1017 replies to this topic

[Volkodav]

Solo Players Should Never Be Allowed - Not !

Newb Players Should Never Be Allowed - Yes !

http://imgur.com/a/fldqt

[Armando]

Zibmo, on 05 January 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

Very glib. So, in order to use the ONLY tool in the game which would allow for recruitment as there is no global chat (that works even in the mechlab with anyone who happens to be out of a match), no lobby, no out of instance VOIP and no direct communication (whisper), no ability to persist a team other than joining a unit (I can't find another player, in the current game and offer to team up with him for other group drops) other than that in CW for faction - faction and drop chat. Which is where your ilk wants to prevent new players and solos from "infiltrating".

In short, there are no persistent communications tools, nor is there any social way to offer to join up in the game other than a friends list. And in order to see any chat from them, I get a flashing icon at the bottom of my screen (out of a battle) which commonly blinks for no apparent reason. Which I must click on, thereby making it such that I can do nothing else but go into "social" mode. And the friend request has no note attached to it so that I can even see what the hell someone wants to friend me for. I've gotten a couple of troll requests.

They were able to give me a reporting tool at the roster. They seem to not understand that it might be a good idea to add other tools to the menu as well. At a bare minimum, add a whisper component and extend chat to an on-screen overlay.

One more thing. Even if, as I have seen, someone puts a recruitment statement into the existing in-battle chat window, there is no way to scroll back up to see it. So, one is left with "can you post that again please". But by that time, the battle is on and typing is sparse. If the person who posted it is on my team, it is possible that, assuming he can or will use VOIP (instead of the Teamspeak server he's probably on) he might repeat it on voice. If he happens to be on the other team, it's unlikely he'll be able or willing to repeat it.

You can white knight. But you can't very well claim that the tools that are patently not there work well.

Hay man listen to IraqiWalker, all you have to do is ask in faction chat...that is it.

Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what units are dropping in your faction.
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what groups are dropping in your faction.
Ask in faction chat and your mech will load itself out.
Ask in faction chat and your mech will pilot itself to victory.
Ask in faction chat and your dinner will make itself.
Ask in faction chat and your house will clean itself
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know which units are casual.
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what time zones each / every unit plays in.

Just ask IraqiWalker, Faction chat is the answer to everything. (I asked in faction chat and just got my d!c% s^c%3d off)

______________________

Back to reality, Faction Chat is a sub par tool accessible on an extremely limited basis "in game".

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 06:33 AM.

[Deathlike]

What Armando is trying to say... is that despite having the tools, it's not sufficient due to the lack of refinements in the interface.

There's no unit roster for the faction you can reference.

There's no reliable way of getting the players on coms before the drop (mostly for dropdeck and plan management). It is probably inadvisable to spam TS info in faction chat,... so it makes more sense to spam that before the match (but you get that 1 minute countdown in an insta-drop scenario).

LFG is unreliable in the sense that it doesn't auto-cancel people looking to join a CW group in the queue once the group is launched into the planet (they may not necessarily be dropped into a match, but the game keeps adding people w/o informing them you're in queue). Of course, some people immediately remove themselves from a group (which happens for the impatient or uncomfortable).

Faction Chat is woefully insufficient for the kinds of things to improve drop and drop quality. Built-in VOIP/TS only applies DURING a match... which is also problematic for some of the stuff mentioned above.

[Armando]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

What Armando is trying to say... is that despite having the tools, it's not sufficient due to the lack of refinements in the interface.

There's no unit roster for the faction you can reference.

There's no reliable way of getting the players on coms before the drop (mostly for dropdeck and plan management). It is probably inadvisable to spam TS info in faction chat,... so it makes more sense to spam that before the match (but you get that 1 minute countdown in an insta-drop scenario).

LFG is unreliable in the sense that it doesn't auto-cancel people looking to join a CW group in the queue once the group is launched into the planet (they may not necessarily be dropped into a match, but the game keeps adding people w/o informing them you're in queue). Of course, some people immediately remove themselves from a group (which happens for the impatient or uncomfortable).

Faction Chat is woefully insufficient for the kinds of things to improve drop and drop quality. Built-in VOIP/TS only applies DURING a match... which is also problematic for some of the stuff mentioned above.

What Armando is trying to say... is that despite having the tools, it's not sufficient due to the lack of refinements in the interface. <--- THIS

Pretty much everything said by Deathlike, with a side of some other stuff on top.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 08:18 PM, said:

The exact OPPOSITE OF THIS is the point I'm trying to make.

I want to encourage PGI to improve BOTH their 'training tools' (add team based concepts to Mech Academy) AND their social tools (make finding / joining groups / units an easy, fun, and REWARDING experience)...

