244 replies to this topic

[Sir Wulfrick]

Sarlic, on 18 June 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

Hm, i actually like the look as we have now. It looks like a 200 ton and looking like it worked on his shoulders!

I agree. The Atlas looks fantastic: it really has the look I imagined when I read about it in the Battletech stories: a walking wall of skull-faced armour & death.

I do not believe that the Atlas needs or should have any weapons quirks. As others have said, the Atlas isn't meant to bring ultimate firepower: that role has always been the purview of the Direwolf. What the Atlas has always been is the most well protected mech on the battlefield and one that's incredibly hard to take down.

The sad fact is that if I'm driving my adjusted Dakkawolf (3 x UAC-5, 2 x UAC-10) or my Timber-A (2 x LPL, 4 x ERML) if I come across an Atlas not only do I actually feel sorry for the pilot but I also immediately think "free kill." It shouldn't be that way.

What the Atlas needs is very simple: +20% armour on the head & torso sections, a minimum of 15 armour points on each rear torso and 15-20 additional structure points on all 3 torso sections. Make it an incredibly difficult mech to kill. Make it able to absorb phenomenal amounts of punishment before it goes down. Then the Atlas would have parity with the other heavy assault mechs. As it is now it simply isn't competitive.

Edited by Sir Wulfrick, 18 June 2015 - 02:09 AM.

[Johnny Z]

I am convinced that the Inner sphere standard engine will get some toughness extras of some sort. I hope this does happen and it should help out the Atlas a bit anyway as well as many other slow easy to hit inner sphere mechs, which is basically all of them using a standard.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sir Wulfrick, on 18 June 2015 - 02:08 AM, said:

The sad fact is that if I'm driving my adjusted Dakkawolf (3 x UAC-5, 2 x UAC-10) or my Timber-A (2 x LPL, 4 x ERML) if I come across an Atlas not only do I actually feel sorry for the pilot but I also immediately think "free kill." It shouldn't be that way.

Being an Atlas pilot, I see a Timber or a Dire and my first thought is... Lets see who's better. It's not me more often than not, but once I'm done. The Clanner is dead or easy pickings for someone else. Mission accomplished.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 June 2015 - 03:29 AM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 June 2015 - 03:28 AM, said:

Being an Atlas pilot, I see a Timber or a Dire and my first thought is... Lets see who's better. It's not me more often than not, but once I'm done. The Clanner is dead or easy pickings for someone else. Mission accomplished.

True, but then I'd venture to say that we hard-core Atlas veterans are possibly some of the best heavy-assault pilots in the game. I still can't help feeling that no matter how good the pilot the old girl just isn't at parity with most of the newer mechs

[Joseph Mallan]

Sir Wulfrick, on 19 June 2015 - 01:55 AM, said:

True, but then I'd venture to say that we hard-core Atlas veterans are possibly some of the best heavy-assault pilots in the game. I still can't help feeling that no matter how good the pilot the old girl just isn't at parity with most of the newer mechs

The Dire Wolf is the only "New" Mech I think is better than my Atlas. And if we were to have the Devastator or Thunder Hawk even a Nightstar those are better. But thats like saying that a regular bow needs to be just as useful as a state of the art construction Compound bow. Or a Musket needs to be comparable to a Assault rifle. And I destroy enough newer Mechs to know its the pilot and not the Mech that is or isn't good.
A Commando with me in it is an easy kill. Now with St Jobe behind the stick...

[sneeking]

I wasn't here in cb but in my time I've never thought OH **** its an atlas ever...

They look more like big fat juicy bacon and egg sandwiches to me and I will fight almost anything to get to one.

[Kh0rn]

I fear a firestarter more then a Atlas these days. But I would fear it more if it could survive much longer. Also the glowing eyes would also give it a nice touch.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 June 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

The Dire Wolf is the only "New" Mech I think is better than my Atlas.

+1.

Edited by Titannium, 19 June 2015 - 04:40 AM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 June 2015 - 03:03 AM, said:

The Dire Wolf is the only "New" Mech I think is better than my Atlas. And if we were to have the Devastator or Thunder Hawk even a Nightstar those are better. But thats like saying that a regular bow needs to be just as useful as a state of the art construction Compound bow. Or a Musket needs to be comparable to a Assault rifle. And I destroy enough newer Mechs to know its the pilot and not the Mech that is or isn't good.
A Commando with me in it is an easy kill. Now with St Jobe behind the stick...

