132 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

KraftySOT, on 02 March 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

TacOps and Maxtech.

http://megamek.info/

Get that, go into the client options, check off everything in the Line of Sight and Advanced Rules. Make sure everything related to double blind is checked.

Drop some mechs on a nice hilly map on different teams and play around with that. See what happens when you throw in the various ECM types, ECCM, ECCCM, Beagles, etc. Clan mechs have some neat options too.

It should show your sensor range on the mech placards first page, and on the systems page on the placard, itll show you your sensor modes, switching between the various ways of scanning.

I appreciate the links but I'm not seeing where this particular aspect of MegaMek is referencing a specific BattleTech rule set.

Or am I missing that somewhere?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but ultimately I don't care what other self-admitted 'unofficial' titles do vs. what MWO does. I do kind of consider the BattleTech rule set the "starting point" of where all these games should be oriented from, however, hence my interest in seeing if MegaMek is actually referencing a rule set. THEN, I could review it and discuss it from a more 'informed' canon/lore based perspective.

[KraftySOT]

Yup.

See in battletech. A hill blocks everything. Buildings block some things. Woods block some things. Constructions (walls, concrete or metal, or some other such construction) blocks nothing.

Take for instance in say, Rivercity. The buildings, should be blocking IR, however no tree, wall, car, crane, turret, lamp post, or other small thin manmade thing, should be blocking our IR.

Hills block seismic for instance (doesnt happen in MWO) but buildings wont. Magscan should see through buildings, thats a mode we dont even have. Then you have night vision.

We have seismic as a module, even though its available to infantry units...

Im not saying we should copy the complexity of hte Btech stuff. But something other than what we have new would be the bees knees.

At least something as good as MW3 and 4. Active and passive. I can live with active and passive.

Artgathan, on 02 March 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

LOS Targetting is actually consistent with battletech - consider the Madcat: sensors trying to ID it would switch between the Catapult and Marauder. If Radars in BT used only IFF transponders, this would never have happened - IS pilots would have simply gotten 'unknown target' on the screen.

That said, I think our sensors could use some work. Check my sig for details.

Stackpole did us no favors.

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

I appreciate the links but I'm not seeing where this particular aspect of MegaMek is referencing a specific BattleTech rule set.

Or am I missing that somewhere?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but ultimately I don't care what other self-admitted 'unofficial' titles do vs. what MWO does. I do kind of consider the BattleTech rule set the "starting point" of where all these games should be oriented from, however, hence my interest in seeing if MegaMek is actually referencing a rule set. THEN, I could review it and discuss it from a more 'informed' canon/lore based perspective.

TacOps p220-222 I believe.

[Dino Might]

Cathy, on 02 March 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

tonnage makes no difference to radar range, the electronic and the power behind it do, as all mechs are powered by fusion engines, radar will be pretty similar even by different designers

Radar detection range is dependent on energy transmitted and the reflectivity of an object, which depends on it's size and material composition (and surface coating). As such, you are correct in that tonnage does not directly impact this detection range; however in MWO, mechs are scaled primarily based on tonnage (at least in class range), with few exceptions.

Radar (and other sensor) detection range should absolutely be scaled based on what you are trying to detect. Certain mechs geometry could be incorporated to justify certain quirks for "stealthiness" or "ease of detection" (think, Timberwolf probably easier to detect because of its large surface area and radar reflector like joint between the torso box launchers and the lower side torso. The bulbous nose contributes to this as well).

Considering other sensors, like magnetometers (firstly, a Magnetic Anomaly Detector (MAD) device has a very short range, if scaled to MWO ranges, would be within small laser distance), then tonnage once again comes into play. The overall magnetic signature is impacted by the size of the object and how magnetized it is (how aligned the polar elements are). You could even incorporate some cool new things, like when charging a gauss rifle, the mech is easier to detect (range to detect on sensors increases by x meters). You could have the magnetometer range increase based on how long that mech has been in battle without being de-gaussed (actual thing we have to do to ships). It could be one of your c-bill sinks (pay to de-gauss or suffer a +50m detection range over your base until you do). The possibilities are endless.

This is absolutely something that should be incorporated. It would allow for so much more diversity in mechs and their quirks, and add something else to the playstyle.

But i get it - you guys in the assaults really hate lights sneaking up on your and killing you 1 v 1....
Which is why with this change, there should also be a slew of new sensor upgrade/skill options and mech quirks to broaden the mech selection pallet. Maybe give some underperforming Assaults like the Highlander a special MAD suite to detect mechs even without LOS within a certain distance. Not recommending that, but I'm using it as an example of what you could do with a system like this.