... with a result of ...

.. "all solo play being removed from CW"...

...BECAUSE - WOH - Everybody is not ONLY IN A GROUP, but HAPPY about it (Reward the behavior so that to NOT behave that way is clearly silly / stupid).

___________________

Lose a game in a 12 man....extra 1,000,000 C-Bills.
Win a game in a 12 man....extra 3,000,000 C-Bills.

Make the Rewards good enough, EVERYONE will play in a group.

Of course this only works if finding a group is easy (takes little/no time, energy, or effort).

soooo.........
your title was just click bait to get people to pay attention to your thread...

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

(I asked in faction chat and just got my d!c% s^c%3d off)

then you should probably do some self-policing in your faction chat. Ours never looks like that

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

soooo.........
your title was just click bait to get people to pay attention to your thread...

100% Click bait !!! If you READ the tread I have even stated as much.

(to be fair, the OP was a direct response to the "Pre-Made Groups Need To Be Capped" thread with it's BS original post stating "pre-made groups need to be limited to a single lance per side in CW". My response was 'keep teamwork out of a team game mode'....how about instead we....'keep solo's out of a team game mode'.

That said, once you get past the snark of my OP (yes, there is a LOT of snark in my OP...hell there is a LOT of snark in all my posts) this tread has gone on to have some really great idea's for imporving the CW experience for EVERYONE ("Solo" players included)...and example is the "Welcome to Community Warfare" message now in game. (was suggested in this tread).

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 09:00 AM, said:

then you should probably do some self-policing in your faction chat. Ours never looks like that

So your faction doesn't s^c% your d!c% on request? All jokes aside, Faction chat (while better than the nothing that was in place before) is not the end all, be all, solution to creating / joining groups.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 09:35 AM.

[Yozaa]

Yeah dropping solo is a bad idea

But i like the pain train (Hi Jarad)
when i drop solo I know wat to expect and I'm fine with that.
The unexpected victories are all the more rewarding.
No Expectations no disappointment.
Really gratifying when ur pug beats a pre made

New players tinkering with end game content are gonna have a bad day mostly

Mech on

[RjBass3]

Dropping solo isn't such a bad idea so long as you know that unless you get lucky and drop with a pre-made 11 man group, you are most likely gonna get stomped. I still drop solo in CW from time to time, and I know before I fire it up that I am only there to make some money, which I can still do even when the pugs I am with a getting clubbed to death. I've said it before in this thread and I will say it again, without pugs in CW, we wouldn't have enough population in CW to even play it, and despite how some people feel about CW, some of us actually do like CW.

After 5 months of arguing back and fourth in this thread, pugs are still in CW and I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

So your faction doesn't s^c% your d!c% on request? All jokes aside, Faction chat (while better than the nothing that was in place before) is not the end all, be all, solution to creating / joining groups.

I don't see a single person saying that. What they are saying is, you have tools, use them. If you actively choose not to use those tools that's on the individual, PGI.

Tools need to be better, I've never seen anyone say otherwise.

So who exactly are you arguing against because essentially all you're doing at this point it seems is arguing just to argue and keep a page count going.

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 10:59 AM, said:

I don't see a single person saying that. What they are saying is, you have tools, use them. If you actively choose not to use those tools that's on the individual, PGI.

Tools need to be better, I've never seen anyone say otherwise.

So who exactly are you arguing against because essentially all you're doing at this point it seems is arguing just to argue and keep a page count going.

Sandpit, my bad brother....I should have used the <sacasm> tags. It was meant to be a joke....because Iraqi was saying that everything you need is in faction chat (hince the 'all you have to do to get free he@d is ask in Faction Chat" type comment). Sorry for the corn-fusion.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Sandpit, my bad brother....I should have used the <sacasm> tags. It was meant to be a joke....because Iraqi was saying that everything you need is in faction chat (hince the 'all you have to do to get free he@d is ask in Faction Chat" type comment). Sorry for the corn-fusion.

I know you were being sarcastic, what I'm saying is that you've actually got some good discussion going on in here but you seem to just want to antagonize instead sometimes. There's some really good ideas in this thread, they're just getting buried under 45 pages of "other stuff" so the ideas, discussion, etc. are really hard to follow and dig out.

Which means it's just as hard for PGI to see those discussions and ideas as well

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

I know you were being sarcastic, what I'm saying is that you've actually got some good discussion going on in here but you seem to just want to antagonize instead sometimes. There's some really good ideas in this thread, they're just getting buried under 45 pages of "other stuff" so the ideas, discussion, etc. are really hard to follow and dig out.

