460 replies to this topic

[Kristov Kerensky]

IraqiWalker, on 14 July 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

My DWF-Prime pumps out 94 damage in one alpha. I really can't see a way for your crab to survive a 1 on 1 with it, and while it's cooling down, it's still firing 2 Gauss Rifles non-stop. I pilot both mechs, and I love the mobility on the King Crab, but I also recognize that it can't mount as many weapons, and in a 1 v 1 situation, where both mechs are fresh, damage is on the DWF's side.

I will not say one is always superior to the other though. Piloting style, and build choices make a huge different.

The main thing is that the Dire's alpha isn't PPFLD, it's best is 30, my King with 2 20s has that beat, and the twisting is enough to allow the King to survive just long enough to be the victor. It's toast for the next thing it faces mind you, unless the Dire pilot was an idiot, but I can usually survive the encounter. Luckily for me, there's lots of Dire pilots who shouldn't be in them, I've taken out 3 in a single drop that way.

Now, against some of the top comp players, IF they get in a Dire, which isn't often because there's much better Clan Mechs, they won't LET me use the King's advantages, they'll take my ass out from range, where they've got the edge and that big alpha can be safer to use since it outdoes my alpha, that's a fact. I said it, the Dire has a lot more sheer damage it can put out, and when it's used to it's best advantages, ranged combat, it's the better option for that fact alone. My King can't come close to that damage output, no IS Mech can.

Comes down to the pilots, personally prefer my King because the mobility factor, something I find matters more for my playstyle than sheer boom does.

*edit* can see the video now..

Ok, I can see you can aim up and down, but there's no lateral movement at all for the Gauss, which is what I was talking about. Same as the Jager, no lateral movement, same as my Yen and AH. My King, I got some swing there, and that matters a hell of a lot, since I can face away and still put 2 rounds on target.

Edited by Kristov Kerensky, 14 July 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ultimatum X, on 14 July 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

The Dire Wolf is king of firepower, it is the King of Gauss Vomit and the King Crab is at best a lesser imitation.

This, I don't even understand how people can question this still.....

[Ultimax]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Now, against some of the top comp players, IF they get in a Dire, which isn't often because there's much better Clan Mechs

You should try facing them more often in the queues, watch their streams and matches.


Unlike the nonsense on the forums, they recognize it is the most dangerous mech in the game.

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Comes down to the pilots

If that were the case, you would see King Crabs taken even sometimes when the tonnage/drop allows for it in comp matches.

You won't see that, you will see Dire Wolves.

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Ultimatum, can't view the video, and my apologies, I tried it once when the Dire was new, didn't work

Video should be fixed now.

I'll test DWF-A actuator later.


Try it with Warhawk, Exe, Gargolye, TBR - basically any mech that can take lower actuators.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 14 July 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mcgral18, on 14 July 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

And just how clueless are you?

Jagermech. Gauss rifles. Side torso? The ****?

Here you are bullshitting even more. 20 damage to an armoured Jager ST won't kill it. Has to go through whatever remaining arm ST first (but isn't halved unlike regular damage).

I'm not bullshitting. Have you even piloted a Jaeger, or even played against one while using AIMED shots to kill them quickly? You don't have to blow up the arm of the Jaeger to first blow up the side torso. Most Jaegers I can kill with two salvos of dual gauss and dual lasers, IF they've equipped an XL.

If they've equipped a standard, it's only 2 more salvos of dual gauss and lasers to pencil them and walk away laughing.

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I'm trying to educate you, so try to learn. Also, you'll note I have made suggestions to change Gauss on the first page of this thread, AND made a thread on how to normalize XL engines.

Yeah, I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs before you'll educate me about anything kid.

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Here you are throwing utter ********, please at least TRY to be factual. You're coming off as a ******** IS whiner.

Ok which part wasn't factual? You're just blustering about trying to come off like you're an authority, of which so far you've proven quite the opposite.

Be specific about what I was wrong about instead the BS generality "oh you're so wrong about everything", because I've been MORE than specific about what you've been wrong about.

[Mister Blastman]

InspectorG, on 14 July 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

How would you replace the current convergence model without CoF? Limited weapon groupings with cooldown between groups? Intrigued but not quite following you.


Another 'solve' for the weight problem is heavies and assaults are way too agile.
Nerf turn rate/twist rate. Nerf arm-movement rate, make them very 'forward-centric'. This buffs light into a slow-heavy/assault hunter that SHOULD scare lone or out of position fat mechs. If an average assault took 8-10 seconds to about face, that would really affect play and create some roles.