Edited by Dino Might, 02 March 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[KraftySOT]

http://d15yciz5bluc8...view.pdf?a88c0c

Yup P220-222. Doubleblind rules.

Megamek is an easier way to check out how it actually works, than just reading about it.

[Dimento Graven]

Jman5, on 02 March 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

The purpose is to allow smaller mechs a greater ability to scout and avoid being spotted.

Smaller 'mechs CAN scout without being spotted if they keep in cover.

What seems to be suggested here, however, is that a 'mech in plain sight be "invisible" to the targeting computer because of its size and range.

That just seems... Wrong.

Once a target is visible, that alone makes it 'targetable.'

Quote

In my mind there is a big difference between being seen and being targeted. In the first case, the only people who know your location are people who are staring directly at you.

It works that way now, EXCEPT that in the case of a 'mech not under an enemy's ECM, his targeting computer can report the location of the visible 'mech to the rest of his team mates.

Quote

In the other case, you have a bright, neon red triangle hovering over your head. As soon as someone presses the "R" button suddenly everybody on the team knows where you are.

Yes, again that makes sense because all the team's 'mechs are communicating with each other, sharing information. The only time that shouldn't be possible is if you're being blocked via an enemy's ECM.

Quote

I can't tell you how many times my eyes briefly catch the red triangle, but I didn't otherwise notice the mech. Without that, I wouldn't have noticed.

I believe it's important to create more separation between the tonnages to make player choice more meaningful. This strengthens one of the pillars of the game, role warfare, by allowing them to sneak in a little closer to scout or harry the enemy. In my opinion, it's also a pretty intuitive change to make small mechs harder to see than big mechs.

I disagree with the basis of this, and feel it would 'break the game' to a significant degree.

[KraftySOT]

Dino Might, on 02 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Radar detection range is dependent on energy transmitted and the reflectivity of an object, which depends on it's size and material composition (and surface coating). As such, you are correct in that tonnage does not directly impact this detection range; however in MWO, mechs are scaled primarily based on tonnage (at least in class range), with few exceptions.

Radar (and other sensor) detection range should absolutely be scaled based on what you are trying to detect. Certain mechs geometry could be incorporated to justify certain quirks for "stealthiness" or "ease of detection" (think, Timberwolf probably easier to detect because of its large surface area and radar reflector like joint between the torso box launchers and the lower side torso. The bulbous nose contributes to this as well).

Considering other sensors, like magnetometers (firstly, a MAD device has a very short range, if scaled to MWO ranges, would be within small laser distance), then tonnage once again comes into play. The overall magnetic signature is impacted by the size of the object and how magnetized it is (how aligned the polar elements are). You could even incorporate some cool new things, like when charging a gauss rifle, the mech is easier to detect (range to detect on sensors increases by x meters). You could have the magnetometer range increase based on how long that mech has been in battle without being de-gaussed (actual thing we have to do to ships). It could be one of your c-bill sinks (pay to de-gauss or suffer a +50m detection range over your base until you do). The possibilities are endless.

This is absolutely something that should be incorporated. It would allow for so much more diversity in mechs and their quirks, and add something else to the playstyle.

This guy right here. *thumbs up*

[Dimento Graven]

KraftySOT, on 02 March 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Yup.

See in battletech. A hill blocks everything. Buildings block some things. Woods block some things. Constructions (walls, concrete or metal, or some other such construction) blocks nothing.

Semi exaggeration there on hills. It was dependent on the height of the hill, not just the fact that it was a hill. Hence BT maps being labled with "Level 1" and "Level 2" when it came to hills. A level 1 hill would hide the LOWER portion of the mech from view, limiting the damage rolls to the upper portion of the 'mech, while a level 2 hill would completely hide EVERY 'mech.

Quote

Take for instance in say, Rivercity. The buildings, should be blocking IR, however no tree, wall, car, crane, turret, lamp post, or other small thin manmade thing, should be blocking our IR.

That acutally depends on the make of the building and how hot the 'mech is. There are certain buildings that do not allow you to see an enemy 'mech on the other side, while there are others where you CAN see the enemy 'mech on the other side, but you can't hit them (I dunno what the difference is, but I do not that in the corner opposite the ship in River City Night, there's a few buildings where if there's a 'mech behind it I can see it in thermal, but can't hit until it comes out from behind the building).