Which means it's just as hard for PGI to see those discussions and ideas as well

I get that, but the 'snark' is part of my process, none of it happens without it. (I am what I am after all). That said, I feel confident that PGI can (and has) picked up on the pieces in this tread worth picking up on. (Thank you PGI for the "Welcome to Community Warfare" warning message...much appreciated and a major step in the right direction)

Don't stop there PGI...

...Improve the LFG! Let us see WHO is playing inside our units...including the 'rooms' of players dropping together... Let a player join a 'filled room' and wait for a spot to open (let people choose the group they join)

...Improve the Mech Academy! Specifically add 'team based' tutorials.

...Add a Looking for Unit "In-Game". Don't get it twisted...playing "Forum Warrior" can be fun sometimes, but should NOT be required to find/join a unit.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 11:56 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 11:40 AM, said:

Simply put...nothing.

The players you describe are what I call 'lost causes'...no matter what we as a community do, and no matter what improvements PGI makes to the game the players YOU describe will not change.

The suggestions I have made will do NOTHING to help 'those players', that said, there are MANY new / low tier players my suggestions would be 'game changing' for. (massive improvement to players 'in game' experience IMO).

Trouble is though my friend, those lost causes are EXACTLY the cause for silly threads like this. these lost causes are the ones coming onto the forums and whining like crazy about "unfair" premades. the solos that communicate and try I really doubt anyone has an issue with at all.
The lost causes are the ones spoiling CW and are fueling all the anymosity.....What is needed is a way to tackle them for the sake of the game.

[Armando]

kamiko kross, on 05 January 2016 - 12:22 PM, said:

Trouble is though my friend, those lost causes are EXACTLY the cause for silly threads like this. these lost causes are the ones coming onto the forums and whining like crazy about "unfair" premades. the solos that communicate and try I really doubt anyone has an issue with at all.
The lost causes are the ones spoiling CW and are fueling all the anymosity.....What is needed is a way to tackle them for the sake of the game.

Not that I disagree with any of this, nor to say there isn't a viable solution to this issue....I just have no clue what that solution is. (HARD to help people who don't want help).

[IraqiWalker]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 06:21 AM, said:

Hay man listen to IraqiWalker, all you have to do is ask in faction chat...that is it.

Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what units are dropping in your faction.
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what groups are dropping in your faction.
Ask in faction chat and your mech will load itself out.
Ask in faction chat and your mech will pilot itself to victory.
Ask in faction chat and your dinner will make itself.
Ask in faction chat and your house will clean itself
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know which units are casual.
Ask in faction chat and you will instantly know what time zones each / every unit plays in.

Just ask IraqiWalker, Faction chat is the answer to everything. (I asked in faction chat and just got my d!c% s^c%3d off)

Glad you're now getting it. Good for you.

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

So your faction doesn't s^c% your d!c% on request? All jokes aside, Faction chat (while better than the nothing that was in place before) is not the end all, be all, solution to creating / joining groups.

No one here argued that it is. It just does what you asked.

The hyperbole that there are no tools, is just that. Hyperbole. We have tools, and they can produce results, IF you actually bother to use them. Can they be improved? Yes. They probably should, but they are there, so people should really stop yapping about lack of tools, because that is a false statement.

[Armando]

IraqiWalker, on 05 January 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Glad you're now getting it. Good for you.



No one here argued that it is. It just does what you asked.

The hyperbole that there are no tools, is just that. Hyperbole. We have tools, and they can produce results, IF you actually bother to use them. Can they be improved? Yes. They probably should, but they are there, so people should really stop yapping about lack of tools, because that is a false statement.

Never said there 'are no tools' (since the tools have been release), what I have said is the tools suck donkey balls. Also...

...I have asked to see all the groups dropping for a faction....NOT happening in Faction Chat. (only see people in faction chat if they post a chat in the channel).

...I have asked that a player be able to move to filled groups channel so they can wait on a spot to open up...also, NOT happening in Faction Chat. So, CLEARLY you are mistaken.

I have said it before and I will say it again....a game that isn't made and will NOT be made for years already has a better group/unit finding system in place than MWO. That is F'in sad sack stuff right there my friends.

[StonedVet]

Man I'm lol'ing at the OP right now. So by your logic, myself, a person around since beta testing that went afk from game just before CW launch with mountains of pre CW organized drop play experience oh and used to lead/call matches should not be able to play CW because I would be using 3 trial mechs at first due to my decision to not play IS. You may want to rethink your reply, its lacking in logic more than the original thread statement.

[Armando]

Lowridah, on 05 January 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Man I'm lol'ing at the OP right now. So by your logic, myself, a person around since beta testing that went afk from game just before CW launch with mountains of pre CW organized drop play experience oh and used to lead/call matches should not be able to play CW because I would be using 3 trial mechs at first due to my decision to not play IS. You may want to rethink your reply, its lacking in logic more than the original thread statement.