Good points, though I'd venture to say that as is, i.e. with current quirks included, both the Banshee (3C I think?) and certainly the Stalker 4N are both superior. In a close quarters engagement I'd probably take down the Stalker but the Banshee has enough armour to make it a real tough fight even under optimal conditions.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sir Wulfrick, on 19 June 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

Good points, though I'd venture to say that as is, i.e. with current quirks included, both the Banshee (3C I think?) and certainly the Stalker 4N are both superior. In a close quarters engagement I'd probably take down the Stalker but the Banshee has enough armour to make it a real tough fight even under optimal conditions.

I haven't hunted a Stalker in a long time. Do they still have crap twist radius? And I don't see enough Banshees... But I love going toe to toe with the ones I do run into.

Kh0rn, on 19 June 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

I fear a firestarter more then a Atlas these days. But I would fear it more if it could survive much longer. Also the glowing eyes would also give it a nice touch.

I have always hate small and fast here in MWO.

[Sir Wulfrick]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 June 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

I haven't hunted a Stalker in a long time. Do they still have crap twist radius? And I don't see enough Banshees... But I love going toe to toe with the ones I do run into.

I have always hate small and fast here in MWO.

Yes they do. Very poor torso yaw is one of the few disadvantages to the Stalker in general. It always amuses me when people say that the 4N is some sort of ultimate terror machine that's impossible to kill. It's got terribad torso twist range and is slow for its size. Get it in a brawling situation and something much more manoeuvrable will run rings around it. The Banshee is a great all-round combination of hard points, configuration, speed, protection and firepower. A serious challenge for anything with the possible exception of the Dakkawolf which unless in a brawling situation will shred pretty much anything.

[Sarlic]

(Credit: AThousandD)

Then again. I love PGI's ignorance. I bet no ones plays the Atlas over there.

• New players instantly quit playing the Atlas because of it's learning curve. (Actually the whole game, but it's one of the hardest chassis to pilot for the new among us)
  
• Low slung arms are not helping. They hit dirt alot of times. ...And die alot.
  
• The AC/20 silhouette is so big. Tickle with it and its stripped from it's armor and disabled. You lose half of your firepower alone with a single slap. When a fly lands on the ST: it gets instantly disabled.
  
• It looks like a 200 ton. But it's not tanking like it should fulfill it's role. Big target, slow, mixed bag of HPs, and after the hitbox rework it get shredded in seconds because of our current LONGRANGE spam when a new pilot is behind the wheel. How is it suppose to understand it's role?
  
• See the picture above. Says enough really. The Stalker is even thougher then the Atlas because of the hitboxes. It's balanced with it's twist and higher mounted energy weapons. The Atlas has gorilla arms. It almost hits the floor.

I think the Atlas needs to shine in his role more effectively. It needs to be a thick fat wall. It can either get on defense or take up the spear formation with a push.

Edited by Sarlic, 21 June 2015 - 07:03 AM.

[Jack Booted Thug]

Yes please to armor/structure buff.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sarlic, on 21 June 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

(Credit: AThousandD)

Then again. I love PGI's ignorance. I bet no ones plays the Atlas over there.

• New players instantly quit playing the Atlas because of it's learning curve. (Actually the whole game, but it's one of the hardest chassis to pilot for the new among us)
  
• Low slung arms are not helping. They hit dirt alot of times. ...And die alot.
  
• The AC/20 silhouette is so big. Tickle with it and its stripped from it's armor and disabled. You lose half of your firepower alone with a single slap. When a fly lands on the ST: it gets instantly disabled.
  
• It looks like a 200 ton. But it's not tanking like it should fulfill it's role. Big target, slow, mixed bag of HPs, and after the hitbox rework it get shredded in seconds because of our current LONGRANGE spam when a new pilot is behind the wheel. How is it suppose to understand it's role?
  
• See the picture above. Says enough really. The Stalker is even thougher then the Atlas because of the hitboxes. It's balanced with it's twist and higher mounted energy weapons. The Atlas has gorilla arms. It almost hits the floor.

I think the Atlas needs to shine in his role more effectively. It needs to be a thick fat wall. It can either get on defense or take up the spear formation with a push.

It can only take up the point if the team is willing to move slowly with the Atlas. I know when I stay with the assault lance My armor seems to last a lot longer than when I get away from the group and am picked off like a old sick gazelle!

[Void Angel]

Pardon me for the delay in posting - I've been away for training the last two weeks.

The Atlas doesn't need Medium Laser quirks (on a 100 ton chassis) or even enhanced armor - though that might be ok, I share Khobai's hesitation to throwing quirks at 'mechs to fix problems. Quirks can be a part of balance, but i think the issue isn't the Atlas' armor; it's the arms, and possibly the speed. If it could effectively spread damage to the arms, its place as the premier brawling Assault wouldn't be so shaky.