Quote

Hills block seismic for instance (doesnt happen in MWO) but buildings wont. Magscan should see through buildings, thats a mode we dont even have. Then you have night vision

We have seismic as a module, even though its available to infantry units...

Im not saying we should copy the complexity of hte Btech stuff. But something other than what we have new would be the bees knees.

At least something as good as MW3 and 4. Active and passive. I can live with active and passive.

... Why would hills block seismic?

That seems... spurious...

Quote

Stackpole did us no favors.

My understanding is that Stackpole worked closely with FASA when he wrote his novels. Again, I count what FASA, WhizKids, et al, as the "starting point" for what we see here in MWO.

I totally get that it can't match 100%, but at least there should be enough common ground to point to a particular rule set and say, "THIS, is where we started..."

Quote

TacOps p220-222 I believe.

Oh, ok, yeah, I'll check that out then, thanks!

[Egomane]

You are arguing based on a misconception.

We don't use radar in MWO. Else we would be able to scan behind us.

Yes, I know that there is directional radar, but mechs like the Jagermech with their rotating radar sensor would be able to do this.

I don't know what we use, but it most certainly is not radar and it simply works the way it does and for some reason BAP, Targeting Computers and a module can extend its range.

@KraftySOT
All those bells and wistles from MaxTech are not the usual ruleset for Battletech, They are only there for those who want additional flavor. They are also for an outdated version of the Tabletop and Roleplaying game rules.
An error you made: All mechs have two slots of sensors in the head, which are weightless.

But getting back on those optional, but still official, MaxTech rules, an Ostscout or Raven would have sensor suits that are superior to most others. That alone should show that the OPs suggestion has no place in the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe. At least not in this way. In a gameplay sense they are also bad as they would once again only apply an advantage to the bigger mech, which already have superior armor and firepower, while the lighter mechs have speed and maneuverability. Now those lighter mechs would have to get even closer to the biggger mechs, where their speed and maneuverability become less and less a factor (unless you are good enought to manage to stay at the back of a bigger mech all the time). Sorry, misread the suggestion in the OP. I still believe it's a bad idea, but for other reasons I already saw reflected in previous posts.

Edited by Egomane, 02 March 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Scale all the Mechs up to their correct FASA heights, and maybe this wouldn't be such a viable idea. Keep in mind, the Commando is an 11m tall Mech, the Atlas is 15m tall, and most Mechs are around the 10-12m height range. That's the original heights, when you can find them at all, according to FASA. What we have in MWO is something to sooth the LCD crowd, Light Mechs are short because they are little guys, Assaults are tall because they are BIG guys, because the LCD crowd doesn't understand that volume and mass are two totally different and not related measurements when you deal with a bipedal walking tank.

Egomane did a nice write up there, which covers what I was going to cover. Atlas DDC is a dedicated command and control variant of the Atlas D, it has extensive sensors and communications gears, the Battlemaster is also a dedicated C&C Mech in all of it's configurations, comes stock with extensive sensors and commgear. Keep in mind, MOST Light Mechs in BTech aren't scouts, they are actually used as anti-infantry...

[Jman5]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Smaller 'mechs CAN scout without being spotted if they keep in cover.

What seems to be suggested here, however, is that a 'mech in plain sight be "invisible" to the targeting computer because of its size and range.

That just seems... Wrong.

Once a target is visible, that alone makes it 'targetable.'

It works that way now, EXCEPT that in the case of a 'mech not under an enemy's ECM, his targeting computer can report the location of the visible 'mech to the rest of his team mates.

Yes, again that makes sense because all the team's 'mechs are communicating with each other, sharing information. The only time that shouldn't be possible is if you're being blocked via an enemy's ECM.

I disagree with the basis of this, and feel it would 'break the game' to a significant degree.

It seems you have some misunderstanding of what is being suggested here.

Currently the way the game works, you cannot target an untargeted mech until it gets within 800 meters. You can see the mech with your eyes; they aren't invisible. If someone is within 800 meters, they can target the mech and transmit their location to the rest of team regardless of range.

The way all that works remains unchanged except how close a player has to be for a player to target an untargeted mech. However once its targeted, the red triangle is transmitted to everyone on the team just like before. If you're 1800 meters away from a mech you will still receive targeting data from the selected mech if someone got close enough to target it.

All this focuses on is adjusting the initial spotting requirement distance to make it easier for smaller mechs to get in close.