The other thing is the skill tree needs a redo. Complete overhaul.

Also nerf heavy/assault sensor range, expand certain medium and most light sensor range.

PGI needs a model for just how much Alpha/DPS/mobility each class/variant should have and go from there. relate that to maps and objectives.

How? Keep it stupid simple.

Weapons shoot straight ahead. Wider 'mechs have wider spread. It'd make it a hell of a lot harder to put an entire alpha into one component. And, strangely enough, smaller 'mechs like Mediums and Lights would benefit by being able to concentrate easier due to their narrower width.

Likewise, you'd see less Heavy and Assault 'mechs boating smaller weapons and instead using heavier stuff like AC 20s and PPCs to get as much of that damage into one spot as possible.

It would change the dynamics of the game substantially.

Stuff like the Nova might be worthwhile with all those hardpoints in one arm. Likewise, the Hunchback would be resurrected with all those lasers in one torso.

It would be a fantastic experiment to try and would only require a single change to the game. I'm not sure how easy or hard that change is--but the code is already there. You can see it on the new River City. Shoot trees with autocannons--they converge on them. Shoot trees with lasers... no convergence.

[Dimento Graven]

Ultimatum X, on 14 July 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

I'm not sure if you've really given this idea much thought.

It's been tossed around on the forums a number of times, and while its "easy" to suggest - actual feasibility seems extremely low.

For starters how would PGI keep IS & Clan numbers "even" enough to fill queues for games of 10 v 12?
That is to say, enough that you can make solo teams out of just PUGs who are "locked" into a faction.

What happens if they change mech factions in between one match to the next, creating lopsided-ness?

How would the team queue be handled?

Is everyone locked into their faction like CW - but all of the time?

Do we respect 3/3/3/3 for IS? Then what does Clan become? Lose Assaults, or lose assaults/heavies?

Are there enough teams to mix and match and do this, now we need jigsaw pieces to match for two different sized teams PLUS elo PLUS tonnage/class, etc.

Then there is the fact that most good players, power players, will gravitate to whatever is the best - and in your version of this game, that equals clan mechs.

Very few people want to play underdog scrub-mechs that are ripe for being farmed.

The concept of 10v12 is flawed at the very core, and would likely be a nightmare scenario for PGI - and probably for the playerbase as well.

10v12 would be a CW concept, not a pug queue concept. The pug queue by it's very nature would 'semi' handle the issue as both sides have an 'equal' chance for dropping with clan tech.

In CW though, balance is more important so 'un-nerfing' ALL tech, clan and IS, and restricting the CW queue to Clan side drops with 10 pilots and IS side drops with 12 seems to make the most sense balance-wise.

The closest PGI came to this was when they allowed the IS to have that extra 15 tons of drop weight and for whatever chicken **** reason, they repealed that change...

DONTOR, on 14 July 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

I would LOVE to be able to aim with Gauss in my Clan mechs arms, can i.s. mechs do this? YES

Are there many Clan mechs capable of running dual Gauss even though they weigh 3 tons less? NO

i.s. dual gauss mechs jaeger, cataphract, Catapult, King Crab. = 4

Clan Dual Gauss mechs, Cauldron Born, Dire Wolf, Warhawk. = 3


I'd be fine with this also, make it a bit tougher anyhow, should still probably explode but I dont really care.

I don't see how having one less chassis that can mount dual gauss some how balances ALL THE OTHER advantages the Clans have over IS.

It's a non-factor chassis capacity isn't the issue it's the fact that cumulative effect of all the clan advantages weighs in fairly high level of OP to wade through, ESPECIALLY when the Clanners get to battle 12v12.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I said the Dire has the most boom of any Mech in the game, nothing the IS has comes close to it, but it's got severe disadvantages to it to offset that, which I personally think went a little TOO far, but I do understand PGI's reasoning, same as the 2 Gauss fired a time limit, the Dire is just THAT damn deadly, nothing the IS had in lore could withstand it, hence the Daishi callsign it was given, it fits all too well, it's the Great Death.

