1017 replies to this topic

[FightingFetus]

PFC Carsten, on 11 August 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

With the same rights as you, I hereby claim that solo queue should be unavailable for players who joined a unit. They can go to CW to level their mechs, to earn their c-bills and everything else. It's solo queue after all, not unit queue.

People bringing their battle-hardened equipment earned with tons of CW cash into the solo queue do make matchmaking complicated, working together unbalances PUG/solo queue matches etc. pp.

I would go so far as to completely separate both queues. Decided upon installing the client if you want to join a unit, then go to unit queue, face experienced adversaries in battle-hardened, mastered mechs, fully meta'ed and equipped with modules where companies are mostly made up from the latest and greatest MWO-tech has to offer.

And leave the same for us solo droppers.

And then count population after a few month and decide which group of players would be considered more successfull from a business POV for PGI. Close the other one down.

[/hyperbole]

^PFC Carsten wins the prize for best use of reverse psychology... This proves how there needs to be a middle ground people.


You think you want 12v12 premade only groups? Look at World of Tanks and their faction warfare system.

Very well thought out and sounds awesome right? It doesnt work. WOT has at least 10x the population of MWO and even there organizing specific time slots to link up with other clans and then actually having everybody make it online at the right time is a huge pain.


They need to reduce the CW combat to IS vs Clans and then allow a third faction, Mercs, which can act to fill in the rosters of IS vs Clan matches that need more players. This way there is a large enough pool of players in each "faction" to allow a queue which is absolutely essential to a good playing experience. Even units/clans dont want to be waiting around 1 hour between matches for timeslots to roll around.

IS and Clan will be mech specific, and give Unit loyalty bonuses, while the Mercs could use both IS and Clan mechs as their bonus.. This will lead to more people (especially solo players) being in the Merc faction, and so even if there are no IS vs Clan battles, it could still be IS vs Merc or Clan vs Merc, or even Merc vs Merc... Doing it like this doesnt mean Units can't acquire meaningful territory either.


If this was implemented right, you could possibly even remove the regular solo queue all together.


All I know is I had a number of fantastic CW matches last week where there was like a 5-7 man premade group on either team and then solo players filling out the rest of the slots and it was amazingly fun.

Edited by FightingFetus, 11 August 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Armando, on 11 August 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

I am far, Far, FAR from being an elitist. I welcome new players, I welcome veteran players who are shall we say 'less than skilled'. I have never said that 'new' / 'less skilled verterans' shouldn't be allowed to play in community warfare. What I HAVE SAID is that PGI needs to ensure that every player that drops in community warfare is READY to drop in community warfare, you know, as a member of a community.

What do I mean by that?

If you are going to drop in community warfare you need to have 'owned' mechs. Trial mechs are garbage and by letting players queue for community warfare in trial mechs is SETTING THEM and THEIR TEAMMATES UP FOR FAILURE, in addition to wasting the time of the 12 enemy players who waited 30+ minutes to face and fight against a TEAM.

If you are going to drop in COMMUNITY warfare, you need to be a PART OF A COMMUNITY of players.

Players who are willing or unable to drop in non-trial mechs as a member of a community have no place in COMMUNITY warfare. PGI has done a wonderful job of providing such players with an outlet they can use to play the game, it is called the Solo Queue.

Agree to disagree. Some of your posts in this thread come across to me as incredibly snobbish.

Why not just continue to improve trial mechs then? Much more of what just happened with several of the champion variants?

And honestly, you are hung up on a name of a game mode. If this was called Inner Sphere at War or Galactic Warfare it wouldn't matter. MWO does NOT have a player population big enough that you get to be so exclusive.

You know how you get and build a community? By not excluding people. You fix it so its more welcoming to them.

You are going at this the completely wrong way.

[Vlad Ward]

Lorian Sunrider, on 11 August 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Agree to disagree. Some of your posts in this thread come across to me as incredibly snobbish.

Why not just continue to improve trial mechs then? Much more of what just happened with several of the champion variants?

And honestly, you are hung up on a name of a game mode. If this was called Inner Sphere at War or Galactic Warfare it wouldn't matter. MWO does NOT have a player population big enough that you get to be so exclusive.

