912 replies to this topic

[Kiiyor]

Ah, I see now....

Quote

To put things to rest.... no, I have never cheated in this game. I want that to be known.

Apparently, my kid's account was banned for running an exploit that her and a friend downloaded last week on the family computer...so they banned my account as well (without any notice).

I am horrified and humiliated beyond measure. I fully understand that I can't be associated with A.C.E.S. now thanks to the "public shame" thread. The damage is already done....and I am deeply saddened by that.

I've sent emails to support explaining what happened and so far no response; I guess that's that.

Sorry guys.

So, his daughter's account and his account were running on the same machine? His daughter installed a hack on that machine, the same one that Bhael used? They both played the same installation?

Well, if that's the case, then it sucks, but it's still punishable. Even if Bhael was using the machine with cheats installed without them running, they were probably still detectable by PGI. There's probably nothing that can be done about it, because the only proof that Bhael wasn't cheating is heresay.

If it happened to me, my daughter would feel a disturbance in the force as my anger reached biblical proportions. "Hi honey, how was your day? We need to talk, and you should be aware that I've been cultivating a desire to go medieval on you all day."

[orcrist86]

Akulla1980, on 27 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Problem is you cant physically prove who was at the controls of said account. That is why the IP ban. He may be guilty and may not be. PGI cant differentiate so they did the right thing.

Yes

[Kiiyor]

I Make Poor Decisions, on 27 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

This is part of my objection. If they really were checking code injection, they wouldn't need video evidence since it would be irrelevant what's shown on the video considering they have the actual code injection found. The fact that there's any sort of "video evidence" being used in place of a more responsible option, a code injection checking anti-cheat measure, is a joke.

There should be absolutely no question about which account is cheating and which isn't. The account that's not cheating, the account being played on a different computer where that code-injection-checking anti-cheat measure is also checking and then verifies that there's no problem should not be banned.

They could be using both. Multiple confirmation.



Let's say they detect something screwy in the code. It could be explained away as an anomaly - unless they match the screwiness up with video. Just a guess, however, but makes sense to me.

[Cementi]

Akulla1980, on 27 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Problem is you cant physically prove who was at the controls of said account. That is why the IP ban. He may be guilty and may not be. PGI cant differentiate so they did the right thing.

As crappy as the courts are I am glad they are not this crappy.
"Well we know someone in the house is guilty of murder......death by lethal injection for the whole family."

See why thats stupid. Ban the account that is directly involved in the offence, but not anyone who plays from that location.

[PoorDecisions]

Kiiyor, on 27 May 2015 - 08:25 PM, said:

So, his daughter's account and his account were running on the same machine? His daughter installed a hack on that machine, the same one that Bhael used? They both played the same installation?

You're not even reading the thread before replying.

[9thDeathscream]

Cementi, on 27 May 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

As crappy as the courts are I am glad they are not this crappy.
"Well we know someone in the house is guilty of murder......death by lethal injection for the whole family."

See why thats stupid. Ban the account that is directly involved in the offence, but not anyone who plays from that location.

Courts have more means at their disposal to prove guilt. PGI doesn't. What else could they do. Go CSI on his ass?

[PoorDecisions]

Akulla1980, on 27 May 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Problem is you cant physically prove who was at the controls of said account. That is why the IP ban. He may be guilty and may not be. PGI cant differentiate so they did the right thing.

Why would someone who plays a lot better than his daughter install an exploit on the family computer and play on her account when he can just go play on his own account and STILL do better than his daughter + exploits?

You're not making any sense.

There's absolutely no reason to ban two accounts when exploits are only found on one account. You ban the account, not the house. I mean, why not just ban everyone on the block or in the city? How do you know that it wasn't his neighbor playing? Ban the whole city, just in case.

...this is the logic that you're using.

[Johnny Z]

From another game and this isnt even half of their anti cheat measures.


We have a so called 'replay' system in our game: every match may be reviewed from the camera of every player after the match is finished. Using this information our support team banned a lot of players, on which we received many complaints which were ultimately confirmed by reviewing replays.

I could copy paste it all but this other game goes into great detail of their bots that search for cheats in a few different ways which they basically claim is 100% accurate and near instantaneous(spelled right? ). Then the replays are reviewed for confirmation. Like I said for a while all the beta players could see the replays for themselves.

No idea what this game is doing but if its anything close to what some of the new games not out of beta yet are doing......

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 May 2015 - 09:03 PM.

[orcrist86]

Cementi, on 27 May 2015 - 08:29 PM, said:

As crappy as the courts are I am glad they are not this crappy.
"Well we know someone in the house is guilty of murder......death by lethal injection for the whole family."

See why thats stupid. Ban the account that is directly involved in the offence, but not anyone who plays from that location.

If both counts are actively running cheat software then you ban both. Maybe he didn't know, maybe he did; doesn't matter. The computer was his, and he was responsible for it and its contents. Accountability isn't just taking one for yourself, its taking it for everyone and everything in your scope of authority. A position unfamiliar to many these days.

