232 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Sarlic, on 17 August 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sean Lang did. Russ did.

ooooooo! show please! I wanna see it!

[Mister Blastman]

kapusta11, on 17 August 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Spread is the same for SRMs at any range.

No, it is not. They fan out from the point of launch so under 50 meters they are a lot tighter.

[FupDup]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 17 August 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

ooooooo! show please! I wanna see it!

For the most part he's just said that "it's a gamechanger." He hasn't really given any specific info about it yet...

[Sarlic]

FupDup, on 17 August 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

For the most part he's just said that "it's a gamechanger." He hasn't really given any specific info about it yet...

Still counts as info . But for others perhaps not.

[Mister Blastman]

Make flamers useful. Boat four flamers--if you get hit by these, it should be instant shutdown. It should also raise your heat a lot too.

Mechwarrior 2: Mercenaries had wonderful balance for them. A single 4-flamer deathbloom could explode an enemy 'mech if they were already hot. However... firing that deathbloom would cost you 50% of your own heat right away. But that's the thing... the flamers were an instant deathbloom cloud. There was no spray or heat over time. It was a cloud of hot plasma that slammed into whatever was in front of it. It didn't do much damage, however. It was the perfect solution up close to laser boats.

Likewise, make SRMs have splash damage and triple damage multipliers like the days of old. Splat Cats™ and Centurion Bombs™ were feared for a reason. I see no reason at all for them to be oppressed any longer.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

FupDup, on 17 August 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

For the most part he's just said that "it's a gamechanger." He hasn't really given any specific info about it yet...

Awwww, that doesn't count

I'm just really hoping they don't nerf clan small lasers.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 17 August 2015 - 12:14 PM.

[Sarlic]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 17 August 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

Awwww, that doesn't count

I'm just really hoping they don't nerf clan small lasers.

Oh. Just keep buying packs then. I mean, go for for it! And complain afterwards quirks are removed and scream demand a refund.

Just saying.. It doesnt take rocketscience to see what's about.

Edited by Sarlic, 17 August 2015 - 12:22 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sarlic, on 17 August 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sean Lang did. Russ did.

Depends what you define as 'nothing'.

PGI and balance does not go well together. Extreme balance changes previous two times. Why would this one make different?

Russ was not happy about the laser spam. Obvious thinking.

So Russ wants to nerf lasers right as he releases an extremely energy heavy mech pack. Why...

But in all honesty, the only competitive IS laser boats that are competitive have extreme quirks. It stands to reason that most of the nerfs will be done on the Clan side, with IS energy boats getting less quirks than they originally had.

[Chados]

I think lasers are just fine, it's ECM and advanced zoom that need nerfs. Invisible snipers are anti-fun and need strong and useable LRMs that can reliably lock and fire indirectly to suppress them. Right now the balance is with the snipers.

To get rid of boating there is only one fix: Scaled hardpoints that limit the number of weapons that can be placed in a location on a mech. So you don't get twelve medium pulse lasers on an assault mech, the player can only mount like five energy weapons total, so he's got to go with five larger weapons. Or not allowing six LRM5 and requiring the player to mount two LRM15 if he or she wants that number of tubes on the mech. Catapult C1s are already like that, they only have two missile hardpoints and LRM15 quirks, encouraging mounting LRM15s. That'll reduce the boating. A lot of the player base will really, vociferously hate that, though, it interferes with the LaserVomit meta too much.

[FupDup]

Chados, on 17 August 2015 - 02:59 PM, said:

I think lasers are just fine, it's ECM and advanced zoom that need nerfs. Invisible snipers are anti-fun and need strong and useable LRMs that can reliably lock and fire indirectly to suppress them. Right now the balance is with the snipers.

To get rid of boating there is only one fix: Scaled hardpoints that limit the number of weapons that can be placed in a location on a mech. So you don't get twelve medium pulse lasers on an assault mech, the player can only mount like five energy weapons total, so he's got to go with five larger weapons. Or not allowing six LRM5 and requiring the player to mount two LRM15 if he or she wants that number of tubes on the mech. Catapult C1s are already like that, they only have two missile hardpoints and LRM15 quirks, encouraging mounting LRM15s. That'll reduce the boating. A lot of the player base will really, vociferously hate that, though, it interferes with the LaserVomit meta too much.

The CPLT-A1 has 6 missile hardpoints, actually.

[bad arcade kitty]

Ascaloth, on 17 August 2015 - 06:55 AM, said:

Then you use dakka, do endless screen shake and ppl call you "cheesy", and if it's an I.S. mech "quirks op pl0x nerf".

Then you use LRMs, do endless rain of death, and ppl call you "noob usar of a no aim crutch & useless weapon".

Then you use PPCs on a quirked mech (the only ones worth it) and ppl scream "nerf pl0x quirks op".

I'll never understand this player base.

and the top hated mech in a nearby thread it's streakcrow, lol

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 08:11 AM, said:

Omg you people never learn. Nerfed PPCs into the ground, and lasers become the preferred energy weapon, so naturally they are everywhere, especially in CW where having no ammo restrictions is huge. And now you want lasers nerfed.

Nightmare1, on 17 August 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

We had PPCs/ERPPCs as meta. They got nerfed.

We then had ACs and PPCs/ERPPCs as meta. ACs got nerfed.

We had Gauss and PPCs/ERPPCs as meta. Gauss got nerfed.

We still had Gauss and PPCs/ERPPCs as meta. PPCs/ERPPCs got nerfed.

ACs started making a comeback into the meta. They got nerfed again.