I just happen to prefer my King due to mobility issues, I do well enough in it in pug and CW that I'm comfortable saying that and will keep saying it. I can put out more damage in my Dire, and I do have a lot of fun in it, be it dual Gauss and LPL/ERL/ERPPCs or the Dakka build that everyone loves, it's just so much FUN! With a set team, definitely give the Dire the advantage, no two ways about, those weaknesses are covered. Still rarely see them in CW drops, always dual Gauss when you see them, and you can HEAR the fear in people's voices over comms when they call it out, with good cause. I still face them with my King Crab and usually get to be the one to walk away in CW, not always, faced some of the top teams and I've learned to NOT face those mothers! Screw that! That HURTS! Cause it's not just that Dire firing at me, it's every damn Clan Mech from here to Strana Mechty suddenly and my King doesn't melt, it vanishes in a flash of smoke! But that's a rare thing, there's just better Mechs of lower weight for the Clans to take, hell, I'm rethinking taking my King in CW for something that lets me take more larger Mechs than I can due to it being 100 tons, over 1/3rd of my deck right there. I do enjoy it though, and if I don't drop solo PUG, if I get on the House TS and drop with others, I'll get that thing through 2 or 3 waves of Clan Mechs before it gets destroyed. Solo PUG in CW, yeah, that's so hit and miss, it's what making me rethink the King, simply for those drops probably.

[Mcgral18]

Dimento Graven, on 14 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

I'm not bullshitting. Have you even piloted a Jaeger, or even played against one while using AIMED shots to kill them quickly? You don't have to blow up the arm of the Jaeger to first blow up the side torso. Most Jaegers I can kill with two salvos of dual gauss and dual lasers, IF they've equipped an XL.

If they've equipped a standard, it's only 2 more salvos of dual gauss and lasers to pencil them and walk away laughing.

Yeah, I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs before you'll educate me about anything kid.

Ok which part wasn't factual? You're just blustering about trying to come off like you're an authority, of which so far you've proven quite the opposite.

Be specific about what I was wrong about instead the BS generality "oh you're so wrong about everything", because I've been MORE than specific about what you've been wrong about.

You are saying 20 damage (minus remaining arm structure) will kill 37 IS. That's straight up bull.

You want to make the addendum: A Jager that has taken at least 110 damage can be killed by a Gauss explosion...then that's a different story. That's stripping the entire 40 point arm, then taking out the 70 IS+A from the ST (minus 5 rear armour). Then you also have the additional 20 points from the arm, which will have various levels remaining. Remainder goes into the ST.


Yes, Jagers are easy to kill, as is any mech in the game. Timby also does not have a 100% chance to survive ST loss; not if he shielded properly and has only that ST left. But I don't think that's what you meant.



Mr High and Mighty, who knows everything about the game. I'll call ******** there as well. You've proven yourself to be an ass time and time again.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Clan Guass, 3t lighter and no trade offs? and? Whats with the nit picking every single thing the Clans have that is marginally better in any way to its IS equivalent?

[IraqiWalker]

Lugh, on 14 July 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

In LORE Clan makes were essentially 200% better than IS mechs. Which is why you say 5 v 8 games played with the clans winning.

Currently despite all the IS fanboy screaming about Clans being OP, if you do the math, the clans have only a 10% advantage overall bottom line.

yeah, there is literally NOTHING that supports those numbers.

This is coming from someone who knows the lore, and TT very well, too.

Clans were better than the IS STOCK mechs. True, and even then, not by 200%

Ultimatum X, on 14 July 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

What exactly was that video supposed to show? All the shots were fired in a direct vertical line. Go make a recording of firing a shot to the side if you want to prove your point.


Up/down movement is controlled by the UPPER Arm Actuator. Side to side movement is controlled by the LOWER arm actuator. Which is removed from the arms that can mount AC 20s. So an arm that has no lower arm actuator only moves up/down.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 14 July 2015 - 06:04 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Lugh, on 14 July 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

You clearly won't be satisfied until everyone is in the same fricking robot. There is obviously no talking to you.

And clearly you won't be satisfied until your preferred mech is the only 'mech that can be used to win, period, and there is absolutely no point in talking to you.

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In LORE Clan makes were essentially 200% better than IS mechs.

I don't think lore was quite that extreme, at least from what I remember of the charts from the actual TT game, I don't recall every Clan weapon being that overly powered.

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Which is why you say 5 v 8 games played with the clans winning.

I'm not sure where you get this. I've been saying, and said it several times actually, let's un-nerf ALL technology, both Clan and IS, and setup the CW queue to have 10v12 matches in Clan vs. IS battles.

The primary balancing factor that IS had was that it could always bring MORE soldiers to the battle than the Clan could.

