190 replies to this topic

[Curccu]

Soy, on 10 March 2015 - 05:13 AM, said:

Care to state a reason why? I like the build a lot too, it's the other one I like... third waaaaaaaaay down the list is 5(6)ML, 5(6)SL. Just cuz it's nice to switch up the firing cadence, mix in a diff wep; change of pace...

Well mostly because I can make it work pretty good for a nova, little extra range and heatless internal ripping machineguns... and I know "little extra range" and machineguns doesn't synergize well

[Soy]

That extra lil 100m shouldn't be understated, that's the difference of a proper backpedal or dipping out 1-2 secs earlier when they smell a mech like this before you pounce.

That's the main benefit I see to it, tbh.

[Mcgral18]

Curccu, on 10 March 2015 - 05:29 AM, said:

Well mostly because I can make it work pretty good for a nova, little extra range and heatless internal ripping machineguns... and I know "little extra range" and machineguns doesn't synergize well

MGs are mainly tonnage filler, unless you want to sacrifice LAAs. My straight up 12 ERSL has an AP because there isn't enough crit slots left unless you take the precious arm actuation. The MGs also take up that half ton, which in my case was either an ERSL, or stripped head armour.

If they ever get un-nerfed they might be a bit better, but they're better than two heatsinks, in my opinion.

[Lily from animove]

Mcgral18, on 10 March 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

I swapped back to 12 ERSLs, I do prefer it. It packs a few more DHS while maintaining the MGs. 450M max rather than 370M.
Only one 1k+ match last night, but I'll take it.

I still highly recommend a TC1 for every Nova build.

It's nice to have them when you're at 90% heat, but it's true that they can get you killed. Use responsibly.


Also facetanked a DakkaWhale and won...only to be finished off by a Enforcer. So shameful.



That's 12 SPLs; 10 is only 46.2 heat.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

But honestly, you won vs a dakkawolf, do you think it was your good work, or him failing hard? What dakkawolf is not able to take down a nova in a 2 or 3 alphas or at leats 5-6 secs? Must be a real bad pilot or build.

And thats the issue nova is extremely unreliable, because opponents that know what they do detsroy you nearly instant, They don't let you go into position in a 12 S(P)L Nova, because they know what threat it is there. Solo queue otherwise, there you can be good quite often, but is that you being good or that 79dmg TBR pilot just derp?

The problem of the nova is time to exposure mixed with oversized hitboxes, any skilled player will between appearing and firing have tme to react to a novas appearence. And if he has some aim he will retailiate enough damage to cripple you to uselessness. To our luck in the pug queue many people just don't knwo what they do, which is strange because even on higher elos this exists even in pugland.

@Soy we can make some groupdrops in the Nova, maybe next week, the planet explorer addiction is still extremely present xD

I don't want to see any heat tweaks for the Nova, the damage the mech is able to do is fine, given you have some trigger discipline. But it definately needs soem hp buffs.
I mean cmon the dragon has similar, if not even better hitboxes, and it received massive HP buffs for its hitboxes.
so +15 to arms and ST, and +20 to CT is not too much, it will just make the nova not fall apart instantly vs. somehow competent players. Simply compare all IS mechs having reveiced HP buffs, by their hotboxes on those locations vs the Nova locations you just wanna cry when you see what got which buffs while the nova is just 2x more worse in shape. Then some acceleration/decelleration quirks maybe 10%. No seepd quirk. This would help cornerpopping.

And the difference between a competent palyer and not? Well the competent player has his 50+ alphas that hit you, the other gamers come with their 40+ alphas and just still miss you in the fattest medium around. Competent palyers are those that snipe your torso off nearly instant. And they do this just twice and your mech is gone. All these things is what other mediums can prevent by your piloting skills. Nova is good when the opponent ignores you, but so is any other medium.

I would like to see the endscore screens on the matches your footage is taken off, simply to see what the other pilots did.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 March 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Mechteric]

Soy, on 09 March 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Take a couple minutes; I took a few hours to make this video so the least you can do is take a few extra seconds to really make your statement meaningful.