As it is, the 'mech isn't broken, but it does underperform.

[Void Angel]

Sarlic, I agree with you overall that the Atlas needs improvement, but I can't agree with all of your reasoning - asserting that new Atlas pilots instantly leave the chassis (or the game) is a totally unsupportable claim to make, for example. I was recently (as of two weeks ago) posting to a thread in the New Player forums asking for help improving his Atlas build; some players will stick with the chassis despite its difficulties - but we cannot know how many from reading the forums.

Nearly every one of your points is hyperbolic to the point of inaccuracy - the Atlas needs some help, but if we want change, we have to present reasonable arguments.

PS: I'm just downloading the patches and trying to catch up on patch notes, so do please correct me if I missed something that happened in the last two weeks.

[Sarlic]

I have different experiences then you regarding new players. Your experiences doesn't add up on mines. But hey: everybody is different.

You, i and perhaps others do not need the quirks. But think about the mech itself for a moment. You might find it inrrelevant or even find it inaccurate. I never said it needed other quirks. It's starting to get old tech. My only vote goes for extra resistance and or thoughness. You can all at internal structure quirks you want but if the armor is stripped in seconds and losing half of your FP then the other quirks are not helping when you take the Atlas in mind. (Aside from bad quirks).

Why would any new player choose the Atlas? Because it's iconic, it could tank, it looks amazing and it could be decent in other games; why not in this game?

With that in mind they proceed to buy one. It starts stock, some are keeping the AC/20 and changes the build.

Lets rock it then.

First 10 matches: guaranteed they die by either a CT and or ST within seconds because they haven't learned to twist their torso's. Not to mention because other players; especially vets. knows due the big silhouette of the AC/20 it gets stripped and disabled.

Next 5 matches the new player notices that he hit dirt alot. He can see the enemy, tries to hit it and proceed to expose more of his mech to make that hit while other mechs can easily hit him because he already exposed atleast 50% of his mech.

Why always my CT or ST..?
Why can't it tank..?
Weak rear..?
Why so slow...?
What's his role..?
Long range, mid range, short range..?
..

Now i wont describe the whole proces of a new player, but i am sure it looked like yours and mine back in the days. The bottom line is It's about the learning curve i am talking about. I want to soften it up. Sure you can train new players in private matches which is the way to go; but we have awful new player experience.

The arguments i have put up are reasonable. Perhaps in a harsch tone, it's my opinion and experiences and i have used most heard complaints.

You wouldnt hear me if the Atlas didnt needed attention. But i do it more for the new players then for vets.

Good on you for helping other people out. Props for that. Any help is a good help. I got my own guide about the Atlas and so forth and i am trying to jump in at sections when i see others struggling with this mech.

Edited by Sarlic, 24 June 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[Random Carnage]

Anyone who claims the Atlas is fine, has not spent much time playing it's intended role of brawler. Way to slow, to hot, too fragile and just not compeditive.

I played Atlas - a lot. I did ok for a while because I was very familiar with them. Even the first Clan wave was manageable, just. These days, taking an Atlas is suicide. Very little chance that you'll be standing at the end of a game unless it's a team roll. In any relatively balanced game, the Atlas is dead.

The Atlas is certainly not feared. It should be. If you walk around a corner and fine an Atlas looking at you, it should be an Oh Sh*t moment as you scramble for your S key. Usually however, you simply alpha the right torso to remove the cannon, then you're pretty much outgunning them from there on in, and will win more often than not with the fire power most mechs (even lights) carry these days.

[The Mechromancer]

If its not too late, tweet, post, smoke signal Russ before the town hall!

save the Atlas.

[Bilbo]

Random Carnage, on 25 June 2015 - 12:22 AM, said:

Anyone who claims the Atlas is fine, has not spent much time playing it's intended role of brawler. Way to slow, to hot, too fragile and just not compeditive.

I played Atlas - a lot. I did ok for a while because I was very familiar with them. Even the first Clan wave was manageable, just. These days, taking an Atlas is suicide. Very little chance that you'll be standing at the end of a game unless it's a team roll. In any relatively balanced game, the Atlas is dead.

The Atlas is certainly not feared. It should be. If you walk around a corner and fine an Atlas looking at you, it should be an Oh Sh*t moment as you scramble for your S key. Usually however, you simply alpha the right torso to remove the cannon, then you're pretty much outgunning them from there on in, and will win more often than not with the fire power most mechs (even lights) carry these days.

I still do just fine while brawling in mine, but, by all means, pester them until they make it better.