Edited by Jman5, 02 March 2015 - 03:16 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Kristov Kerensky, on 02 March 2015 - 03:07 PM, said:

Scale all the Mechs up to their correct FASA heights, and maybe this wouldn't be such a viable idea. Keep in mind, the Commando is an 11m tall Mech, the Atlas is 15m tall, and most Mechs are around the 10-12m height range. That's the original heights, when you can find them at all, according to FASA.

...

Interestingly enough the height differences for 'mechs for 'mechs was only a 'general rule of thumb' not a sacrosanct law.

First, based on Ral Patha figurines all at the 121:1(?) scale:



Next based off the Battlemech blue print posters you could purchase:

As you can see the Locust was a very tall, but very skinny 'mech...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 02 March 2015 - 03:19 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Except of course when the fluff/lore actually gives height, like the Atlas, 15m tall, tallest(NOT largest) Mech in the Star League when it was first designed, and it was given the 15m height on purpose, to make it's appearance, combined with the skullface head, the most fearsome thing on the field of battle, per Alexsandr Kerensky's direct order. FASA's own statement on height was 10-12m for the average Mech height, some being taller, some being shorter, but NONE were as short as the Mechs in MWO, since we have Mechs that stand half the height of the Atlas, and it was never 2x the height of any other Mech.

MW4 started the short Light/tall Assault sizing scale that we see, and that was directly due to the LCD crowd not understanding that volume =|= mass, so they made them 'fit' what people thought the designations should mean. MWO has, sadly, followed that same silly convention on scale. Even the blueprints you have there show that the Locust, the lightest of the Lights, is taller than a Warhammer and on par with the Marauder for height, as the human pilot for scale shows.

[SuomiWarder]

Assuming the mechs are using some type of active detection - then a locus running around detecting other Mechs will be spotted as easily as an Atlas by it's own sensor emissions. I wish we had the old passive sensors mode of MW4 where your ability to detect and be detected at range went down. A trade off.

Not that realism has anything to do with B Tech, but one would think that one or both sides would have UAVs, stealth radar aircraft, and even orbiting DropShips tracking the enemy down below.

[CocoaJin]

I'm not sure I like the idea of bigger mechs being detected from farther out...at least not in itself.

I'd rather see a more thought out and realistic sensory model.

Active sensors can detect and provide target info at long range, but this comes at the expense of being counter-detectable by others at approx twice your max range. The others still can't recieve detailed target info on you until you are within the max range of their active sensors(all cases require line of sight).

Example: MechActive has 1000m max range, MechPassive can detect MechActive at approx 2000m, but has no range or target into on MechActive. MechActive can detect MechPassive at about 1000m and will have all available target data on MechPassive. Keep in mind, if MechPassive was instead another MechActive, both mechs would see the other at about 2000m, but would have no range or target data on each other until around 1000m

Mechs would be able to upgrade to better active sensory packages, extending thier max range, but also the range in which others can detect their active signals. Passive sensors could also be upgraded, but they would provide smaller absolute boosts to detection range.

Passive sensors would require line of sight, but might not require it within a certain extremely short range(50m). They would provide no target data, but would allow for locks...but keep in mind the target can break your passive lock by toggling off his active sensors or shutting down...or moving outside your passive range if he is running on passive also.

All Mechs would have both active and passive sensors. Passive sensors would always be on, while active sensors could be toggled on and off. Passive sensors would not have acounter-detect risk like Active Sensors.

Active sensor upgrades should come with a weight and heat penalty, 0.5tons each tier, up to tier 4 or 5. And a point of idle heat per tier increase. These upgrades would provide boosts to active sensor range and to lock time...at the risk of higher counter-detect ranges while in use.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Suomi, all the previous MW titles had passive/active sensors, that's part of the BTech system to begin with, no idea why PGI didn't include it.

And to be a little clearer on how the sensors in BTech worked, a few things need to be added, which you actually touched on Suomi. Mech's sensors can and do tie in with any systems they can access, sat systems in orbit, drop ships in orbit, local sensor nets for weather, traffic control, etc. The Blood of Kerensky series touched on that, so do some of the other, non-Stackpole, novels as well(it's not a Stackpole in other words ). It's common for dropships to seed orbit with commsats before doing hotdrops or actually going in for a landing on any planet they are attacking, it's also common for the defenders of that planet to try and shoot those commsats down or counter them with ECM, it's all part of the bigger picture that we don't get in MWO that is the game of BattleTech.

[KraftySOT]

Egomane, on 02 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

You are arguing based on a misconception.