[PoorDecisions]

Akulla1980, on 27 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Courts have more means at their disposal to prove guilt. PGI doesn't. What else could they do. Go CSI on his ass?

Actually, yes. Any dev team worth their paycheck will use some sort of system that actively checks for code injection as the game is running. When a code injection is found, the account logged in is reported via the anti-cheat system that's checking for the code injection.

There are even companies out there who SELL these anti-cheat systems to other gaming companies. It's not a foreign concept.

You catch the cheater. You don't just imprison the entire city because one person stole from another person.

orcrist86, on 27 May 2015 - 08:36 PM, said:

If both counts are actively running cheat software then you ban both. Maybe he didn't know, maybe he did; doesn't matter. The computer was his, and he was responsible for it and its contents. Accountability isn't just taking one for yourself, its taking it for everyone and everything in your scope of authority. A position unfamiliar to many these days.

Different computers.

YOU. ARE. NOT. READING. THE. THREAD.

[Cementi]

Akulla1980, on 27 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

Courts have more means at their disposal to prove guilt. PGI doesn't. What else could they do. Go CSI on his ass?

Simple, they could ban only the account guilty of the offence. Anything more than that is making assumptions and is unjust.

Yes I know it opens up alt accounts used to grief and troll but that will happen regardless.

[Kiiyor]

I Make Poor Decisions, on 27 May 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

You're not even reading the thread before replying.

Yeah, I missed a few pages after posting something earlier.

I've tried to apply my limited understanding of the issue, but as it's all second hand info and guesswork anyway, digging too deeply into it will likely just raise the blood pressure of all involved without solving anything.

I know it's frustrating to see a name dragged through the mud, especially if you think the person doesn't deserve it, but even if they were a victim of circumstance, surely you can see why the ban occurred. If everyone acknowledges that there's a lack of information, why speculate on it further? It's hard to win a battle when you have a limited understanding what you're up against.

If you really feel that strongly, just support your friend, suggest they purge their machine and do a fresh install, ban their daughter from playing, and play with them when they create a new account.

Speculating here will just fuel anger. I suggest waiting for a response from support (because there probably WILL be one if a ticket has been raised) and letting the whole thing rest for a while.

Edit:

I Make Poor Decisions, on 27 May 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

Different computers.

YOU. ARE. NOT. READING. THE. THREAD.

Different computers, and Bhael's wasn't running a hack? Then I would say that it's highly unlikely that cheat detection couldn't tell separate machines apart.

Most hacks, especially wallhacks and aimbots, work by injecting code into memory that intercepts the data between the server and the client - data like mech positions, types etc. that would normally go to the client to allow the game to run. They then display that as an overlay over the game client.

Detecting this involves finding anomalies with the normal flow of data. This happens at the machine level - I can't see how separate machines on the same IP could be confused with each other.

I suppose it's possible. I just think it's unlikely.

Edited by Kiiyor, 27 May 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[Smith Gibson]

We can all stop arguing about whether Russ was correct or not in banning all those players. The first person to mention {Godwin's Law} in an argument loses. Ergo, Russ has won and was correct in his actions.

[9thDeathscream]

They are going after the player. The only way to do it was kill the accounts from that IP. It is the only way to ensure they got that player.

It may or may not have been him.

Yeah its tough but it works. Is it fair not for me to decide.They can tell what account was running. But not who was physically pushing the buttons and moving the mouse!

[White Bear 84]

Kiiyor, on 27 May 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

Speculating here will just fuel anger. I suggest waiting for a response from support (because there probably WILL be one if a ticket has been raised) and letting the whole thing rest for a while.

But can't we all just freak out and lose our sh**?

[Flutterguy]

I Make Poor Decisions, on 27 May 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

Actually, yes. Any dev team worth their paycheck will use some sort of system that actively checks for code injection as the game is running. When a code injection is found, the account logged in is reported via the anti-cheat system that's checking for the code injection.

There are even companies out there who SELL these anti-cheat systems to other gaming companies. It's not a foreign concept.

You catch the cheater. You don't just imprison the entire city because one person stole from another person.



Different computers.

YOU. ARE. NOT. READING. THE. THREAD.

That strikes me as unlikely. I seriously doubt they did an IP ban. Putting on my wild theory and supposition hat, my guess would be the daughter commandeered her father's computer and installed hacks on both her's and her father's computer so she could play MWO with her friend.

[Euphoric1RW]

PEOPLE SERIOUSLY THINK THEY NEED TO CHEAT TO BEAT ME! It is very insulting for people to cheat to win, very lame, I work hard to suck at this game and then I have to face lame cheaters, hope they bann them all forever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kiiyor]

White Bear 84, on 27 May 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

But can't we all just freak out and lose our sh**?

I'M IN.

[White Bear 84]

Kiiyor, on 27 May 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

[Mycrus]

Mystere, on 27 May 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Yes, no innocent person has ever been executed.

You mean we execute just anybody?

At the point the needle was shoved they were guilty as charged. Burden of proof shifts to the guilty to prove otherwise.