716 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

EvilCow, on 18 March 2015 - 05:54 AM, said:

This 20% speed reduction should have been implemented since beginning, nobody would have complained.

True

Gyrok, on 18 March 2015 - 05:56 AM, said:

lolwut?

Human narrowness - if i gave you 20 bucks - and take it from you 5min later - you are as poor/rich as before but you are more unhappy.

if engine criticals would have been part of the game from day one - all those complains would not have existed

[Widowmaker1981]

Karl Streiger, on 18 March 2015 - 05:48 AM, said:

Simple - Edit Profile - Ignore Settings

Anyhow - if words hurt you than you should take this cheap leassons in temper controll.

Because - i don't get angry about your signature either

Thanks, i assumed it would be via clicking on the profile of the person you wanted to ignore, not your own one. Done and sorted.

And getting angry and losing ones temper are too entirely different things. I dont think ive lost my temper once in the last 20 years

(and while this is a Battletech based game, rulesets designed for a turn based RNG fueled (dice = RNG) board game cannot be translated to a real time first person shooter with any fidelity, they simply dont make sense in that environment, hence the signature. Its not a dig at the board game)

[Karl Streiger]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 March 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

(and while this is a Battletech based game, rulesets designed for a turn based RNG fueled (dice = RNG) board game cannot be translated to a real time first person shooter with any fidelity, they simply dont make sense in that environment, hence the signature. Its not a dig at the board game)

in this case I'm sure we have almost the same opinion. (sure the ways are different) - but i will keep my prepped chain-shot for the next to trip the wire

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 18 March 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

True


Human narrowness - if i gave you 20 bucks - and take it from you 5min later - you are as poor/rich as before but you are more unhappy.

if engine criticals would have been part of the game from day one - all those complains would not have existed

Since beta? Sure...

However, if Clans had it and IS did not, people would still be furious over this...

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Gyrok, on 17 March 2015 - 05:39 AM, said:

Instead of nerfing clans into oblivion (shades of the victor nerf back in the day) and offering single digit quirks as a consolation prize...I have a suggestion, please hear me out.

I think that rather than piss off a large number of the people playing clans, why not bring in the LFEs (http://www.sarna.net..._Engine_-_Light) for the IS?

This would basically stop all the crying about engines, it would also have to come with some drawbacks as well. Quirks on the IS side would need to be adjusted, heavily, without doubt. However, this offers an option that allows mechs to be on roughly equal footing. As the timeline advances, this tech would come about in the primary wave of IS Omnimechs anyway, so why not offer it as an available option now?

I think the way this should work would be that if you equip a LFE into your battlemech, you should have the endo/ferro slots locked. For the sake of grins and giggles, you can turn those off/on, but you cannot dictate where the slots are taken up. That way, you get a pseudo-omnimech that would allow IS to have similar functionality choice versus the Clans (which would still be unable to change engines, at all...).

Thoughts?

I think if they brought in those engines, then they should limit the engine to stock size and speed . I think my biggest complaint about this game is that IS mechs have this magical range of engines they can throw into their mechs. If PGI got rid of this then everything would balance itself out.

I understand Engines were part of the Time Sink PGI put in to give players something to work towards in the past for grinding... but times have changed. There's more mechs, more modules and weapons to buy, the engine issue really does need to be addressed and overhauled on IS side.

You can't preach balance when IS can change parts that Clan can't, or cherry-pick "lore" when it's convenient.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 18 March 2015 - 06:23 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Gyrok, on 18 March 2015 - 06:17 AM, said:

Since beta? Sure...

However, if Clans had it and IS did not, people would still be furious over this...

look its like in the game - somebody has to be the first in the breach. Maybe the first two weaks/months after that fix would be interesting - but if the drawback is as huge as you fear - they will give balance stuff out - for example with quirks

[CyclonerM]

Widowmaker1981, on 18 March 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

(and while this is a Battletech based game, rulesets designed for a turn based RNG fueled (dice = RNG) board game cannot be translated to a real time first person shooter with any fidelity, they simply dont make sense in that environment, hence the signature. Its not a dig at the board game)

Trust me, there is a way to do anything, it is just a matter of liking it or not

[Gyrok]

Karl Streiger, on 18 March 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

look its like in the game - somebody has to be the first in the breach. Maybe the first two weaks/months after that fix would be interesting - but if the drawback is as huge as you fear - they will give balance stuff out - for example with quirks

Like they did with the victor and highlander...right? I think that might...oh...wait...those are still screwed over a year later...nevermind.

[GroxGlitch]

Karl Streiger, on 18 March 2015 - 06:27 AM, said:

look its like in the game - somebody has to be the first in the breach. Maybe the first two weaks/months after that fix would be interesting - but if the drawback is as huge as you fear - they will give balance stuff out - for example with quirks

No doubt they'd try. How effective or successful said balance would be is an entirely different issue. I, personally, have little confidence in PGI getting it right. The past has been nothing but band-**** and overly complicated hodge-podges such as ghost heat, Gauss charge delay, and so on, and nothing much has really changed in that regard.

