118 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

The only cool "less than meta" build on the Summoner is the Summoner-A with just 5 ASRM6s. It's a lot more sustainable than the Doomcrow under the same scenario (however, the Stormcrow can have a head laser, just in case of ammo depletions).

Summoner's a ton of fun, but it's 2-3 tons more JJs that I'd want on a mech, and that's the kind of tonnage that would make or break a mech's "versatility" in builds.

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 14 June 2015 - 09:14 AM, said:

The only cool "less than meta" build on the Summoner is the Summoner-A with just 5 ASRM6s. It's a lot more sustainable than the Doomcrow under the same scenario (however, the Stormcrow can have a head laser, just in case of ammo depletions).

Summoner's a ton of fun, but it's 2-3 tons more JJs that I'd want on a mech, and that's the kind of tonnage that would make or break a mech's "versatility" in builds.

Hence why allowing Endosteel would really help a lot more than the small amount of tonnage really makes you think it would.

Alternatively quirks, but honestly... I'd far sooner the baseline be more standardized (everyone can and thus will use ES) than just solving everything with ever more quirks... but whatever.

[Coolant]

I was reading thru some of the posts on this thread and saw that there is a new variant coming with an extra laser/missile hardpoint. That will help tremendously. The agility and speed of the Summoner are it's strong points. Torso Twist, ACC/DEC, speed all are above average. It's even got a few laser quirks that I like - Heat Gen, Pulse Laser Duration, Cooldown. But, it's lack of hardpoints is it's weakness. I wish they would remove the hardwired jumpjets and give us a choice. That would immediately free up tonnage and slots.

I agree with some of other posters - give it Endo Steel. Also, the extra laser/missile slot coming in another variant will be huge. Unfortunately it will probably be in the Store first? Could be a long wait for CBills?

[Deathlike]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2015 - 09:20 AM, said:

Hence why allowing Endosteel would really help a lot more than the small amount of tonnage really makes you think it would.

Alternatively quirks, but honestly... I'd far sooner the baseline be more standardized (everyone can and thus will use ES) than just solving everything with ever more quirks... but whatever.

Have you yet concluded with this?

"We can't have nice things."

[Wintersdark]

Deathlike, on 14 June 2015 - 09:24 AM, said:

Have you yet concluded with this?

"We can't have nice things."

Yeah, sadly.

I really don't get why Russ is so opposed to changing that. Yeah, it would bring Clan mechs all up close to TBR(and soon to be EBJ) level but then you can apply faction wide nerfs that don't disproportionately ruin already poor Clan mechs. Speed nerf on ST destruction, or whatever else.

Having this weird random tonnage available via essentially random ES/FF application means it's practically impossible to balance the mechs against each other. Hardpoints, geometry, they're one thing, but when you simply lack multiple tons of pod space Because Reasons, it's one of the few truly objective disadvantages in the game that's totally unaffected by other balance factors.

This can't escape Russ And Co.... yet....? *sighs* *throws hands in air*

Whatever.

[Bulletsponge0]

just broke out my 2 UAC 5 summoner to seee how the CUAC quirks work....and its GLORIOUS!!!

[LordBraxton]

Endo on a summoner... so I could roll UAC10 + ERPPC +LRM15 + an actual viable amount of ammo.... dream mech!

[Moldur]

You can pug in anything if you're decent. The reason the Summoner takes a back seat is because there's a hellbringer that is 5 tons lighter and a timberwolf that is 5 tons heavier. Among the 3, it's pretty easy to see which one is going to be in last place. I really like the Thor though. I always felt like it and the Timberwolf were 2 peas in a pod.

[Wintersdark]

Moldur, on 14 June 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

You can pug in anything if you're decent. The reason the Summoner takes a back seat is because there's a hellbringer that is 5 tons lighter and a timberwolf that is 5 tons heavier. Among the 3, it's pretty easy to see which one is going to be in last place. I really like the Thor though. I always felt like it and the Timberwolf were 2 peas in a pod.

You don't even need to be decent. You can pug in bad mechs and do just as well as if you pug in good mechs, if you use the bad mechs all the time. Elo compensates.

[Summon3r]

if only i could put 2 erppc in the ST's id never complain about this mech again, no matter how you cut it it will always be hardpointed starved as much as most of us hate laser vomit these days this mech badly needs a couple torso E hardpoints or the option to put ES on.

