176 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

The problem with the 4N is that it weighs 10 tons more than a Timberwolf and that's what the IS needs to counter the Timberwolf Clan mech.

[jlawsl]

Nathan K, on 29 April 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

True. Some have 3Fs, some have 3Hs, some have 5Ms...

I had one stalker, sold it. I guess I already had my favorite IS energy mech, the AWS series. I had played the AWS for such a long time, I got used to the things great torso twist and its flexible arms. The Stalker threw me for a loop. I was used to aiming at a different angle. Same goes for my King Crab's energy and missile points. Point is, not everyone has a stalker. If you run into a 12 man stalker team, they either had and finally used or bought the mechs specifically for the current "meta". Just like I doubt all or even a few clan players bought all of their copies of timberwolves and stormcrows with c bills.

Yes the IS has more mech models to choose from, but only a few that can play in the linear combat environment imposed by CW.

[Uncle Totty]

jlawsl, on 29 April 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

I had one stalker, sold it. I guess I already had my favorite IS energy mech, the AWS series. I had played the AWS for such a long time, I got used to the things great torso twist and its flexible arms. The Stalker threw me for a loop. I was used to aiming at a different angle. Same goes for my King Crab's energy and missile points. Point is, not everyone has a stalker. If you run into a 12 man stalker team, they either had and finally used or bought the mechs specifically for the current "meta". Just like I doubt all or even a few clan players bought all of their copies of timberwolves and stormcrows with c bills.

Yes the IS has more mech models to choose from, but only a few that can play in the linear combat environment imposed by CW.

Same can be said for Clan Mechs.

[Lyoto Machida]

Nathan K, on 29 April 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

True. Some have 3Fs, some have 3Hs, some have 5Ms...

I think the 4N is the one I don't have...used to be terrible. I like the 3F for the twist range.

[Lily from animove]

because STD engine.

The stalker can tank massive damage and live past the 2 ST's beign destroyed. sure, without ST's it cna not kill anymore, yet he cna still lock targets, block ways, and in the counter attakc mode, you still ahve to spend time destroying it.


because LOTS high mounted hardpoints

The key on many maps is hillhumping and revealing as less mech as possible for as short as possible by dishing out as much damage as possible. The STK is just the masterrace when it comes to this. Because both, cockpit AND wapons are vey high mounted. And especially fighing vs clans with long beamdurations, this allows the usual laservomit to not even deliver the entire shot into the mech.

Ultimatum X, on 29 April 2015 - 05:47 AM, said:

Yes. Two whole, entire, points of damage – for the cost of SIX extra tons of weapons.

I think if one mech spends 30 tons on lasers and another mech spends 24 tons on lasers, that the mech that spent 30 tons doing an extra 2 points of damage is getting the worse deal.


0.12s of burn time, for an extra 90M range. Seems fair.










Smurfy's says 79.80 heat for 6x LLAS.






6x LLAS = 79.80 heat
79.80 - 20% (15.96) = 63.84 heat

How did you arrive at 33.6 heat?




SO to recap:


WHK
* Alpha hit 64% heat cap
* 10 to 10.5s to cool to 0% after alpha

STK-4N:
* Alpha hit 72% heat cap
* 13 to 13.5s to cool to 0% after alpha
(You can confirm these numbers if you watch my testing videos).


The Warhawk has 28 DHS, and the Stalker has 20 DHS.

The means the WHK has a higher heat cap, and also cools off faster.





Even when firing "half volleys" where the Stalker's quirks have the best impact (27 damage for 16.8 heat) the Warhawk's higher heat capacity & faster cooling allows it to keep pace.

Sry but I heavily have to disagree, this is high theoretical science and raw number,s but does not reflect the real combat situation.

If you use the stalker right, he will land the entire beamduration easily on the opponent mech, and disappear, while a clanemch can not. This in return means, from the higher possible damage the clanner has, most wents into the thin air. But the heat for this non hitting lasers still stays.

The Stalker here has the upper hand over the WHK because combat dynamic and sitations favour the STK characteristics better than the WHK. STK cna hit the ST's of a WHK while the WHK can not even draw a line of fire. What else does one actually need for being superior?

[Curccu]

ILikePeaches, on 29 April 2015 - 03:26 PM, said:

And not every IS player has a 4N. What's your point? All I hear is clanners complaining that their heavy mech can't trade 1v1 with an IS assault that is specifically designed to trade lasers at range. You can always dump LRMs on the stalkers.