We don't use radar in MWO. Else we would be able to scan behind us.

Yes, I know that there is directional radar, but mechs like the Jagermech with their rotating radar sensor would be able to do this.

I don't know what we use, but it most certainly is not radar and it simply works the way it does and for some reason BAP, Targeting Computers and a module can extend its range.

@KraftySOT
All those bells and wistles from MaxTech are not the usual ruleset for Battletech, They are only there for those who want additional flavor. They are also for an outdated version of the Tabletop and Roleplaying game rules.
An error you made: All mechs have two slots of sensors in the head, which are weightless.

But getting back on those optional, but still official, MaxTech rules, an Ostscout or Raven would have sensor suits that are superior to most others. That alone should show that the OPs suggestion has no place in the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe. At least not in this way. In a gameplay sense they are also bad as they would once again only apply an advantage to the bigger mech, which already have superior armor and firepower, while the lighter mechs have speed and maneuverability. Now those lighter mechs would have to get even closer to the biggger mechs, where their speed and maneuverability become less and less a factor (unless you are good enought to manage to stay at the back of a bigger mech all the time). Sorry, misread the suggestion in the OP. I still believe it's a bad idea, but for other reasons I already saw reflected in previous posts.

Theyre the usual rules for Megamek however, which is slowly over taking the TT. The TT has its place, but nothing comes close to having all of it automated. Ive done huge games with all the bells and whistles optional rules, and it can be fun.

Though really, theres a level of options in the battletech universe, that goes all the way from an RPG for the pilots and techs (Mechwarror) the Solaris 1 on 1 rules, all the way up to whole companies being "one unit".

Then each level of that has very basic rules, I mean you can play without heat if you want, and then very advanced rules. Playing with the most advanced level of battletech rules available...there are sensor ranges, sensor stengths, sensor types, etc.

When you go to the lore, which the books are a part of sadly in many cases (Stackpole for instance went to a FASA that had a pretty different roster than the original FASA) theres a bunch of contradictions, but the basic over all concensus, not including the PC game franchise, is that sensors, and sensor warfare, is quite a complex process with alot of interworking systems. That mechs are unique, and that combat is pretty involved. The rules are there to support that which are just based on...the lore.

As for Mech scaling.

See. This is perfect example of contradictions. Its what happens when you have lots, and lots of people touch the IP and expand on it. When you go back to 1989. Battletech is nothing like what it is by 1999. Same thing again.

If you just shove it all together, like Megamek does. It makes an amazing game. Its hard to believe there was a time when pen and paper was the only option.

[KraftySOT]

And it doesnt have to work out to bigger = longer range, it can be something different in operation.

The point is that what we have, isnt that great, and we should at least have, what is already canon in the PC franchise. Active and Passive, and differing sensor ranges.

That PGI can increase the Cbill grind with more "content" via modules that affect it...just makes it all the better for them to do it.

[Mercules]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 01:52 PM, said:

I disagree that there is any "stealth" involved with 'mechs.

You're talking about theoretical machines powered by FUSION engines, that constantly emit electronic chatter to team mates (how do you think your teammate's locations and conditions are ALWAYS showing up on your HUD?), emitting EM "noise" from charging of weapons, active targeting, and the like, and are DAMNED noisy, oh and let's not forget huge sources of IR radiation, especially when actively firing/engaged with an enemy!!!

Crimany, 1k meters is TOO SHORT logically...

BT fluff points out that the modern battlefield is bombarded with EMF and ECM. Mech sensors can cut through it or sort it out if engaged in passive mode. ECM on a mech is actually on TOP of all the regular jamming going on which is why much of the "sensing" happens close in and often in LoS.

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:

If your point is that weapon ranges are out of whack vs. logic, yeah, but at least with weapon ranges we're talking about base values based on the TT game lore.

This, I can't recall seeing anything like this in the rule sets (though admittedly I am not as versed in the later versions as I am with the originals).

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

In BattleTech, I can't say I've ever played with the rules you're talking about. Which rule set/module book are you talking about, I'll look it up there.

Then you haven't really played BT, not the way it should be played. Double Blind took forever back in the day with a 3rd party helping out, but it was the most fun way to play.

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

I appreciate the links but I'm not seeing where this particular aspect of MegaMek is referencing a specific BattleTech rule set.

MegaMek is completely based off TT rules. Some of the rules it has are "optional" TT rules but they all come from the TT originally.

