188 replies to this topic

[Kilo 40]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 01:03 AM, said:

You didnt really say anything that was fact based to need refuting with facts.

I said that nerfing the SC will not make the ice ferret viable, nor will nerfing the TW make the Summoner viable.

that's as factual as it gets.

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 01:07 AM, said:

You understand they can give positive quirks to under performing mechs besides negative ones to OP mechs. And the ONLY thing a mech has to have to be viable is enough of the right kind of positive quirks. A good example is the Thunderbolt no one was using before. Or the Wolverine for that matter.

Any mech can be made viable with the right quirks.

quirks don't change hard points, structure, hit boxes or tonnage limits.

you're not going to quirk the mist lynx into a good mech.

[Nightshade24]

Evan20k, on 15 May 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

Only viable? I dunno what game you've been playing. The HBR/WHK are both exceptional mechs and that's before we even talk about the mighty DWF. The Gargoyle also silently became the best 80 tonner with quirks.

Hate to break it to ya but the IS have way more chassis for assaults (lets say awesome) then the entire population of active assault players for clans and this is for a reason...

Also there is only 1 Clan 80 tonner and 3 IS ones...

Victor hands down is still superior to the gargoyle.
Zeus is also considered better at least.
Awesome? at least the awesome has the range advantage. The Gargoyles only advantage in game is speed to armour ratio and this tonnage with speed is useful for capturing bases on assault/ conquest as more weight on the cap/ heavier the mech = faster it caps. 80 tonner with cap accelerator could solo cap anything with good speed.

However battle master does that quite well already nad better then the gargoyle...

Hellbringers only saving grace is ECM. we can definitly use a buff to the omnipods for things like (across the variants aplicable) ER PPC's, LBX 5's, machine gun ROF, SRM's, LRM 20, non ECM ST, etc.

[XX Sulla XX]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

I said that nerfing the SC will not make the ice ferret viable, nor will nerfing the TW make the Summoner viable.

that's as factual as it gets.



quirks don't change hard points, structure, hit boxes or tonnage limits.

you're not going to quirk the mist lynx into a good mech.

No its an opinion not a fact.

And yes quirks do make mechs viable no matter hard points etc. If you give a mech enough fire power and durability they are viable.

[Kilo 40]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

No its an opinion not a fact.

"nuh uh". what a great argument.

Quote

And yes quirks do make mechs viable no matter hard points etc.

and, I can't take you seriously anymore.

[Nightshade24]

El Bandito, on 15 May 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

This is just omni-pod nerfs. I want chassis nerfs. Also, why is there no detail in their announcement, like they said?

Why chassis nerf?

Timberwolf D.
Timberwolf Prime

Stormcrow C
Stormcrow B
Stormcrow A

etc are not really comp with standard omnipods and such for the chassis nerf to be deserved...

[Shalune]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

"nuh uh". what a great argument.



and, I can't take you seriously anymore.

Go away troll.

[XX Sulla XX]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

"nuh uh". what a great argument.



and, I can't take you seriously anymore.

Honestly not sure why you are finding it so hard to grasp the idea of what can make a mech viable. Quirks can increase range and DPS etc to over come any lack of hard points or bad locations. Quirks can also make any mech durable.

[Nightshade24]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

-snip-

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:19 AM, said:

-snip-

This is getting awkward fast.

Anyway the thing is quirks can indirectly add tonnage.

For eg if a weapon is 40% colder that is 40% of your original heatsinks needed no longer needed and thus you can spare some heatsinks away. Talks of ammo quirks amongst PGI staff also may save tonnage as you do not need so much tons of ammo for the same amount. IS quirks also tend to save tonnage, for eg the Dragon 1N's AC 5's fire so rapidly that it is practically a UAC 5 with no jam chance as well as being 1 crit slot less and 1 ton lighter.
Another way to picture it as it having the firepower of 4 AC 5's even though it has 2 AC 5's, which saves 50% weight.

It is true that nerfing the timberwolf will not make the summoner better. but I assume some of these quriks will be buffs to certain omnipods of the timberwolf (for eg missile and ballistics capability) so this buffs the non meta timberwolfs.
I assume the next patch will continue buffing the poor end mechs.

[Kilo 40]

Shalune, on 16 May 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

Go away troll.

piss off.

I tried to have an actual conversation.

[Nik Reaper]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:11 AM, said:

...

you're not going to quirk the mist lynx into a good mech.

If you stop to think about it, yes.. yes you can and the thunderbolt is an example of that.

All you need are strong enough quirks and even if you need to fire weapons from feet hight of the mech, if the quirks are good enough you would. I wish PGI would stop and reverse any ~50% ( even 25% should be the most rare of cases ) quirk , but how about a mistlinx with 50% ermedl recharge quirk ( half time recharge ) and 50% laser heat generation? , if you run a 4 ermedl mist linx now you are running a 8 laser mistlinx for nothing extra...

So yeah, they could quirk anything in to viability.. and it would look ridiculous , and yet I don't feel that would stop them.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 16 May 2015 - 01:36 AM.

[SaltBeef]

The Stormcrow was my Bad luck mech anyways no matter what I did with it I could not find this magical armor that deflects all hits and regrows hitbox armor, Same with the Firestarter ! I know they are hard to hit and deflect shots have wonky hitboxes but my Ping and gameplay style must be in a place where that does not matter as I get smashed in those mechs and do not play them much anyway! I guess that I Never figured it out. I did like the light hunting Streak Crow but it would get smashed by heavies and assaults. In theTimberwolf I can do as many Kills and Damage in the Orion as I can in a Timberwolf without Lurms. Timber wolf is agile and fast way better than Orion in Agility but Not a God mech. It is a Good mech with the laser vomit 2 LP and 4 to 5 ER med is good but you really have to manage the heat or Die! Laserbarf got boring quick! Most Competitive Player are using Gauss plus 4 or 5 med lasers in the timby anyhow!.