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Currently despite all the IS fanboy screaming about Clans being OP, if you do the math, the clans have only a 10% advantage overall bottom line.

(no I will not do the math for you AGAIN)

I completely disagree with your arbitrary ******** calculations that the over all aggregate advantage equates to "10%".

The aggregate value is a lot higher as seen by the fact that Clans win most battles NOT because they're better pilots, but because their 'mechs can hit the IS harder from longer distances and are MUCH more survivable.

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So Given those numbers PGI has done their durndest to dumb it down so clans lose 190% of the advantage to a mere 10% of advantage. And YOU cannot build a more durable mech? What is your problem? STD engines are there for you. You can be within just a few percentage points of the same mech with XL and be MORE durable than a clan mech, granted then you will be SLOWER than everyone for sure, but it can be done.

Yeah, and I've explained that to you and your other Clanboy ilk and you refuse to acknowledge the truth of it.

If an IS pilot choses to equip a standard engine he gives up some significant level of speed and maneuverability, and/or fire power (if he chooses to equip a larger standard to maintain speed and maneuverability), and/or any other number of things, ammo, cooling, armor, to try and attain torso loss survivability and some level of equitable battle relevance against clan 'mechs in his tonnage range.

Your moronic grasping at the standard engine straw and apparent ignorance of the aggregate affect it has on 'mech design shows a decided lack of first hand experience.

In CW, while EVERY clan 'mech drops with an XL engine, it's only the very fool hardy IS pilot that will equip an XL on any chassis above "Light". Don't try and BS us about that, TOO OFTEN do I see someone on the IS side die to a side torso loss with XL and seeing the Clan enemies chastise and ridicule him for bringing a 'mech with an XL.

Your attempts at dismissing the affects of piloting a heavy IS 'mech that most of the enemy's Clan assaults can significantly out pace also shows a high level of bias.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 July 2015 - 06:01 PM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mcgral18, on 14 July 2015 - 05:49 PM, said:

You are saying 20 damage (minus remaining arm structure) will kill 37 IS. That's straight up bull.

No, I'm not saying that, what I said was that '...two rounds of dual gauss and dual lasers...', let's say 80 points of damage if using dual medium lasers. 15+15+5+5 = 40 TIMES 2 = 80.

I won't chastise you for missing my point, I'm not always perfect in my reading comprehension either.

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You want to make the addendum: A Jager that has taken at least 110 damage can be killed by a Gauss explosion...then that's a different story. That's stripping the entire 40 point arm, then taking out the 70 IS+A from the ST (minus 5 rear armour). Then you also have the additional 20 points from the arm, which will have various levels remaining. Remainder goes into the ST.

When I kill Jaegers, I don't aim at arms. I aim at side torsos, so, for me this isn't even a moot part of the discussion. You don't have to blow up the arm before you can blow the side torso.

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Yes, Jagers are easy to kill, as is any mech in the game. Timby also does not have a 100% chance to survive ST loss; not if he shielded properly and has only that ST left. But I don't think that's what you meant.

AND THAT IS MY WHOLE POINT, AND YOU ARE SOMEHOW COMPLETELY IGNORING IT...

"...not if he shielded properly and has only that ST left..."

If the Jaeger with the XL engine loses ONE side torso, he's out of the game, period.

BY YOUR OWN WORDS, the Timby has already survived the same torso loss, and only dies after losing the SECOND SIDE TORSO.

Survivability in Clan vs. IS, XL equipped equivalent mechs, REGARDLESS OF EQUIPED WEAPONS, the Clan is 100% MORE survivable after a side torso loss.

When fighting Clan 'mechs I don't aim for side torsos, I'm aiming for legs, CT, or cockpit, because those are the only locations where if I get through, it'll either be dead, or very shortly dead from a team mate.

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Mr High and Mighty, who knows everything about the game. I'll call ******** there as well. You've proven yourself to be an ass time and time again.

Yeah, I don't knuckle under to people who just scream loud, say things without actual content.

I'm a real ******* that way, for sure.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 July 2015 - 06:13 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

IraqiWalker, on 14 July 2015 - 05:58 PM, said:

What exactly was that video supposed to show? All the shots were fired in a direct vertical line. Go make a recording of firing a shot to the side if you want to prove your point.


Up/down movement is controlled by the UPPER Arm Actuator. Side to side movement is controlled by the LOWER arm actuator. Which is removed from the arms that can mount AC 20s. So an arm that has no lower arm actuator only moves up/down.