$23.00 vs 7,412,420 C-Bills
GTFO if you bring LRMs into this discussion, more you bring LRMs more likely enemy team wins (unless it's full of incompetent bugs).

CygnusX7, on 29 April 2015 - 11:20 AM, said:

C ER-ML 7 damage, 6 heat, 3 cool down, 405 range, 1 ton, 1.15 duration
IS LLaser 9 damage, 7 heat, 3.25 cooldown, 450 range, 5 tons, 1.00 duration.
C LPL 13 damage, 7 heat, 3.25 cool down, 365 range, 7 tons .67 duration.

^ That is not cLPL, almost like IS LPL but not quite... too high dmg
cLPL 13 dmg, 10 heat, 3.25 CD, 600 range, 1.12 duration

[Roadbuster]

Set ghost heat for IS LL back to start at 2 instead of 3.

I think this would help as a first step.
The next step would be dropping weapon specific quirks and buffing/nerfing the weapon itself instead.

But, who cares?

[Blood Rose]

Nathan K, on 29 April 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

True. Some have 3Fs, some have 3Hs, some have 5Ms...

And many have never owned a Stalker ever. My dropdeck Assault is my Awesome 8Q which I run with a stock loadout.

Quit bitching on about something and learn to counter it.

[Widowmaker1981]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2015 - 02:37 AM, said:

And many have never owned a Stalker ever. My dropdeck Assault is my Awesome 8Q which I run with a stock loadout.

Quit bitching on about something and learn to counter it.

Really? Stock? Really?

Single Heatsinks, 1 Small Laser, no Endo Steel? are you sure?

Because if so you might want to visit the mechlab before your next drop and fix that, since you are a massive handicap to your team like that.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 April 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Really? Stock? Really?

Single Heatsinks, 1 Small Laser, no Endo Steel? are you sure?

Because if so you might want to visit the mechlab before your next drop and fix that, since you are a massive handicap to your team like that.

Oddly, its the one stock IS mech I would feel comfortable riding in, if forced to.

But yeah, I don't think they really mean stock. I sincerely hope not....

[Blood Rose]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 April 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Really? Stock? Really?

Single Heatsinks, 1 Small Laser, no Endo Steel? are you sure?

Because if so you might want to visit the mechlab before your next drop and fix that, since you are a massive handicap to your team like that.

Yes, stock. I have maximum armour and, with chainfiring, can get off about 4 to 5 full barrages before reaching the cooldown threshold (70-80%)
I am honestly not sure what I would do with the upgrades. I am already maxed out on armour, I have only once in all my time overheated and even then I was back up in a couple of seconds - besides it is rae for me to be caught in a direct firefight for that long - so DHS are not really that vital and if it comes to it a cool shot can fix that issue, the spare tonnage from Endosteel could maybe go into a bigger engine as some extra speed would be nice but then again I am good as I am and an XL engine would just be a big mistake as I frequently lose a side torso first, meaning that for all the tonnage I would be saving I would be losing survivability in the end and the result would be detrimental to me.

Besides, if one sticks to stock loadouts then one learns how to play and can become almost godlike with an upgraded variant.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yes, stock. I have maximum armour and, with chainfiring, can get off about 4 to 5 full barrages before reaching the cooldown threshold (70-80%)
I am honestly not sure what I would do with the upgrades. I am already maxed out on armour, I have only once in all my time overheated and even then I was back up in a couple of seconds - besides it is rae for me to be caught in a direct firefight for that long - so DHS are not really that vital and if it comes to it a cool shot can fix that issue, the spare tonnage from Endosteel could maybe go into a bigger engine as some extra speed would be nice but then again I am good as I am and an XL engine would just be a big mistake as I frequently lose a side torso first, meaning that for all the tonnage I would be saving I would be losing survivability in the end and the result would be detrimental to me.

Besides, if one sticks to stock loadouts then one learns how to play and can become almost godlike with an upgraded variant.

If you go double heat sinks and endo, you can do max std 300 engine, and get better cooling. And also take some medium pulses for backups. (though don't fire the PPCs and MPLs at the same time).

[Blood Rose]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 30 April 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

If you go double heat sinks and endo, you can do max std 300 engine, and get better cooling. And also take some medium pulses for backups. (though don't fire the PPCs and MPLs at the same time).