You know how you get and build a community? By not excluding people. You fix it so its more welcoming to them.

You are going at this the completely wrong way.

Was agreeing with you up until the end there.

What more can really be added from a technical standpoint? Let's look at what CW already has:

-Pre-Match lobbies with which to communicate with your team.

-The ability to change your drop deck after learning what map you're on, what game mode you're playing, and who else you're playing with.

-In-Game VOIP using Teamspeak tech so that non-unit players don't have to type everything.

-In-game sub-grouping via lances with their own chat channel and mini-map color.

-The ability to paint the minimap for players who don't understand commonly used terms for locations (Saying "Alpha Gate" on Counterattack, for example).

What the hell else can be done at this point? Should Paul Inouye start making home visits to all players with an ELO over 1600 to deliver touchscreen laptops with no mouse or USB interface and force them play the game on them so that weaker players stand more of a fighting chance?

Some players just want to win while being bad. That's all it comes down to, and there's no "fix" in the world that will work for them bar everyone better than them quitting.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 11 August 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

The Basilisk, on 11 August 2015 - 01:58 AM, said:

How would it be possible to make sure only players able and ready to perform go into CW ?

Isn't that the question lingering around ?

Or let me put it even more straight:
"How do I prevent " NOOOOOOBS " ( players with poor skills regarding the games funktionality etc. and unwilling to learn how to play, and I'm quite proud to count myself as one of them cause much of this game is just a effin violation of BattleTech ) from playing CW ?"


Answer: "You can't."


This Game has a lot of fans originating from different camps who are completely incompatible.
Ironically those ppl are the Iron core of this games population.
I frankly don't know how to get more ppl in this game who accept on one side this isn't a casual game if you want to be successfull and who don't have the main reason for clinging to this game beeing either " Yea its Battletech" or "Yea its Mechwarrior" or at least "Yea big stompy robots"

Looking at this game and remembering all and every friend, colleague or relative I tried to bring into MWO ( and who have left after some short time ) I can see no other reason for sticking with this game.
Cause to other ppl looking at MWO there is no GAME besides modifieing mechs, wasting ridiculous amounts of money on early access to Mechs and moving and shooting.

A Game needs something to actually play with and in MWO there realy is nothing you can't either get cheaper and with more functionality ( and less bugged ) elsewhere.

I understand that a company would make more money easier with lots and lots of casuals.
But neither MWO nor BattleTech is realy for casuals.

Thats why CW which depends on a large community to function won't work.

Um, yes you can.

"Your ELO must be (this high) to play"

Easy.

Edited by Nathan K, 11 August 2015 - 04:48 PM.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Vlad Ward, on 11 August 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

What the hell else can be done at this point? Should Paul Inouye start making home visits to all players with an ELO over 1600 to deliver touchscreen laptops with no mouse or USB interface and force them play the game on them so that weaker players stand more of a fighting chance?

Some players just want to win while being bad. That's all it comes down to, and there's no "fix" in the world that will work for them bar everyone better than them quitting.

I think there is some confusion here. I agree with all of your points. I'm not saying players should have to dumb down.

I'm saying that if you want things like ELO ranked matches in CW you need to have a bigger player base. To have a bigger player base you need new players. To get new players you can't automatically exclude them.

To those types of players (win while being bad) then yeah, you and I are on the same page. They can suck it. But people in this thread want it to grow and become better and automatically slapping a "for pros only" label on it will keep it irrelevant and stagnant.

PGI doesn't have the resources to spend time and money growing a portion of the game that a minuscule amount of people will play.

Again, don't force players to dumb down. Just provide more tools to help players learn faster, better trial mechs, etc. Don't make it so only units can drop. Otherwise MS will continue to be the only real dictating force, the map will continue to be a joke and the casual players won't even look at it.

And by casual I don't mean "bad". I consider myself casual and I average 300-500 damage in Skirmish matches and I pilot mostly lights with a smattering of mediums.

[Rahul Roy]

Lorian Sunrider, on 11 August 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

You know how you get and build a community? By not excluding people. You fix it so its more welcoming to them.

You are going at this the completely wrong way.

The people this thread suggests excluding are the ones who don't become part of the community.