Most importantly, take a Timber Wolf with Gauss in the right arm, and the prime arm in the left with two lasers, and equip the lower arm actuator. Go in to testing grounds, twist all the way to the right, and unlock your arms letting the arm reticle go off to the right a bit. Fire the gauss. You will see it go straight to where the arm reticle is.

It has been this way since I started playing in early winter, 2013. That is why the AC20 Victors and the HGN-733C have always had a little bit of arm articulation, even with an AC20 or 2 UAC5s.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 July 2015 - 06:47 PM, said:

Most importantly, take a Timber Wolf with Gauss in the right arm, and the prime arm in the left with two lasers, and equip the lower arm actuator. Go in to testing grounds, twist all the way to the right, and unlock your arms letting the arm reticle go off to the right a bit. Fire the gauss. You will see it go straight to where the arm reticle is.

It has been this way since I started playing in early winter, 2013. That is why the AC20 Victors and the HGN-733C have always had a little bit of arm articulation, even with an AC20 or 2 UAC5s.

The Dire's doesn't though, it fires straight ahead regardless of where the reticle moves left/right, because that right arm has no lower arm actuator, and that's exactly what I was referring to. The arm has vertical movement because it has an upper arm actuator, so I was right, it was exactly as I remembered and hasn't changed. I was wondering what the hell you guys were talking about, I've never seen a Dire move ballistic arms to the side, they don't do that. Same as my YLW/AH and Jager, up and down, that's it, gotta twist the torso for lateral movement.

[IraqiWalker]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

The Dire's doesn't though, it fires straight ahead regardless of where the reticle moves left/right, because that right arm has no lower arm actuator, and that's exactly what I was referring to. The arm has vertical movement because it has an upper arm actuator, so I was right, it was exactly as I remembered and hasn't changed. I was wondering what the hell you guys were talking about, I've never seen a Dire move ballistic arms to the side, they don't do that. Same as my YLW/AH and Jager, up and down, that's it, gotta twist the torso for lateral movement.

I think he's saying you can get the DWF-A Right Arm pod to give the Gauss in your left arm lateral movement?

[Gas Guzzler]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 06:54 PM, said:

The Dire's doesn't though, it fires straight ahead regardless of where the reticle moves left/right, because that right arm has no lower arm actuator, and that's exactly what I was referring to. The arm has vertical movement because it has an upper arm actuator, so I was right, it was exactly as I remembered and hasn't changed. I was wondering what the hell you guys were talking about, I've never seen a Dire move ballistic arms to the side, they don't do that. Same as my YLW/AH and Jager, up and down, that's it, gotta twist the torso for lateral movement.

You have to have a lower arm actuator in one arm. It should work, I have done that before in a Dire.

[Gas Guzzler]

Confirmed. Equip Dire-A right arm and lower arm actuator, gauss in left arm, you will have some horizontal articulation with the gauss arm.

[Kristov Kerensky]

That video showed the reticle moving slightly but the shots went straight ahead, and that's been my own experience with it, which is why I don't bother with it. I've never seen Dire's aiming their arms when ballistics are in one or both to the sides, up and down, nothing else.

[Zordicron]

Prosperity Park, on 13 July 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

The Clan Gauss Rifle weighs 3 tons less than the IS version. What are the balancing factors used to compensate for this?

Does it have a slower charge-up time? No.
Does it have a slower recycle time? No.
Shorter range? Less damage? No. No.
Does it take up more slots? No, opposite, it takes up fewer slots.
Does it explode more easily? No; in fact Clanners get 0-tonnage CASE on every arm and torso section to boot.
Does it cause more internal damage when it explodes? No.


Does it do anything at all that balances the 3 fewer tons and 1 fewer slot? No.

When can we expect a change to this situation?

(This is not an IS player whining, this is a video gamer scratching his head in wonder)

Ya done gud, ya done gud. Coming up on 14 pages of spreadsheet warriors throwing their slide rules at each other and nerd ragers' rampages. So much pointless blather, so many posters pointing fingers. Nary an intelligent discussion to be found, nay, not a relevant one either.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Kristov Kerensky, on 14 July 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

That video showed the reticle moving slightly but the shots went straight ahead, and that's been my own experience with it, which is why I don't bother with it. I've never seen Dire's aiming their arms when ballistics are in one or both to the sides, up and down, nothing else.

By straight ahead you mean followed the arm reticle or torso, because those shots definitely followed the arm reticle?