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Smaller 'mechs CAN scout without being spotted if they keep in cover.

This isn't true. If part of a mech's should pokes out from cover the red triangle can appear over it's head. To do ANYTHING, fire or scout more of the mech needs to poke out. Now if the pilot is careful and under ECM they can poke enough out that a casual scan will miss them, maybe even an unzoomed look, but with the red triangle popping up all the time there is no "scouting" going on without ECM... but ECM is a waste when scouting as it could be used to protect your whole team. So... why scout?

Egomane, on 02 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

@KraftySOT
All those bells and wistles from MaxTech are not the usual ruleset for Battletech, They are only there for those who want additional flavor. They are also for an outdated version of the Tabletop and Roleplaying game rules.
An error you made: All mechs have two slots of sensors in the head, which are weightless.

Sensors are not weightless, they are included with the weight of the cockpit/sensors but can be hit seperately.

Egomane, on 02 March 2015 - 03:04 PM, said:

But getting back on those optional, but still official, MaxTech rules, an Ostscout or Raven would have sensor suits that are superior to most others. That alone should show that the OPs suggestion has no place in the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe. At least not in this way. In a gameplay sense they are also bad as they would once again only apply an advantage to the bigger mech, which already have superior armor and firepower, while the lighter mechs have speed and maneuverability. Now those lighter mechs would have to get even closer to the biggger mechs, where their speed and maneuverability become less and less a factor (unless you are good enought to manage to stay at the back of a bigger mech all the time). Sorry, misread the suggestion in the OP. I still believe it's a bad idea, but for other reasons I already saw reflected in previous posts.

Light mechs could actually scout... that would be a bad thing for the game? I don't understand why.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

I'd like to make variable sensor profiles for different mechs based on their size and role and as mentioned, megamek has a template that can be used as frame of reference with the goal being better gameplay for MWO.

Also, at most we probably should just share a ping on the radar, when a friendly gains a Target, basically what Seismic displays.

I mean that the red arrows, in the radar, showing the direction enemy legs are facing, the Paperdoll info update, the Magic Dorito with the Target Corners Bracketing and IFF Names over their heads is a lot to instantly be popping up so dynamically, and maybe should be limited for LOS on targets at most.

And since we can't see "Mad Cat" and other iconic monikers when a Timber or other Clan Mech pops up, I feel that we get information overload anyway, especially now with in-game titles appearing and adding an extra line!



So to be clear, having Teammate info is necessary and should be possible with sensors and transmitting IFF, I just feel we get too much clutter in the HUD when targeting the enemy.

So Targeting Info should be simplified some, I'd remove the Magic Doritos over head and use modified Target Corner Bracketing so that when an enemy is seen we see the thin lines, and when targeted they get bolded with the Paperdoll showing up.

Next I'd move the extra info like Names, Titles and Mech info off to the Paperdoll corner, so that the Target Corner Brackets only display the Target Letters A, B, C, AA, BB and so on.

This is also to help now that we have VOIP so we can focus on range, the Target call-out and map grid of the enemy

Hope I'm making sense here!

And here is a very crude mock-up:

Spoiler

---

Then as for Missiles, since the Magic Doritos should all disappear, IMHO; I'd love to have missiles track wherever the shooter is aiming with the crosshair / reticle. So the same for Long or Short range.

Artemis would modify how fast the missiles respond (course correction) to moving the crosshair / reticle around, so missile response would be faster with Artemis and is cancel-able by ECM and so on.

TAG could then be made to allow targets not in LOS of the shooter to be target-able by LRMs and having them be fire and forget or not would be a matter of balancing them after other tweaks such as adjusting missile speed and impulse values for example.

Then with Streaks, it would retain the Lock-On system with tweaks to be able to fire on any mech in LOS., and if you lose lock the missiles simply don't fire. And their SSRM bone targeting can remain in place or utilize the Missiles following the crosshair / reticle like non-Streaks based on how best to balance.

BAP and ECM accelerating / preventing the Paperdoll update should remain as-is with such changes; and then can be expanded upon for more in-depth Information Warfare.

[Brody319]

Dimento Graven, on 02 March 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

Interestingly enough the height differences for 'mechs for 'mechs was only a 'general rule of thumb' not a sacrosanct law.

First, based on Ral Patha figurines all at the 121:1(?) scale:



Next based off the Battlemech blue print posters you could purchase:

As you can see the Locust was a very tall, but very skinny 'mech...

I think I threw up a little...like more than I do when I see the Firemoth.