Maybe they don't want to, maybe they don't know how. Either way it doesn't matter how welcoming things are they won't be becoming a part of the community.

Vlad Ward, on 11 August 2015 - 02:15 PM, said:

What more can really be added from a technical standpoint? Let's look at what CW already has:

Technical features aside, look at some of the steps players (or "the community" if you will) have taken.

There are 'casual' units that invite anyone and everyone in a faction. I am part of one. Over time I have seen others leave this unit and switch to other units or even other factions. No hard feelings from either side.

So many threads pleading with people to get onto teamspeak, use VOIP/LFG, etc. It's almost pitiful how little this is all used compared to the # of people in CW.

There are youtube videos, google docs, podcasts, twitch feeds, all kinds of stuff.

The people who won't use any of the above and probably more that I am missing, these are the only ones I want to exclude from CW (because they themselves will not be part of the community).

And I don't feel bad about it because there is STILL a lot of fun MWO out there for them to enjoy.

[Vlad Ward]

Lorian Sunrider, on 11 August 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

I think there is some confusion here. I agree with all of your points. I'm not saying players should have to dumb down.

I'm saying that if you want things like ELO ranked matches in CW you need to have a bigger player base. To have a bigger player base you need new players. To get new players you can't automatically exclude them.

To those types of players (win while being bad) then yeah, you and I are on the same page. They can suck it. But people in this thread want it to grow and become better and automatically slapping a "for pros only" label on it will keep it irrelevant and stagnant.

PGI doesn't have the resources to spend time and money growing a portion of the game that a minuscule amount of people will play.

Again, don't force players to dumb down. Just provide more tools to help players learn faster, better trial mechs, etc. Don't make it so only units can drop. Otherwise MS will continue to be the only real dictating force, the map will continue to be a joke and the casual players won't even look at it.

And by casual I don't mean "bad". I consider myself casual and I average 300-500 damage in Skirmish matches and I pilot mostly lights with a smattering of mediums.

I suppose that's my bad. I assumed everyone had already discounted the OP's group-only suggestion as utter nonsense and thought you were talking about some other kind of systemic exclusion of newer players.

Better trial mechs would be nice, but I don't think it's likely they'll get much better than what we have. A tutorial would be handy, but let's be honest: The vast majority of bads aren't new players. They're just roleplaying dads who want to relive their 1980's tabletop days in virtual form.

NKVA was made up of a bunch of brand new players who started in, what, January? And they have some of the highest win rates in CW. It's not because they're poopsockers or diehard FPS gamers. They just don't have any particular ties to Lore, and that makes them flexible enough to play good Mechs without getting their boxers in a twist.

[PFC Carsten]

Armando, on 11 August 2015 - 01:04 PM, said:

Units can not queue as a group (be it a group of 2 or 12) for solo queue....only as solo players. This is the way it RIGHT NOW....so you get what you want. The solo queue has a system in place already that keeps players like you from ever facing players like me (It's called ELO). Nothing close in that is in place for COMMUNITY warfare.

I have said it before, I will say it again...

"Solo players dropping in Community Warfare" is a text book example of an oxymoronic statement.

A player who is part of a unit, dropping SOLO in a solo queue, is working as intended.

There is a game mode for 'solo only' 'end game' .... it is called Solaris. I am all in favor of PGI developing a Solaris style game mode....when they DO create a Solaris style game mode they would be STUPID to let Units drop as GROUPS in Solaris, just like it was STUPID to let Solo players drop SOLO (without being part of a community...aka faction / unit) in "Community" Warfare.

You really shouldn't have taken my post literally in the first place.

But to honor the topic: In my dictionary, Unit is not the same as Community. A Community, for example, is the total of registered readers/contributors of a website or forum like this one. Oops... Community Warfare, not Unit Warfare.

There have been quite a few good suggestions in this as well as in other threads, how CW could be reformed so that more people, solos and units alike, can enjoy the game mode that's been developed with the (financial!) help of both groups. Purely coming from that idea, that solos have paid for CW as well, prohibits the exclusion of solos from CW.

I for one could imagine a world, were CW as it is today is reserved for groups, but at the same time another instance is open for solos as well. Maybe even without persistence or planets - just another PUG queue with 12 vs. 12, 4-respawn and attacker/defender objectives. I guess - coming from my own experience - that solos might not care that much for persistence and conquering worlds as of now. That of course might change once there are tangible benefits to be had from "owning" a planet.

But at the same time I know that won't happen, because it would be the death of unit CW.

Rahul Roy, on 11 August 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

Well I didn't call anyone a problem.

I have an issue with people who don't know what they're doing going into the mode meant for people who know what they're doing. Probably because they don't know what they are doing.

IMO anyone who reads and posts on these forums knows what they are doing, enough that they should play CW if they choose.

There are people playing CW that clearly don't read and post on these forums, and in addition they don't participate in the MWO community enough to learn what they need to know from any other place. (unit, LFG, faction chat, TS, VOIP, team chat, etc). I don't think those people should be thrown into CW with 7 mouse clicks, and being asked to by CW.

I totally agree on the notion that PGI needs to educate their players better, especially for CW. Maybe with mandatory, scripted tutorial missions based on actual CW battles - including the awesome experience to get focused down by a couple of LL-Stalkers or their Clan counterpart (Adders? j/k). So especially newer players should know what CW's going to have in store for them.

[Armando]

Lorian Sunrider, on 11 August 2015 - 01:58 PM, said:

Agree to disagree. Some of your posts in this thread come across to me as incredibly snobbish.

Why not just continue to improve trial mechs then? Much more of what just happened with several of the champion variants?

And honestly, you are hung up on a name of a game mode. If this was called Inner Sphere at War or Galactic Warfare it wouldn't matter. MWO does NOT have a player population big enough that you get to be so exclusive.

You know how you get and build a community? By not excluding people. You fix it so its more welcoming to them.

You are going at this the completely wrong way.

First off, not talking about excluding ANYONE. This post is about bringing solo players into the COMMUNITY (aka: group warfare). It is a post asking PGI to give Solo players a real, viable, reason to buy 4 mechs and join a community of players to participate in COMMUNITY warfare.

Edited by Armando, 11 August 2015 - 03:14 PM.

[Gladewolf]

The OP stated " SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO QUEUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE" Sounds a lot like exclusion to me.

- It's not the Communities' fault that your unit can't, or won't support 12 man launches.
- No one should be excluded...or forced to play only on the terms of others

[Vajhra]

Solo players arent the problem here, its the fluidity of Clan/House association. It's nothing more then a contract and badge. It needs some culture and presence beyond the CW drops. My preference is to;

1. associate time of day to distance from Terra.. night is outer rim, day is Terra, it is set at various points away from noon according to distance to create an ambiance of scale to the challenge representing the depth of the battlespace. This makes Clanner's 'nightfighters' and dark and mysterious exploring the depths of space, while Houses more 'daytrippers' which more closely resembles the sun centric reality of planetary living. LOL but serious.

2. use planetary systems to define planets, instead of planets. This way solo maps can be used for CW as minor planets in a system which need to be won prior to dropping on the main CW map as the main planets in a system which once won are won until the next round. This finality might promote joining a unit. The solo maps being used in CW can be fought over repeatedly to set the theme for round map adjustment's about who is defending or attacking the main planet but only the main planets earn cash for the occupiers.

3. lines of supply, no isolated territory

4. make ghost drops difficult... add robot defender mechs.

5. make owned non-contested planets available for members of that Clan/House to drop onto for training or rallying troops. Let units have their colors on owned planets facilities so Clan/House culture can be developed in CW in areas other then dropping into a fight. This way solo's can be more easily integrated into units, but there still would be a great place for solo players to play in CW by duking it out on those solo maps minor planets... while the units would probably form up for big pushes on the main planet.

I think folk would like to feel immersed a bit more into the simulation of the universe in game as the community and those suggestions reflect that, rather then just signing up and dropping as the community as is current.

[Lorian Sunrider]

Armando, on 11 August 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

First off, not talking about excluding ANYONE. This post is about bringing solo players into the COMMUNITY (aka: group warfare). It is a post asking PGI to give Solo players a real, viable, reason to buy 4 mechs and join a community of players to participate in COMMUNITY warfare.

********. Thats not at all what half your posts have been, especially in the first half.

Go back and read the first post and tell me you aren't wanting to exclude people.

[Armando]

Gladewolf, on 11 August 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

The OP stated " SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO QUEUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE" Sounds a lot like exclusion to me.

- It's not the Communities' fault that your unit can't, or won't support 12 man launches.
- No one should be excluded...or forced to play only on the terms of others

You are so cute bless your heart...

It is clear that you read the 'sensationalized' headline and completely, totally, and utterly missed the point of the original post and all the post that followed in the tread. Don't worry brother I'm not mad, I still love you so I will give you time to go back to the beginning and read the original post along with my subsequent post in this tread, you know....catch up.


Now, isn't that better. Now that you are all caught up lets continue the converstaion together shall we...

Think about an in game progression system that prepares ALL players (including "Solo" players) by ensuring they know how to coordinate and play effectively with the 11 other pilots on their team where "Community Warfare" is the "End Game",

By the end of said 'progression' all players would...

...have earned enough c-bills to purchase, and be able to field a full drop deck for both Clan and IS factions.
...have learned how, and are able to use the social "private chat", "unit chat", and or "faction chat" in game functions to find and or form a group (hopefully a group that includes a "Drop Caller" if a player is unwilling / unable to take on the responsibility).
...have learned how, and are able to use the "team chat", "lance chat", and or "in game voice" in game functions to coordinate their activities with their teammates.

Any and every MWO pilot that know how, and effectively uses in game "chat" and "voice" functions to not only find or form a group, but also coordinate with that group....they are not solo pilots anymore (even if they are not in a unit or aligned with any faction). They are ready for "Community Warfare". Hence the sensational headline...

SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO QUEUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE

__________________________________________________________

Promise me when you read the headline to my next 'sensational' title you will not respond right away....take the time to READ not only what I have to say in the initial post (when I make it) but also how I respond throughout the tread, you will get a lot more out than just reading the title....hopefully anyway.

Still working on the original post for my next thread but I will tease you all with the title..

YOU ARE THE REASON WHY COMMUNITY WARFARE IS FAILING. YOU.....YES YOU. NO, NOT THAT OTHER GUY....YOU!!!!

Edited by Armando, 12 August 2015 - 04:10 AM.

[Uncle Totty]

Armando, on 12 August 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

You are so cute bless your heart...

It is clear that you read the 'sensationalized' headline and completely, totally, and utterly missed the point of the original post and all the post that followed in the tread. Don't worry brother I'm not mad, I still love you so I will give you time to go back to the beginning and read the original post along with my subsequent post in this tread, you know....catch up.


Now, isn't that better. Now that you are all caught up lets continue the converstaion together shall we...

Think about an in game progression system that prepares ALL players (including "Solo" players) by ensuring they know how to coordinate and play effectively with the 11 other pilots on their team where "Community Warfare" is the "End Game",

By the end of said 'progression' all players would...

...have earned enough c-bills to purchase, and be able to field a full drop deck for both Clan and IS factions.
...have learned how, and are able to use the social "private chat", "unit chat", and or "faction chat" in game functions to find and or form a group (hopefully a group that includes a "Drop Caller" if a player is unwilling / unable to take on the responsibility).
...have learned how, and are able to use the "team chat", "lance chat", and or "in game voice" in game functions to coordinate their activities with their teammates.

Any and every MWO pilot that know how, and effectively uses in game "chat" and "voice" functions to not only find or form a group, but also coordinate with that group....they are not solo pilots anymore (even if they are not in a unit or aligned with any faction). They are ready for "Community Warfare". Hence the sensational headline...

SOLO PLAYERS SHOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED TO QUEUE FOR COMMUNITY WARFARE

__________________________________________________________

Promise me when you read the headline to my next 'sensational' title you will not respond right away....take the time to READ not only what I have to say not only in the initial post (when I make it) but also how I respond throughout the tread, you will get a lot more out than just reading the title....hopefully anyway.

Still working on the original post for my next thread but I will tease you all with the title..

YOU ARE THE REASON WHY COMMUNITY WARFARE IS FAILING. YOU.....YES YOU. NO, NOT THAT OTHER GUY....YOU!!!!