I watched the video, it wasn't worth the few hours making it.

But then again I hate things that are obnoxious. Get off my lawn, etc.

[Satan n stuff]

reddevil, on 09 March 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

BTW, is it a good idea to run T-Comp 1 on a Nova?

Yes, if it's reasonably doable you'll want one on just about any clan mech, and the Mk1 is by far the most weight efficient TC so if you can spare a ton go for it.

[WintermuteOmega]

Loved my Nova until the 6 MLas Ghost-Heat hit it hard. Drove around with 5+1 more DHS, but alas, it was never the same.
Looked at my stats and having a K/D of 2.37 (which, i must admit is a good chunck above my average) and average Damage of 383 i am actually amazed i haven't played with my Nova that much anymore.

Ah, goes all with always getting new toys and forgetting about the good old gold standard i used to play with.

I think, for all it's flaws, it still can be a nice mech with heavy damage output and nice ways to sneak behind mechs and core them.

[Ultimax]

WintermuteOmega, on 10 March 2015 - 06:49 AM, said:

Loved my Nova until the 6 MLas Ghost-Heat hit it hard. Drove around with 5+1 more DHS, but alas, it was never the same.

6 CERMLAS do not have any ghost heat penalties.


You are firing the rough equivalent of 4.67 IS LLAS (except they actually do have Ghost heat), that's why it's hot.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 10 March 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Also, getting a bit closer in the analytics of your compilation.

the firts is I hate compilations because they show hardly the truth, only the good moment which is nothing. Especialyl when the mech shot at is not locked, because you don't even know the hp situation of him, some one shots may not even be true oneshots.

The fist scene:
all these guys are so done already, EVERY other mech could have done this in this situation. This is truly not a "nova is good example" Still an epic moment in a pilots life gettign 3 kills in such a short time. But not nova related.

a yellow cored nova ont he citadell. Thats a free kill given someone is not blind on the other end. Instead you do again kill some already cored guys. Not a Nova thingy juts a derp opponents and a nice sictuation thingy.

Assasin technique is the same, nearly any other mech can obliteate poeple like this its not even the nova again doing so. Especially lights that behave like that inable to recognize a ginat nova next to them. Situational awarenss done horribly wrong. I mean is that the living elo hell you are opposed to? That timber on crimson ROFL. some people are really amazing when it comes to have the worst placement. Allt he assasinatiosn where mostly done in situations where you had sitting ducks next to you, and honetsly other mechs could have done this there.

Starting the samurai technique on a red cored opponents is not that impressive, a facetanking of a direwolf fresh, would have been.

Some people elft your compliation early, mostly because we do not see any "nova" gameplay at this moment, all we see is a series of standard situations everyone has and where every mech would have gotten out with equal result. Too many red core kills in the footage, I miss "true nova" own things. The only one I have seen was the enforcer in viridion bog, but hy a medium not twisting, thats really a smart opponent again.

The No scoping: wow the guy you shot his already red leg off, took what? 1 real damage at all, the reason he dies is the AC of the mehc next to you ripping off his healthy leg like 0,01s before. Thats not cool, and again nothing "special"


And I don't like the "fire 2x 12SPL" within one heatscale thing. 3,75seconds (without modules) to throw out 144 dmg is anyways a strange design gap that should not exist. This is a borderline desing flaw niche in my opinion.
What do you think will ever happen when the scr would get the variant with the 6 E in the other arm? then you will see SCR's doing this.

8:15 vs the adder was probably the only rea fight, but then it was vs a laseradder.
tha battle at 9:00 somehow interesting, given someone is still watching the vid at this point. But your opponent there, SPL, FS9, does he even aim?

So you video in total shows how to finish mechs or instakill them from behind. That si what every mech can.nothing special about the Nova. Would be different if you would have us shown how you use the JJ's and stuff to get there. But given the nature of the compilation and what i saw, I just guess it has been more randomness that caused these situations to happen.