Ill think about it, but for now I just want to run stock and get a good feel for the Mech. After that, when I am good, I will consider upgrading.

[Widowmaker1981]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2015 - 04:33 AM, said:

Yes, stock. I have maximum armour and, with chainfiring, can get off about 4 to 5 full barrages before reaching the cooldown threshold (70-80%)
I am honestly not sure what I would do with the upgrades. I am already maxed out on armour, I have only once in all my time overheated and even then I was back up in a couple of seconds - besides it is rae for me to be caught in a direct firefight for that long - so DHS are not really that vital and if it comes to it a cool shot can fix that issue, the spare tonnage from Endosteel could maybe go into a bigger engine as some extra speed would be nice but then again I am good as I am and an XL engine would just be a big mistake as I frequently lose a side torso first, meaning that for all the tonnage I would be saving I would be losing survivability in the end and the result would be detrimental to me.

Besides, if one sticks to stock loadouts then one learns how to play and can become almost godlike with an upgraded variant.

AWS-8Q

There you go. Considerably better in every way. Fire em in pairs.

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Blood Rose, on 30 April 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

Ill think about it, but for now I just want to run stock and get a good feel for the Mech. After that, when I am good, I will consider upgrading.

I hope you come to love the Awesome. It needs the love.

Widowmaker1981, on 30 April 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

AWS-8Q

There you go. Considerably better in every way. Fire em in pairs.

Or
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dbaa4440a1cb5b0

[Frosted]

the problem is that it can compete with clam mechs.

[CrushLibs]

I posted this in another thread but applies here

Quote

Timber vs Stalker:
TW (ERM)less overall range 405m vs. STK (LL) 540m
3.0 sec cool down vs. 2.4 secs
(CLPL) more range 600m vs. 540m
3.25 sec cool down vs. 2.4 secs
MAX damage 54 vs. 54
Damage at 540m 44.67dmg vs. 54dmg
Damage at 800m 17.34dmg vs. 26dmg
Stalker also gets a 20% heat reduction which is 7.93 heat/s vs TW's 10.36 heat/s

Close range under 405m both are equal accept for cycling times and less heat, up to 990m the stalker is out damaging the TW and up to 1200m the TW has more range but damage is low.

A 6 LL 4N has a heat eff% on smurfy of 33% with 12 secs to overheat after HG quirk = 48% with 20 secs to overheat That is nearly a 50% improvement with 3 more alpha shots avail.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3412d3fa76bd8c4

TW with 2 LPL and 4 Med has a Heat Eff. of 44% and 15 secs to overheat
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3352e3b4d0b073d

Tweek the 4N down to 5% Heat Gen quirk on LL for an overall -15% GH quirk = 17 secs till over heat
------------------------------------------------------------------
So to recap the highlights "TimberGod" vs Stalker

TW faster , Stalker more armor , Stalker 11% less laser duration , Stalker 20%-25% faster firing cycle rate(cooldown + duration) , Equal MAX damage under 405m , Stalker more damage per heat and more damage per sec. and more damage up to 990 meters.

The TW is 10 tons less than Stalker but CW added 10 tons to the IS drop deck.

High mounted lasers in the Stalker vs TW do make a huge advantage on putting damage on target vs getting hit yourself. My DD Jegger smokes the cataphract

[Widowmaker1981]

Mirumoto Izanami, on 30 April 2015 - 04:57 AM, said:

Or
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dbaa4440a1cb5b0

Or if you want to be reallly wacky (and i dont really recommend this, but it could be good for a giggle)

AWS-8Q

[Mirumoto Izanami]

Widowmaker1981, on 30 April 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Or if you want to be reallly wacky (and i dont really recommend this, but it could be good for a giggle)

AWS-8Q

MINE EYES!

[Knyx]

Just remove all of the range quirks and 1 of the heat quirks, same needs to happen for Raven as well. If clan ERLs, like all clan lasers have higher duration then they should ALWAYS have longer range then any IS laser, no matter the mech, no matter the quirks. No matter what, shorter duration lasers are ALWAYS gonna be the superior choice, you cannot argue it. MWO is a PvP game, in PvP burst damage is king. With a short duration laser not only can you get off your volley and pop right back into cover faster, but most people seem to forget that also means more time for you to cool off any heat without taking damage, and because your lasers have shorter duration you also have way easier to control ghost heat then the longer duration.

Edited by Knyx, 30 April 2015 - 05:14 AM.