I agree that it's already in and we can work with it, not much choice in that manner. That's not really the point though. As I joked about in my brick, they keep hitting us with the nerf hammer without throwing us a bone. The rate they're going, PGI is content to screw us collectively over and not give a flying you-know-what if the results are less than acceptable so long as the IS player base is content, which IIRC is substantially larger (don't quote me on that, though, as I'm not entirely sure).

Something has to give. This is why I back the IS Light Engine suggestion so whole-heartedly it. Here's just some advantages I thought of off the top of my head:
-Allows us Clan players to keep our Clan XL Engines the way they are, which some are already dissatisfied with.
-Gives Inner Sphere players even more build variety (As a former IS light pilot, I could see LFE's being extremely viable on lights such as a Jenner; offers an excellent compromise between free tonnage (aka firepower) and survivability).
-If I recall correctly, LFE's are also a middle point in price between XL's and Standards. This means the new IS player on a budget can get something into his BattleMech that isn't a Standard and become a little more competetive. This helps the new player experience as well, and sets up a sort of Standard -> LFE -> XLFE 'progression', though some chassi/builds will usually be more viable with one of the three in particular.

Honestly, I don't see a downside. Everybody wins! Because let's be frank, if you take a ST out on any Clan omni, including the oh-so-dreaded Timberwolf, the loss of ~50% of the firepower and a heat management hit as well already does enough damage. Sure we're not dead, but we're pretty damn close, and that heat impairment makes our already-hot mechs pretty much spontaneously combust.

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to be an authority nor do I say that I have the answer. I would honestly love to debate the point.

Edited by GroxGlitch, 18 March 2015 - 02:49 PM.

[Johnny Z]

GroxGlitch, on 18 March 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

No doubt they'd try. How effective or successful said balance would be is an entirely different issue. I, personally, have little confidence in PGI getting it right. The past has been nothing but band-**** and overly complicated hodge-podges such as ghost heat, Gauss charge delay, and so on, and nothing much has really changed in that regard.

I agree that it's already in and we can work with it, not much choice in that manner. That's not really the point though. As I joked about in my brick, they keep hitting us with the nerf hammer without throwing us a bone. The rate they're going, PGI is content to screw us collectively over and not give a flying you-know-what if the results are less than acceptable so long as the IS player base is content, which IIRC is substantially larger (don't quote me on that, though, as I'm not entirely sure).

Something has to give. This is why I back the IS Light Engine suggestion so whole-heartedly it. Here's just some advantages I thought of off the top of my head:
-Allows us Clan players to keep our Clan XL Engines the way they are, which some are already dissatisfied with.
-Gives Inner Sphere players even more build variety (As a former IS light pilot, I could see LFE's being extremely viable on lights such as a Jenner; offers an excellent compromise between free tonnage (aka firepower) and survivability).
-If I recall correctly, LFE's are also a middle point in price between XL's and Standards. This means the new IS player on a budget can get something into his BattleMech that isn't a Standard and become a little more competetive. This helps the new player experience as well, and sets up a sort of Standard -> LFE -> XLFE 'progression', though some chassi/builds will usually be more viable with one of the three in particular.

Honestly, I don't see a downside. Everybody wins! Because let's be frank, if you take a ST out on any Clan omni, including the oh-so-dreaded Timberwolf, the loss of ~50% of the firepower and a heat management hit as well already does enough damage. Sure we're not dead, but we're pretty damn close, and that heat impairment makes our already-hot mechs pretty much spontaneously combust.

Disclaimer: I'm not claiming to be an authority nor do I say that I have the answer. I would honestly love to debate the point.

First looking at this subject, the light fusion engine appeared to be the best way to go. But for various balance problems the "nerf omni xl slightly and buff IS engines slightly" is the better way to go.

This has to do with the balance between the two techs and also the base rushes on the star map.

LFE will bring IS mechs more towards the speed and durability of Omni mechs. A direction that really hasnt improved game play. Mechs are huge machines and the IS mechs portrai that alot better.

Edited by Johnny Z, 18 March 2015 - 03:24 PM.

[Gyrok]

Johnny Z, on 18 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

First looking at this subject, the light fusion engine appeared to be the best way to go. But for various balance problems the "nerf omni xl slightly and buff IS engines slightly" is the better way to go.

This has to do with the balance between the two techs and also the base rushes on the star map.

The LFE would somewhat supplant the STD engine in some builds, I could see niche cases where zombie mechs wants the STD engine for the raw zombie factor. I could also see scenarios where the XL engine is outright more appealing for mechs that are trying to get as much speed as possible (lights, and perhaps, some mediums, or even some heavies trying to squeeze every bit of tonnage).

