I sh*t you not, the IM 3 gauss troll is a mech that does 45 damage alpha at virtually any range.
It was the whole reason you can't fire more then 2 for nearly a year now. It was to kill this build. and later on kill the Direwolf 3-4 guass build but let me remind you this was way before PGI even had a concept for Clan mechs and how they will be in game. For all they knew virtually every weapon will be hardwired and clans will kinda peform simular to MW: LL but in MW: O, You can't modify your mech, but it has untouched stats and no nerfs . A possible outcome to clans.
Also escuse me? The King crab has a better profile then a direwolf and the arms not only have minor quirks to them but due to the 'claws' has a natural 10% immunity to damage, if your arms keep popping off I do not know what to say to you, because the direwolf torso pops off even more often... Nano seconds? tell me any mech or 2 mechs or even 3 mechs iwht a legitiment build that isn't a direstart that can take it off in even 1. And being 3 missile mechs at 2 meters range with SRM spam wouldn't be practical...
Also "slower" then the direwolf? the Direwolf is another 100 tonner with a 300 rating engine. It would be the same speed as a direwolf and the XL / other builds I posted would out run a direwolf... DWhy do you think the direwolf is the first mech to die in any game of NASCAR?
Also you say all my 'negativity' ? I was mainly filling you in on all the negativity you forgotten, the key to the debate is a balanced argument, should have thanked me for helping you out make a point or see that a point is false, instead of blame it on someones negativity. Do you want me to mention all the positives of the Inner sphere XL engines and Standard engines have because of all your negativity towards them? hmm?
Also after a ST of a clan mech falls, off, which is common for a direwolf as it has ST's the side of the awesomes Ct's which can even be hit from behind... the Direwolf will loose most of it's ammo as well as it's heatsinks and such, as well as a few engine heatsinks, thus it would have issues maintaining that 1 er ppc it has remaining, also due to how ammo drains from a mech, if the enemy hits you on the left side of the mech, you loose 50% (fresh mech) to 100% (half way through your ammo) on your direwolf if he takes your left side out. having a single ER PPC on an assault? the Cicada can do that better or a spider...
This is why you would more likely see a direwolf with a shield side and dumping all the ammo to the legs, ct, head, and the side the shield is on with few ammo on the shield side. (note: weapons on left side), however this prevents a duel gauss build and devoting that much space for simple shielding is in my mind stupid for a 100 tonner. however that's the meta of the direwolf atm... that or 4 er medium laser + 2 large pulse + 2 gauss rifles, however that's like the elite-players version of the timberwolf meta as you need 3+ keys to use it for firing as well as not die durring NASCAR, LRM's, NARCIng, etc. practically you need a pocket player with ECM to make sure you survive that ordeal and to help ease the pain of using shortcuts for NASCAR.
As I have seen from some units who successfully use the direwolf.
And I have shown some IS 100 tonners that's MORE then on par with the clan example you gave: the Direwolf. both 100 tonners, but King crab does it much more better in every way. What? you trying to compare a 85 tonner to the 100 tonner?
As odd as that is... I could point you the Battlemaster 2C who has more armour then a direwolf could ever have... or the Dragon 1N that out does it in Dakka / ballistics for small arms. However I doubt you want to turn the debate off the topic of Gauss rifles for those match ups to be valid for the debate at hand.
Also you say you need 1.5S face time, however the SAME applies to a clan mech. You need to CHARGE your gauss rifle before peaking.
Look at the jagermech, due to it's high mounts and such, it only needs to expose as I said above less then 10% to the enemy to fire for literally 0.5 seconds if you are good at timing (my friend only needs 0.16 seconds to fire off his gauss and hit a CT of an enemy mech in a jager from recordings and on reaction time rests we threw at him online he scored sometimes after 30 seconds of practicing under 0.12 seconds reaction time... however 0.3 to 0.5 is the average and for a game that's quite a bit, especially considering that quite a few people have 200-300 ping meaning you can charge, poke out, shoot, and go back behind cover before a person even has a chance to see you and hit you)
Also it owuld not be a 100m min range, it would be a 60m min range as part of TT... yep, this weapon as well as AC 2 and 5 had around 60m min range. to prevent snipping weapons used in brawling. This may be alright, but would be a bit confusing... I would welcome this though.
Also for your XL issue: the thing is not many people aim for a ST unless it's damaged and most likely from a rookie mistake on the shooter or hitboxes messed up or out of proportion, or a indirect wepaon like arty, lrm's, srm's, lbx, or you rolled your armour (which you SHOULD do in a Victor, that's like first step of usign a victor!), or what ever other reason: most people aim at the CT.
they only aim at your ST when it's in a worse condition then CT.
Clan mech suffer too from ST explosion, not a instant death, but in the form of major heat penalties and later on speed and movement penalties. Which if you compare to a IS standard engine (which is a fair debate as not all clan mechs or even most clan mechs have endo steel or a good sized engine or hardwired equipment that in some cases are useless, to the point all your weight savings is put towards an over sized standard engine that is more fragile in a IS one for eg)
Look at the Nova for eg... the direwolf, the executioner... the summoner, etc... do you think it has the average benifits of an XL engine? when they lack ES, or sometimes both ES and FF?
How many times have you choosed FF over XL engine?
Anyway, to see if I can prove against your point I made a standard engine heavy mech with duel gauss:
JM6-A
Average speed, is at least on par with most assaults and some heavies. On top of that it has MORE ammo then the Mad Dog C and 5 more shots then the mad dog C, if you land all your hits in range, you would get 675 damage in your game, rather above average I would suppose, assuming a 25% miss chance and depleation of ammo that's a 500 damage game rounded down at least coming your way. Still rather decent.
Also single gauss builds? I can name PLENTY of builds for those.
My zeus, highlander, victor, banshee, king crab, stalker, battlemaster, for a while my catapult K2, and my Hunchback as well as my centurion and shadowhawk ran 1 gauss with a standard engine plenty fine and in most cases on par with clan counterparts.
however I learned the catapult is beast with an XL engine reguardless of build as well as the dragon, so those are 2 very good XL mechs that behave if like they had LFE's (aka clan xl engines) but not hardwired...
You didn't hit a nerve. just throwing the counter arguement and using this thread instead of making a new one called "does the clan gauss cannon really need charge up for clan mechs" =P
what you did to deserve this and that wall of text?
Ignore one of the most IMPORTANT rules of a debate, which is ballance.
if you do not do it yourself, your oponent will do it for you and then does his own. Which tips the scale in his favour and not yours.
As not only does the person in the debate know the "problem" more then you, but also has more of an idea on the solution and how to execute it over you in a situation like this...
Trust me I am not a politician here to robe you of money when you are not looking.
Just here talking about pixel guns in a pixel game in a pixel world that I am a bit obsessed over for the past decade.
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speleomaniac, on 22 June 2015 - 01:09 AM, said:
