This is a good post. In addition to this, if a game is so awfully designed and terribly balanced (like Solaris was) that the community needs to come up with and adhere to arbitrary "honor" rules that prevent exploiting the terrible game mechanics, in order to simply make the game bearable, that game is a ****** game.

A game should be enjoyable by design, no matter what strategies or tactics the players employ.

[Gunmage]

As i see, first two clauses of OP post were appropriately discussed in this thread. But i still can't understand the third one: 3. No Unnecessary Beatdown of an Incapacitated Foe. What does that mean? I can't shoot at a destoyed mech? Or if some reckless mechwarrior forces himself to a shutdown i can't punish him for his carelessness? If it's the first, I can do that; but the second variant makes no sense IMHO. In which case dealing damage to an enemy mech can be inappropriate?

[yaay]

Chuggernaut, on 02 July 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

What is the CC's favorite weapon? If you said "land mines" you know more about the CapCon than the OP does.

[Ramrod]

Gunmage, on 02 July 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

As i see, first two clauses of OP post were appropriately discussed in this thread. But i still can't understand the third one: 3. No Unnecessary Beatdown of an Incapacitated Foe. What does that mean? I can't shoot at a destoyed mech? Or if some reckless mechwarrior forces himself to a shutdown i can't punish him for his carelessness? If it's the first, I can do that; but the second variant makes no sense IMHO. In which case dealing damage to an enemy mech can be inappropriate?

I think he means a Mech that tripped. Which is even more nonsensical, since it's the fastest way to beat down a sneaky light that might be able to run circles around you.

Sorry, OP, but if you fall flat on your face, I'm shooting your ***.

Edited by Ramrod, 02 July 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[Shal Novastorm]

I'm going to leg the **** out of the OP.

[Rorusbass]

Shal Novastorm, on 02 July 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I'm going to leg the **** out of the OP.

You might consider legging someone else then us greenies, try red they make excellent candidates for legging.

[Shal Novastorm]

Gotta purge the weakness, bro.

Purge it by legging the **** out of it.

[Killer Rock]

nektu, on 02 July 2012 - 01:48 AM, said:

This is totally and utterly wrong. The smaller and more inbred a gaming society, the more strange rules pop up. And the longer this society exists, the more involved those rules get, until only the spergiest of the spergs continue playing. Once that stage is reached, the game can no longer aquire new players in big numbers, because the old-timers start to show hostility against new people/new ideas and run off anyone who doesn't agree with them.

You can witness that process in many, MANY mods of popular games today.

Obviously this depends on the power to police the behaviour of newcomers (for example by banning them from the single available game server), and as such does not work as well for official games.

As to the state of battletech/mechwarrior, weeeellllll...

Read these forums, get banned from MWLL for legging, visit a hobby shop and play it with real people and you will know EXACTLY what the state of this little gaming society is today.

I'm really, really glad all that will be reset with MWO, and fresh blood will FINALLY give it fresh wind.

The rules were there for a reason, and i was very young at the time. If i could understand them, then anyone new could. You can claim they are unfriendly to new people, but i can claim that they weren't. Though I'm guessing you never even played MPBT Solaris and are just generalizing small game communities as rude to new people. But people in every game will tell you that a good community only enhances game play and i have played many multiplayer games and mmo's and my personal opinion is that is harder to find now a days. Most people would rather grief and troll you than be friendly now. (again personal opinion)

Buttlord, on 02 July 2012 - 02:50 AM, said:

This is a good post. In addition to this, if a game is so awfully designed and terribly balanced (like Solaris was) that the community needs to come up with and adhere to arbitrary "honor" rules that prevent exploiting the terrible game mechanics, in order to simply make the game bearable, that game is a ****** game.

A game should be enjoyable by design, no matter what strategies or tactics the players employ.

MPBT Solaris was released back in 1996 i think, no game i played then had "amazing" game mechanics, but the game was fun for its time.

As for DAoC, it had some honor codes run by most players too, and it was far from a ****** game. A lot of people including myself still think that game had the best RvR/PvP to ever exist.

[Shal Novastorm]

I'd also like to ban all stages but Final Destination, and remove items from the game, thanks in advance.

[Infine]

I wonder if OP bred some new species of landmines that leave legs intact

No, seriously. If you want to fight "fair" - go choose another faction.

The only way I expect capellans to abide by any honour rules is when they can honourably face a Locust in an Atlas. No running out of weapon range and LoS included

Honour. Heh. A word a bunch of hypocrite clanners invented to have an excuse to bully some poor little greens in walking trashcans from some backwater garrison.

[Fyad]

Chuggernaut, on 02 July 2012 - 01:18 AM, said:

What is the CC's favorite weapon? If you said "land mines" you know more about the CapCon than the OP does.

[Chuggernaut]

Voyager I, on 02 July 2012 - 01:25 AM, said:

I was going to say "civilian hostages". Was I close?

The CC counts those as armor, not weaponry. Especially when the children are strapped directly to the torso of a mech.

[Squidhead Jax]

Chuggernaut, on 02 July 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

The CC counts those as armor, not weaponry. Especially when the children are strapped directly to the torso of a mech.

*sigh* It's not our fault that Davion's forces attacked on Take Your Children To Work Day...

Edited by Squidhead Jax, 02 July 2012 - 10:05 AM.

[nektu]

Killer Rock, on 02 July 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

The rules were there for a reason, and i was very young at the time. If i could understand them, then anyone new could. You can claim they are unfriendly to new people, but i can claim that they weren't.

Yea, I never played MPBT Solaris - and I believe that you are right when you say that the rules developed for a reason and were not meant to be unfriendly.

Now, look at BT today - first and foremost this very forum. Many of the first threads after it went online were much concerned with legging, with all those darn kids invading MY GAME only to leg, and how new players with their disgusting ways would destroy this very game. Also they insisted that this game should be made only for REAL BT FANS™, because they waited 25 years for it and ******* deserved it!

I'm not even kidding

Killer Rock, on 02 July 2012 - 08:38 AM, said:

Though I'm guessing you never even played MPBT Solaris and are just generalizing small game communities as rude to new people. But people in every game will tell you that a good community only enhances game play and i have played many multiplayer games and mmo's and my personal opinion is that is harder to find now a days. Most people would rather grief and troll you than be friendly now. (again personal opinion)

Haha, damn. Perhaps you actually have a point after all, and everything WAS better in the past. Because I'm also hardpressed to name a good gaming community today...

Edited by nektu, 02 July 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[IMTatsu]

Half of me wishes I hadn't started this thread to begin with. The other half of me is glad that I did, if for no other reason than it gave a pretty clear look at the landscape, and the journey that lies ahead for our great house.

I was both surprised and saddend by the demeanor, the tone, and the overall disrespectful attitudes from many of the posters who call themselves Capellans. It doesn't matter so much for myself. I'm a big boy, and been carrying water for this gaming universe for longer than some of these folks have been alive..

However, it brings me no small amount of despair to think what prospective new Capellans have to look forward to. The number of people active on these forums now will only pale in comparison to what it will be as we get closer to launch. It is you here now, all of you, who will define the shape and course of the Capellan Confederation. Future potential leaders each and every one.

Lead by example. Do your part to make this great house something more than the memory that increasingly fewer of us remember.

>:{

Edited by IMTatsu, 02 July 2012 - 02:11 PM.