Thought about it....don't care if you dropped in MILLION matches since the game started as IS, if you don't have 4 owned Clan mechs that are loaded out....YOUR OUT.

And I quote...

"FACTION PLAY HAS A STRONG EMPHASIS ON TEAM COHESION AND SPECIALIZED MECH LOADOUTS"

If you can't bring 4 "WELL-STOCKED AND HEAVILY CUSTOMIZED MECH LOADOUTS"...you are not ready for CW as Clan (even if you are an IS pro).

I like you (you dress sharp and smell good)...I just meet you in a forum but I feel like we are going to be fast friends. As your friend, and as much as I do like you, I don't like you so much that I would knowingly, let you unwittingly, fark 23 of my other friends. Also, I like you too much to let you fark YORUSELF over (If I did, I wouldn't be a good friend)

I want to see you succeed, as your friend to ensure you are successful (as possible) I am going to tell you lovingly, but firmly NO. As your friend I will do everything in my power to 'get you up to speed' as quick as possible...it is what a good friend does.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 04:51 PM.

[Sandpit]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 04:38 PM, said:

If you can't bring 4 "WELL-STOCKED AND HEAVILY CUSTOMIZED MECH LOADOUTS"...you are not ready for CW as Clan (even if you are an IS pro).

when you use "", that implies you are directly quoting, not paraphrasing or putting your own spin on it. Nowhere does it say what you said.
"four customized and familiar mechs"
not
"well stocked and heavily customized mech loadouts"

[Armando]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

when you use "", that implies you are directly quoting, not paraphrasing or putting your own spin on it. Nowhere does it say what you said.
"four customized and familiar mechs"
not
"well stocked and heavily customized mech loadouts"

I'm not implying it is a direct quote, IT IS a direct quote. It is easy to miss so I will try to highlight for you...



There is a reason this message exists, it is not only there for the protection of your personal gaming experience, but for the protection of 23 other pilots gaming experience as well.

If there was any way possible to ensure that there is NO chance a pilot taking trial mechs would have a negitive effect on the gaming experience of 23 other players in the drop....I could give exactly 2 sh!ats, but with the current state of the game a negative gaming experience is not only possible, it is probable taking trail mechs.

Taking trials to CW is tough roe for even 'high tier' pilots to hoe. To let a 'new player' wonder into CW using trials is to invite them to uninstall the game.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

How can this be avoided?

Make not one but TWO "Cadet Bonuses"...one for IS and another for Clan.

Cadet Bonus: Complete the Mech Academy. (Ensure 'Basic Teamwork" is covered during 'Training' that includes)...

****EDIT: What "includes" important to success in CW should be listed but isn't????****

...All the 'basic' skills currently available in the Mech Academy.
...A "How to use the In-Game team functions" class.
...A "How to form a Firing Line as a team" class.
...A "How to execute a !PUSH! as a team" class.
...A "How to find a 'called target'" class.

To ensure that EVERYONE (including people that could give 2 sh!ats about CW) goes through the training REWARD ANY player, be they someone who installed the game yesterday or someone who backed the game before there was a game, with...

...A 'one time' choice of any 4 IS mechs* for completing the "IS Mech Academy" training + Enough C-Bills to "WELL STOCK AND HEAVILY CUSTOMIZE" all 4 mechs.

... AND / OR...

...A 'one time' choice of any 4 Clan mechs* for completing the "Clan Mech Academy" training + Enough C-Bills to "WELL STOCK AND HEAVILY CUSTOMIZE" all 4 mechs.

* The total weight of the pilots choice of 4 mechs is required to be within the current CW drop tonnage limits.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You complete the IS training...an option to play CW as IS - or - lone wolf is 'unlocked'.
You complete the Clan training...an option to play CW as Clan - or - lone wolf is 'unlocked'.
You complete both IS and Clan training...an option to play CW as a Mercenary is 'unlocked'.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If PGI can find a way to make the 'team based' game they have created...fun, easy, and rewarding to play AS A TEAM...no 'solo' player will ever drop in CW again.

If PGI does it 'right', the training will be SO FUN, pilots go back through it during 'off peek' hours or while waiting for friends to come online.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Since passing "Cadet Training" is a requirement for entry into CW, it guarantees everyone who is playing CW has a shared the 'communal gaming experience' of Cadet Training (everyone can relate to everyone else on at least ONE level).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

ALL snark aside (and I can be one snarky SOB)....I love you, ALL OF YOU !!!
I don't want to leave ANYONE out, just want to make sure EVERYONE is set up for success.

Thank you for reading!!!

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 10:05 PM.