[Templar Dane]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 June 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

Really guys, what's the big deal here? I've been buying one of every clan mech with cbills I didnt get in a pack to try it out, and so far, the summoner is one of my favorite. It feels great right off the bat, not even basic'd, and has decent hardpoints for dual UAC5's, gauss, or heavier AC's Great for peeking and shooting. It's nice and snappy. Add the JJ's in, and its one of the most fluid and fun to pilot for me.

Why don't you guys like it?

Shadowhawk.

Faster, more pod space. Why spend more time waiting in the queue when you can jump in a medium that does everything it can do, better.

[C E Dwyer]

Jazzbandit1313, on 13 June 2015 - 04:43 PM, said:

Really guys, what's the big deal here? I've been buying one of every clan mech with cbills I didnt get in a pack to try it out, and so far, the summoner is one of my favorite. It feels great right off the bat, not even basic'd, and has decent hardpoints for dual UAC5's, gauss, or heavier AC's Great for peeking and shooting. It's nice and snappy. Add the JJ's in, and its one of the most fluid and fun to pilot for me.

Why don't you guys like it?

Because its not a Timberwolf, for the most part

[C E Dwyer]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Yeah, sadly.

I really don't get why Russ is so opposed to changing that. Yeah, it would bring Clan mechs all up close to TBR(and soon to be EBJ) level but then you can apply faction wide nerfs that don't disproportionately ruin already poor Clan mechs. Speed nerf on ST destruction, or whatever else.

Having this weird random tonnage available via essentially random ES/FF application means it's practically impossible to balance the mechs against each other. Hardpoints, geometry, they're one thing, but when you simply lack multiple tons of pod space Because Reasons, it's one of the few truly objective disadvantages in the game that's totally unaffected by other balance factors.

This can't escape Russ And Co.... yet....? *sighs* *throws hands in air*

Whatever.

Because if they were made viable, less people would buy the new mechs, that's why he's opposed.
If my Victor was still viable I'd use it most matches, it goes out for a spin, but not as much as I would use it, if they quriks made it more mobile, TDK power creep has made them borderline at best, and I don't do meta..

[Burktross]

Alistair Winter, on 13 June 2015 - 05:24 PM, said:

• Because there are only a few good builds, and an infinite number of bad ones
  
• Lack of hardpoints = less variety, less experimentation
  
• No Endo = less room for extra gear. Most Summoner builds are either min-maxed or sacrifice firepower for the sake of extra gear like CAP, AMS and targeting computer.
  
• Because the Summoner's iconic look, with the powerful weapons in the arms and the giant missile launcher, is lost when everyone is using Nipple Canons with laser arms. Yes, you can run Dual CUAC5 nipples, but at what cost!? You've taken one of Battletech's most glorious designs and turned it into an abomination.

And as a personal pet peeve - the CUAC10 and CUAC20 both look ridiculous in this game. They're the lamest weapon design I have ever seen in any FPS game I can recall. They look like Grandma Duck's double-barrelled blunderbuss. So while the Summoner would do ok with a CUAC10 or CUAC20 in the arm, I just can't bring myself to defile my mech like that.

Alistair please no more links like that I beg

[Wintersdark]

Burktross, on 14 June 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Alistair please no more links like that I beg

Oh, good lord. I hadn't followed that link until you mentioned it here.

I hate you.

[Burktross]

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Oh, good lord. I hadn't followed that link until you mentioned it here.

I hate you.

HATE ALISTAIR NOT ME

[Templar Dane]

I wanted to see what the hubub was about......and now I wish I hadn't.

Cannot be unseen.

Edited by lordtzar, 14 June 2015 - 01:06 PM.

[Khobai]

They need to allow jumpjets to be removed on non-S omnipods. But keep them locked on S-omnipods.

The Summoner would be able to remove its jumpjets then. That would fix a lot of problems.

[KuroNyra]

Burktross, on 14 June 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Alistair please no more links like that I beg

Wintersdark, on 14 June 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

Oh, good lord. I hadn't followed that link until you mentioned it here.

I hate you.

Burktross, on 14 June 2015 - 01:01 PM, said:

HATE ALISTAIR NOT ME

lordtzar, on 14 June 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

I wanted to see what the hubub was about......and now I wish I hadn't.

Cannot be unseen.

The question is: Where the heck did he find a picture of me?!

[Templar Dane]

KuroNyra, on 14 June 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

The question is: Where the heck did he find a picture of me?!

My question is, why don't you put on a ******* shirt. Like god damn dude.

edit

I sent the link to my friends so that they too can experience the torture I did.

Edited by lordtzar, 14 June 2015 - 02:01 PM.