The best part is actually how you were stick on the SCR XD that was kinda amazing

Still Episode 19 was way better showing Nova gameplay in the beginning in HPG. and at 7:50. at rivercity and the followin forest colony scene.

But the Ep 20 is just a kill compliation. This kind of compilation could be done with many other mechs as well. It's Not bad for a killcompilation, Some cool kills in it, but not really a judgement about the Nova, even less given that it is entirely about 12 Short lasers.

[0bsidion]

As someone recently pointed out to me, doing good in a mech isn't the same thing as a good mech. I get it though, I fell into the same trap. Sometimes we just really click with a certain mech and barring bad luck or bad decisions, we can make it do wonderful things. It might not be instant, like me struggling a bit and finally finding a build that works for me with the Warhawk and Hellbringer. But once I got there and started making them work for me, I was thrown for a loop when people complained about those mechs and saying how bad they were. I get kills with them, and have had some pretty solid games with them both. But they aren't without their flaws.

No one is saying the Nova can't kill anything. Clearly it can. The issue is that the Cons outweigh the Pros for this particular mech. I don't feel a need to reiterate the problems with the Nova, that horse has been beat to death. But kudos for you for being able to make a bad mech seem to shine. I do find it funny that in practically every clip your Nova's CT has been stripped of armor and one strong breeze away from being cored, which highlights one of the big complaints against it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 09 March 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

I've constantly read a bunch of comments since returning to MWO about how the Nova sucks.

http://youtu.be/Ie2ZkNykXpM



Please summarize an argument about why the Nova sucks. Please frame your argument in a clear and concise statement. Take a couple minutes; I took a few hours to make this video so the least you can do is take a few extra seconds to really make your statement meaningful.

I have issues with Nova as well, but I'd rather hear people break it down critically from the other side of the fence.

So far the one person who previewed this video said the argument revolves principally around "the Nova, and that build, suck... you're just good". I don't believe that be entirely true. What say you?

Video is not a peenstroke, it's supposed to be showing how even one simple weapon can allow for lots of somewhat-feasible variety in play on a 'bad' mech. Yes, we all know, in a 12 man poking at 400 tons staring back at you will instantly ruin this mech, we get it. If that's your entire 'argument' then it'll be duly noted.

Ultimatum X, on 09 March 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

I think "sucks" is a stretch.

Good Points:

> Access to clan energy weapons - some of the most tonnage efficient weapons in the game
> JJs - even if you have to take 5 of them (2.5 tons)
> Torso mounted energy (finally one for each torso)
> Plenty of energy hardpoints
> Can run asymmetric builds

Bad Points:

> Model is way too large and wide - especially the arms where your weapons will often be
> Lost the "stock build" options lotto with no weigh savings
> Engine isn't terrible, but could be larger
> Arms are low slung, but at least slightly mitigated by the torso mounts (Unlike Mr. Gargles)

I would add to the Cons:
-Generally Runs too hot, thanks to global clan laser heat nerfs brought on by Mr TBR, SCR and DWF. Was a time you could legit run the Nova-S stock and not e shut down every 10 seconds in a furball.
-Limited weapons tonnage severely curtails non laser options, thus exacerbating the heat issue/forcing it into a limited number of viable builds.
-Related to size/width: No mech in the game has easier to pick and choose hitboxes. I can hit any location I want, on a Nova, from dang near any angle, no matter what the pilot does, aside from ducking behind cover. Arms are too easy to hit. Side Torsos are too easy to hit. CT is too easy to Hit. Legs. I honestly haven't even bothered with the Head.
-Poor Speed/Agility for class. Admittedly, subjective, but it FEELS like an upper end Heavy, or low end Assault, even compared to other Medium Mechs I run the same speed and JJs on like Griffins, Shadowhawks, Wolverines and Enforcers.

I think the "Pros" have been largely summarized.