[Johnny Z]

Changed above reply to add the best reason the Omni engine should move towards the IS engine rather than vice versa. The SIM demands some kind of Large machine machanics/simulation in game.

[Uncl Munkeh]

What's the complaint about the Clan mechs if all battles were clan vs inner sphere (pre quirk) and all pug matches were 10 IS vs 12 Clan

and all team matches were bids for win by weight and/or count.

Oh, wait, someone's always gonna complain.

[GroxGlitch]

Johnny Z, on 18 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

First looking at this subject, the light fusion engine appeared to be the best way to go. But for various balance problems the "nerf omni xl slightly and buff IS engines slightly" is the better way to go.

This has to do with the balance between the two techs and also the base rushes on the star map.

LFE will bring IS mechs more towards the speed and durability of Omni mechs. A direction that really hasnt improved game play. Mechs are huge machines and the IS mechs portrai that alot better.

Care to elaborate on what exactly said 'balance issues' are?

EDIT: Wait, hold up a second, BUFF Inner Sphere Engines!?
What in the blazes for?
They're fine as it is, they don't need a buff. This system has been working more or less effectively since Closed Beta.
The only issue here is the Clan XLs potentially being too good.

Edited by GroxGlitch, 18 March 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Uncl Munkeh]

Johnny Z, on 18 March 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

First looking at this subject, the light fusion engine appeared to be the best way to go. But for various balance problems the "nerf omni xl slightly and buff IS engines slightly" is the better way to go.

Why do I see Sam Kinnison screaming at the screen when everyone talks about general nerfs or buffs?

The point of the quirks is to fine tune the designs. If there were a statistical reason to make a change, to bring another mech into play more frequently or something, cool...

But, general changes affect the worst mechs WAY more than they affect the better mechs. So, they invented the quirk.

[Yokaiko]

If clan XLs are so overpowered



Explain that.

[Pjwned]

Kmieciu, on 18 March 2015 - 12:27 AM, said:

Either implement engine critical hit for all mechs, or none.

It's already partially implemented with IS mechs dying when their ST is lost with an XL engine, so how is it fair that clan mechs get away with barely any penalty when they lose 20% of their engine?

Yokaiko, on 18 March 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

If clan XLs are so overpowered

Spoiler

Explain that.

You're right, if an organized Inner Sphere group barely wins against a PUG clan team there's obviously something wrong since IS should never win ever.

Edited by Pjwned, 18 March 2015 - 04:27 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Yokaiko, on 18 March 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

If clan XLs are so overpowered



Explain that.

Ok, 6 man team, possibly 8 man with trainees, on a pug with a 2 man, and possibly 3 randoms vs 10 random guys and a 2 man team. Not exactly an unlikely outcome in that situation, the opposite happens to if that 6 or 8 man sucks, you guys don't seem to suck, but the damage scores look a little close for comfort

[Yokaiko]

Pjwned, on 18 March 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

It's already partially implemented with IS mechs dying when their ST is lost with an XL engine, so how is it fair that clan mechs get away with barely any penalty when they lose 20% of their engine?



You're right, if an organized Inner Sphere group barely wins against a PUG clan team there's obviously something wrong since IS should never win ever.

6 man, we weren't with the rest it was just an HK only corridor.

Edited by Yokaiko, 18 March 2015 - 04:47 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Someone doesn't want his broken Mech's nerfed, however I don't agree with the way they are thinking of doing it, as it hurts more Mech's then it does fix. Reduce damage on ER ML from 7 to 5.75 and desync Clan LPL's by increasing the CD on the base value as well as a bit of an increase on the CD module for it. Clan weapons are in my mind, more of a problem then the chassis themselves that many people feel are the issue. If people want to argue that fact, well look at what will happen when the Ebon Jaguar lands, we will have another extremely powerful Clan Mech that has the tonnage to pack a crap load of good weapons. I think they should address Clan weapons before nerfing the chassis, because I think a mixture of both is a problem more than just the Mech's. Balance the ER ML, Clan LPL and Clan Streak 4's and 6's, then you start looking at whether the Mech's are still a problem, which I don't feel they are the true cause of the imbalance, they just amplify the strength of Clan weapons.

Also, Clan Ultra AC's are the most worthless weapons for the majority of Clan chassis because their damage capability is inferior to the IS Ultra 5 and even standard IS AC's. Maybe making them better will make them more used instead of pure laser vomit builds, but I don't know if that is possible without making them single shot with the double tap capability like IS UAC5's. They only work on the Dire Wolf because you can boat 5 or 6 of them with relative ease and it pretty much peels armor off your targets by the ton when you get a full volley on a component.

Edited by Drunk Canuck, 18 March 2015 - 05:16 PM.