Do you even know what you are saying here? I am a solo player. Yes I will work WITH the group, but I will not JOIN the group. (NO, they are NOT the some thing.)

Edited by Nathan K, 12 August 2015 - 02:02 AM.

[Armando]

Nathan K, on 12 August 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

Do you even know what you are saying here? I am a solo player. Yes I will work WITH the group, but I will not JOIN the group. (NO, they are NOT the some thing.)

The moment, the very SECOND you start to work WITH the group....You STOP being a solo player, unless of course you are an oxymoron...then you can play "solo" WITH the "group".

Edited by Armando, 12 August 2015 - 02:13 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

Ontological arguments went out of fashion in the 18th century, bro. 98% of this thread is you frantically backpedaling by disagreeing with people about the definitions of the terms you're using. There is zero real substance otherwise.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 12 August 2015 - 02:15 AM.

[Armando]

Vlad Ward, on 12 August 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

Ontological arguments went out of fashion in the 18th century, bro. 98% of this thread is you frantically backpedaling by disagreeing with people about the definitions of the terms you're using. There is zero real substance otherwise.

Could be....you are unwilling or not capable of understand the meaning of my posts.
Could be....I did a piss poor job of 'saying what I mean'.
Could be....I took 'the long way round' so people can grasp that there is no 'solo' in any MWO game mode...

...that there is ALWAYS 11 other teammates and 12 other enemies in the drop with them (even when they are dropping in the solo queue)

If you think you play this game 'SOLO" you need to stop lying. Stop lying to your enemies, stop lying to your teammates, and most important....STOP LYING TO YOURSELF. (and oh brother....if you think you EVER drop 'solo' in this game...you are lying to yourself).

In any event...if you can't find any "real substance" in my OP and the subsequent post....the fault is yours, not mine my friend.
_______________________

Once the 'solo players' realize they are lying to to themselves, and cast aside that silly STUPID notion that there is EVER a "solo" drop, then and only then, can that start to realize their potential and start having more fun playing the game than ever before.

Edited by Armando, 12 August 2015 - 02:47 AM.

[Vlad Ward]

I understand exactly what you're claiming you meant from the beginning.

Hurr durr teamwork is important in CW MWO Team Games. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Nothing else of value was gained from this thread.

WoW Dungeon Finder? Pre-Match lobby already handles that.

Make more MS-style zerg blob unit conglomerates? No thanks. The only reason MS does as well as it does is because SwK are actually decent players. The majority of the horde is rather inconsequential.

There is no shortage of 500+ member units that no one gives a crap about because 490+ of their players are awful. Making more of those won't change anything.

[STEF_]

Armando, on 09 August 2015 - 02:24 AM, said:

it is PGI fault for not giving people a reason to play community warfare as a community of players (in a group).

Sacred holy words.

Give a solid reason, and you'll see soloists (qquing because stomped by premades.....what da hell were they expecting?? ) regrouping in unit/team.
And maybe also they could see how much better they can do in a team.

But nope!
They don't want!
They still want to drop solo....oh, wait... no, they will never drop solo in cw again, because stomped. They want to drop solo and beat a 12 premade.

"logic fail. error...error....fail"

[Armando]

Vlad Ward, on 12 August 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

I understand exactly what you're claiming you meant from the beginning.

Hurr durr teamwork is important in CW MWO Team Games. Thank you, Captain Obvious. Nothing else of value was gained from this thread.

WoW Dungeon Finder? Pre-Match lobby already handles that.

Make more MS-style zerg blob unit conglomerates? No thanks. The only reason MS does as well as it does is because SwK are actually decent players. The majority of the horde is rather inconsequential.

There is no shortage of 500+ member units that no one gives a crap about because 490+ of their players are awful. Making more of those won't change anything.

It is clear you don't understand the full meaning of my post. Everything your response is prof positive of that.

Also, please show us on the doll where [-MS-] touched you...I say this because it is also clear from your post that you feel they have wronged you in some way...which is your business, but I need to ask you to please your personal business issues out of this conversation.

Edited by Armando, 12 August 2015 - 03:11 AM.