And this doubly bugs me, as the Nova was always my favorite Clan Medium.... and the Summoner my favorite Heavy. For them both to be so bad/limited, really sucks for me.

So, yes, like many mechs, in Solo queue, it's effectiveness will depend on the quality of pilot, vs quality of opposition. In Group Queues, mechs like the Nova do wget weeded out. The bigger issue for me, with the Nova or the Summoner, is there is really no good reason for me to choose either over another Clan Mech in their own weight class. (Or several IS chassis, for that matter)

In solo queue, with near equal pilots, the Nova will usually be inferior to: (particularly if one prefers tactics other than Poptarting)
Centurion, Hunchback, Shadowhawk, Storm Crow, Wolverine, GRF-3M, 1 or 2 Kintaro, and while more subjective, I will almost always do better in a Vindicator (I prefer my dual PPC 1R as a poptart) or Enforcer, too. And likely, the Shadow Cat.

While the Summoner is flat outperformed by:
Timber Wolf, Hellbringer, Mad Dog, (probably) Cauldron Born, CTF-3D, Ilya Muromets, Boom And Gauss Jagers, Jesters, Thunderbolts, DRG-1N, and I would not be shocked if the Grasshopper is a more useful and consistent performer.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2015 - 09:59 AM.

[Soy]

@ CapperDeluxe - it's actually making fun of being obnoxious. It's making fun of myself.. That's what it's poking fun of. I never once spoke in the video or tried to be condescending. The first 2 "MLG" clips make fun of that ****. Can't win with you people, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Whatever dude.

-----

@ Lily I read your entire post, a whole page, then realized you just typed up all this and talk about how I'm using 12 Small Lasers. ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wtf

What? I swear I could put up a picture that says "this is not a pipe" and people could type of a page about how they think it's a pipe...

It's not about special shots. It's not even a compilation...

It's about approaching a weapon that people think is one-dimensional, and a mech that people think has nothing special about it, and showing that they both have unique aspects. If you think Nova does nothing different than the Crow you're crazy.

Lily from animove, on 10 March 2015 - 07:51 AM, said:

But not nova related.

A crow can't poptart or pounce like that, come on now. It's built to boulder rock from med......

A lot of the footage is standard 5 kills on an unchecked flank, etc... I can sit here and just chain 5 rounds like that in a row and put it into a video but nobody wants to watch a 45 minute video. I'm not a streamer, either.

I played this mech in a legit quality group last night and it held its own against 12 mans, etc. I played it a lot more cautious but I only died twice, one time being my fault. So in fact that confirmed to me that it's underrepresented. Apparently in 4 mans it's a assblaster, too.

-----

@ Bishop - I'll duel anyone in a Cent, Hunch, SHawk, Crow, Wolv, Grif, or Kintaro(lolwtf?!) and wreck them in this build, of course you got the top players would could get in something better and smoke the Nova all day but I'm just sayin. I don't worry about those mechs when I see em, unless they're packign 30+ SRMs and are a total deadeye with AC20. I'd say the one thing I don't want to fight is a LL Stalker. Anything that can stand still for more than 5-10 seconds, attempt to maintain range, and just put melt on you... that's a hard thing to close gap on with enough armor left to just box it down fast (particularly late in rounds)... this goes for any 'big laser' boat.

Edited by Soy, 10 March 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[Kain Demos]

Ran into you last night on alpine--ironically I was in a "Super Nova".

[Soy]

Kain Thul, on 10 March 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

Ran into you last night on alpine--ironically I was in a "Super Nova".

Yeah I went AFK like 45 secs into that round searching for a lighter, the crew I was with I figured I didn't even need to do anything if I didn't want to. I think I sat down and the last guy died right then, your crew was playin well too it appeared.

Anyways tryin to stay as much on topic here, thx for that dynamite drop in tho. xD

[Kain Demos]

Soy, on 10 March 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:

Yeah I went AFK like 45 secs into that round searching for a lighter, the crew I was with I figured I didn't even need to do anything if I didn't want to. I think I sat down and the last guy died right then, your crew was playin well too it appeared.