Edited by SaltBeef, 16 May 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[STEF_]

Aresye Kerensky, on 15 May 2015 - 11:01 PM, said:

I actually feel Thunderbolts are sitting in a pretty good spot. The only one I have a problem with is the 5SS, but I kind of deserve it if I let it get close enough to do full damage.

Dat 84 dmg in a couple of seconds......
My deck always has 2 thunder 5SS indeed

[_____]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 12:15 AM, said:

Well your statement is true by accident. Balance is good for the game. And if the game works better you sell more mech packs. So in that sense it is true.

Let's just say it's only for balance, then why not do something that's desperately needed for the VND-1X/1R, the AS7-K, AWS-PB/T and bring them up to at least average viability. No, they're singling out TBR SCR specifically to sell Wave 3 because these two and the DWF are what people are benchmarking Wave 3 against. They need to make it look good to sell it.

You're missing the point when you only look at balance in isolation. Yes balance overall is good for the game, but balancing everything is hard. So they pick the lowest hanging fruit with the maximum possible monetary return - selling the next mech pack.

Edited by BlackhawkSC, 16 May 2015 - 01:43 AM.

[Kilo 40]

Nightshade24, on 16 May 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

but I assume some of these quriks will be buffs to certain omnipods of the timberwolf (for eg missile and ballistics capability) so this buffs the non meta timberwolfs.

The tears would flow if they buff ANY TW omnipod meta build or not.. The people calling for nerfs on the TW and SC don't care about meta builds, they just think that if you see a lot of something then it must be OP.

"Everyone is using stormcrows? well it must be super OP other wise they would use something else. never mind the fact that clans have a very small number of mechs compared to the IS, and that most of the clan mechs in the same weight category flat out suck, so naturally they choose the better mech. but it must be OP cause I see a lot of them".

[kapusta11]

XX Sulla XX, on 16 May 2015 - 01:02 AM, said:

TBR - Perfect combination of speed, hard points, fire power, hit boxes, jump jets. agility etc. It can literally be built to be a tier one mech for any range of game play.

SCR - Again top tier fire power, durability, speed and fire power for its weight class. Really even better than most of the heavies.

As you can see both mechs are so good because of many factors its not one single thing. And when fixing them it will tricky to do it in a way that keeps in viable but not OP and do so for all Elo levels.

So what you're saying is min-maxed Clan mech > min maxed IS mech? Then that's the problem of clan tech (engines, upgrades, DHSs, lasers, gauss) being straight up better and mechs that can't be min-maxed (because of fixed undesired equipment) being used as an excuse to not address true issue. The problem with SCR and TBR nerfs is that you have to nerf any other optimized (by lore) mech like Arctic Cheetah, Cauldron-Born, Huntsman, Night Gyr, all of clan BattleMechs like Stone Rhino and Kodiak, Blood asp and many, many others.

Edited by kapusta11, 16 May 2015 - 01:58 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Kilo 40, on 16 May 2015 - 01:40 AM, said:

The tears would flow if they buff ANY TW omnipod meta build or not.. The people calling for nerfs on the TW and SC don't care about meta builds, they just think that if you see a lot of something then it must be OP.

"Everyone is using stormcrows? well it must be super OP other wise they would use something else. never mind the fact that clans have a very small number of mechs compared to the IS, and that most of the clan mechs in the same weight category flat out suck, so naturally they choose the better mech. but it must be OP cause I see a lot of them".

30% machine gun ROF for timberwolf prime parts?
5 to 10% ER PPC velocity for timberwolf A/D arms?
Narc range increase on stormcrow D?

etc...

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Let's just say it's only for balance, then why not do something that's desperately needed for the VND-1X/1R, the AS7-K, AWS-PB/T and bring them up to at least average viability. No, they're singling out TBR SCR specifically to sell Wave 3 because these two and the DWF are what people are benchmarking Wave 3 against. They need to make it look good to sell it.

You're missing the point when you only look at balance in isolation. Yes balance overall is good for the game, but balancing everything is hard. So they pick the lowest hanging fruit with the maximum possible monetary return - selling the next mech pack.

Clearly if you look at the list they are starting with the outliers at the top. I would hope they do the outliers at the bottom next.

[Nightshade24]

MechaBattler, on 15 May 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

Well if they give the Stormcrow and Timberwolf positive quirks, my faith in PGI's balancing efforts will be greatly diminished. : /

Why? Not much people run ballistics or missiles on either and when they do it's just a Stormcrow streak boat.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

So what you're saying is min-maxed Clan mech > min maxed IS mech? Then that's the problem of clan tech (engines, upgrades, DHSs, lasers, gauss) being straight up better and mechs that can't be min-maxed (because of fixed undesired equipment) being used as an excuse to not address true issue. The problem with SCR and TBR nerfs is that you have to nerf any other optimized (by lore) mech like Arctic Cheetah, Cauldron-Born, Huntsman, Night Gyr, all of clan BattleMechs like Stone Rhino and Kodiak, Blood asp and many, many others.

Yes you will have to nerf clan mechs that are to good that are coming out later.

[Kilo 40]

Nightshade24, on 16 May 2015 - 02:07 AM, said:

30% machine gun ROF for timberwolf prime parts?
5 to 10% ER PPC velocity for timberwolf A/D arms?
Narc range increase on stormcrow D?

etc...

never happen