About the only thing left is lasers. Nerf that and you just start the cycle all over again. Thank goodness PPCs/ERPPCs recently got a buff so that they are somewhat useful again!

That's just fine. As long as they are nerfing the weapons and increasing TTK, as opposed to buffing other weapons and decreasing TTK.

Nightmare1, on 17 August 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

We just need sized hardpoints.

I personally would love Sized Hardpoints.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

That's just fine. As long as they are nerfing the weapons and increasing TTK, as opposed to buffing other weapons and decreasing TTK.




I personally would love Sized Hardpoints.

What's wrong with TTK? Let's 1v1 and see how long it takes one to kill the other (not an e-peen match I just mean to prove a point that in an equal battle TTK is fine).

Seriously TTK is only too low when you **** up. I do it, everyone does it once in a while. Make a mistake, you die. Even in TT, if you had 3 Dire Wolves and 3 Timber Wolves all firing on one mech, how long would that one mech last?

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 04:03 PM, said:

What's wrong with TTK? Let's 1v1 and see how long it takes one to kill the other (not an e-peen match I just mean to prove a point that in an equal battle TTK is fine).

Seriously TTK is only too low when you **** up. I do it, everyone does it once in a while. Make a mistake, you die. Even in TT, if you had 3 Dire Wolves and 3 Timber Wolves all firing on one mech, how long would that one mech last?

Judging by the fact that my BLR-3S can kill most Heavies and Assaults in 3 alphas (without overheating at all!) by coring the CT with its laservomit, TTK is not fine. And that's just 1v1. TTK much shorter if there are multiple mechs ganging up.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 August 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Let's not forget that adorable business buzzword...

Synergy.

Lasers are boated because they are effective by themselves, but don't play well with others. You generally have to alternate fire with them when paired with ballistics, missiles and PPC's, which means more face time - and more face time means more damage received from lasers.

Are ballistics competitive? Yes. 'Sphere ballistics are great for unloading PPFLD, and Clan Dakka is great for shock and awe. The tonnage investment though is fairly great, which generally rules them out for any but the most heavily quirked mediums, and they are pretty much irrelevant on lights. They also don't really pair well with PPC's any more, so there's little to recommend them over the simplicity and effectiveness of lasers.

Lasers only synergize with lasers.

[FupDup]

Kiiyor, on 17 August 2015 - 04:13 PM, said:

Let's not forget that adorable business buzzword...

Synergy.

Lasers are boated because they are effective by themselves, but don't play well with others. You generally have to alternate fire with them when paired with ballistics, missiles and PPC's, which means more face time - and more face time means more damage received from lasers.

Are ballistics competitive? Yes. 'Sphere ballistics are great for unloading PPFLD, and Clan Dakka is great for shock and awe. The tonnage investment though is fairly great, which generally rules them out for any but the most heavily quirked mediums, and they are pretty much irrelevant on lights. They also don't really pair well with PPC's any more, so there's little to recommend them over the simplicity and effectiveness of lasers.

Lasers only synergize with lasers.

Well...they work well with Goose Waffles because of the high velocity (almost syncs with hitscan) and heatless nature (compliments high-heat lasers).

Lock-on missiles "technically" synergize with them because the missiles don't care where you aim, so you just have to hit them with your lazors and the missiles will ttrack towards wherever the force wills them to go...the issue is just that lock on missiles are gimmicky for their own reasons. :\

My 4 ERML + 2 UAC/5 Loki works well enough, even before the buffs...

Edited by FupDup, 17 August 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 17 August 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

Judging by the fact that my BLR-3S can kill most Heavies and Assaults in 3 alphas (without overheating at all!) by coring the CT with its laservomit, TTK is not fine. And that's just 1v1. TTK much shorter if there are multiple mechs ganging up.

Ah so you are playing against people who let you have their CT for 3 alphas.. that sounds like the issue

You will also notice that an AC boat can put out more DPS than your BLR, yet they are not on the nerfing block?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 17 August 2015 - 04:17 PM.

[Ultimax]

cdlord, on 17 August 2015 - 06:39 AM, said:

No specific mechs, no specific faction, no specific side, no specific laser, no specific quirk; as it should be.

Lasers across the board need substantial nerfs.

When I see 90% of mechs in matches run laserboats, there's something wrong. Had the honor of getting stomped by a well known comp group and guess what, they were all running laserboats. Nary a missile or AC among them.

And a nerf doesn't even have to apply to a laser, could be a general heat rescale.

#bringthehatred

A year and a half ago people like you were endlessly bitching about PPCs and Ballistic weapons.

Lasers were trash heap weapons you got made fun of for using, due to their burn times.



Look where that whining got us, look where we are now.



Moral of the story: this myopic player base lacks any sense of forethought and needs to stop the incessant mewling for nerfs.


In essence if you make a thread like this, you are unlikely to be smart enough to actually comprehend the full ramifications and cascading gameplay changes that will take place.




Sorry for the harsh tone, but I have run out of sugar to coat things with.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 17 August 2015 - 04:33 PM.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 17 August 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

A year and a half ago people like you were endlessly bitching about PPCs and Ballistic weapons.

Look where that got us.

Moral of the story: this myopic player base lacks any sense of forethought and needs to stop the incessant mewling for nerfs.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 17 August 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

Ah so you are playing against people who let you have their CT for 3 alphas.. that sounds like the issue

You will also notice that an AC boat can put out more DPS than your BLR, yet they are not on the nerfing block?

That's cause their ACs have far less FLD, which is the main issue here. DPS AC boating build requires facetime and facetime = death against my laser vomit 3S.