Anyways tryin to stay as much on topic here, thx for that dynamite drop in tho. xD

I only brought it up because I thought it was funny that Alpine is considered to be a **** map for SPL and there we were. My Gargoyle had 12 SPL and 24 DHS but I was still able to put them to use. Kind of like your Nova project the three of us were running Gargoyles last night boating SPLs and playing aggressively and we carried way more often than we lost.

[Soy]

I think a cSPL Gargoyle can be a pain in the ass. Maybe one of the only Gargoyles like that?

People need to respect cSPL. This **** is mean.

Also I too struggled feely comfy on Alpine as well, but, it's all just a matter of developing that comfort level regardless of how far/close enemy is, how many, how much exposure, etc... just work through it and you'll be better after the fact.

Something I mentioned last night with a friend was that, I think people look at a glass cannon that only uses arms, and I hate to play armchair psychologist but... I think a lot of those people who look down on the Nova or are skeptical, are really uncomfortable with losing an arm early on to some random potshot, and then having to play the whole round 'at half power'. I think a lot of people shy away from mechs that can put them behind the 8ball like that. Conversely, there are people who get off on that type of stuff (think zombie cents etc).

[Bishop Steiner]

Soy, on 10 March 2015 - 01:13 PM, said:

@ Bishop - I'll duel anyone in a Cent, Hunch, SHawk, Crow, Wolv, Grif, or Kintaro(lolwtf?!) and wreck them in this build, of course you got the top players would could get in something better and smoke the Nova all day but I'm just sayin. I don't worry about those mechs when I see em, unless they're packign 30+ SRMs and are a total deadeye with AC20. I'd say the one thing I don't want to fight is a LL Stalker. Anything that can stand still for more than 5-10 seconds, attempt to maintain range, and just put melt on you... that's a hard thing to close gap on with enough armor left to just box it down fast (particularly late in rounds)... this goes for any 'big laser' boat.

Pretty sure I mentioned equal skill levels. (or approximate). I can farm players worse than myself in all kinds of Meta-Cheese from my lowly Vindicator. Doesn't mean the VND is an especially good mech, especially for John Q. Public.

But like the Nova, used right by someone who understands the chassis? It can hit way harder and more effectively, at least in the Solo Queues, or against mixed Elo group drops, than one would expect.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 March 2015 - 01:39 PM.

[Soy]

Sure but even then, if I open up they're in a deep hole given the burst on this. If they open up and take an arm, that's probably game. I think you should consider this mech critically from a 1 v 1 perspective. Seriously, just think about it.

I love me a Vindy, if I played IS I'd run them. They are similar in the sense that you're too slow and unwieldy to be a true light, and too damn weak to be a brawler medium. So it does poptarting well imo.

I definitely think people suspect a Nova to alpha twice and shut down, The reaction people give up close is usually "oh ima **** this guy u- oh ****... wtf... wth?" Just going by their torso twisting to backpedal move 80% of time.

[RedDevil]

Soy, on 10 March 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

I think a cSPL Gargoyle can be a pain in the ass. Maybe one of the only Gargoyles like that?

People need to respect cSPL. This **** is mean.

I wonder how the Infinity Gauntlet Executioner will do loaded with 7E on that right arm alone....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 March 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

While the Summoner is flat outperformed by:
Timber Wolf, Hellbringer, and possibly the Cauldron Born.

Not that I fully agree with GMan's ranking, but considering he is part of the competitive scene (meaning his credibility in judging performance is a little higher), I figured I'd use his tier list as a guide against your list of "flat outperformers"

According the GMan, the Summoner is tier 2 in all 3 range brackets which it shares with the best IS heavies. The only heavies higher than it are clan heavies with the Mad Dog being only on par with Summoner at short range (because it is the worst clan heavy).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 10 March 2015 - 01:48 PM.