274 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

I could go along with that, really I could, IF many of these situations weren't things that we had tested extremely thoroughly over hundreds of collective hours and they didn't refute the results for week after week - then out of nowhere there was a fix for the exact thing we showed them was the problem that they refused to acknowledge existed.

There was no, "hey you guys were right on that one". Just patch notes - "Raven 3L hitboxes have been corrected".

[stjobe]

Yellonet, on 30 August 2015 - 01:41 AM, said:

An honest question; why are you here? It seems you have no faith in PGI at all, so if everything just keeps getting worse you may just be tormenting yourself by sticking around.

An honest question deserves an honest answer.

I am here because I've been in love with BattleTech since 1985, when I played my first game at a gaming convention. I bought the 2nd edition box right after the game ended, and that was the start of a love affair that's been going strong for 30 years now.

I've played (and still own) BattleTech, CityTech, AeroTech, Solaris VII, BattleForce, and MechWarrior (the pen-and-paper RPG). I've lost count of how many TROs, sourcebooks, and novels I own.

I've played Crescent Hawk's Inception and Crescent Hawk's Revenge, the original MechWarrior and MW2. I've played MechCommander I and II, but for some reason I've never played MW3 or 4. Might be because MW2 and MW3 was Clans. I don't really like the Clans and the power-creep they symbolize.

I am, to put it mildly, a fan of the BattleTech universe - at least prior to the Clan invasion.

Back in 2012, an unknown dev studio named PGI asked if I wanted to help them bring about a game set in the BattleTech universe, a game which they - self-professed BattleTech fans - were planning to keep as close to BattleTech as possible.

Of course I jumped at it.

Turns out PGI aren't really the huge BattleTech fans they claimed to be - Paul is on record saying he only ever played a single match of BattleTech - and the translation from the TT rules were iffy at best from the get-go. Tripled rates of fire would have been fine if they'd only tripled dissipation, or slashed damage and heat per shot by a third, but why they thought a BattleTech game could do without heat penalties I cannot really fathom. My guess is that is was hard to do.

PGI doesn't do hard. PGI does "minimally viable".

Anyway, three years later I'm still here, partly because, as Flash Frame said above, there's not much competition if you want a game at least somewhat connected to the BattleTech universe. MWO is it, at least not for another year or so while HBS makes their BattleTech game.

And to be fair, the core game here is rather good; the feeling of piloting 'mechs is good, the basic move-around-and-shoot is well done, the 'mechs look absolutely beautiful, and the maps are okay.

But we had all that in closed beta already, and apart from new 'mechs the production of new features have been absolutely glacial, not to mention that several steps have been taken away from BattleTech, not towards it - the implementation of ECM for one, Ghost Heat for another, and there's plenty more.

Either way, I'm here because I still enjoy dropping in a match from time to time, but to be completely honest I'm down from 30+ hours a week to perhaps half that per month, if even that.

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 August 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

we show 24 v 24

but its not promising it

and its not false advertising, its fan made

and advertising is always a lie

did I get all the excuses right?

Except it was fan made. And every Mech in that trailer was a member of my unit playing on the normal game servers, not a texture artist on a secret internal test server. Celestial made the coolest video he could think up, and PGI supported him 100%.

Letting a talented fan produce the official launch video for your video game? That's community outreach.

Christ, it's frustrating to even look like a white knight, but if you're going to start laying smack down on my buddy's videos we're gonna have a bad time. The sheer scale of fan involvement in MWO promotional material is staggering, and I think that's a very good thing.

PGI engages their fans - at least the ones who don't try to play whack-a-dev with an 80lb sledgehammer the second one pops their head out in public.

[Nightmare1]

I can drink to the OP.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

Except it was fan made.

Quote

and its not false advertising, its fan made

said that

[MechaBattler]

What the OP expects





What the community is really like

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 August 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

said that

Yes. And then I went on to mention that that's a very good thing, and I'd rather have a really cool, if mildly inaccurate, fan trailer than some "factually correct", "lawyer approved" fraps montage.

It's nuts-in-mouth complaints like this that are the cause of the drastic drop in public developer interaction. PGI can't say anything without 2 lawyers and 5 engineers present to fact check their ****, lest some 35 year old white guy from Hickville, Kansas pops a blood vessel because video game developers were wrong on the internet.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 August 2015 - 01:15 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Yes. And then I went on to mention that that's a very good thing, and I'd rather have a really cool, if mildly inaccurate, fan trailer than some "factually correct", "lawyer approved" fraps montage.

It's nuts-in-mouth complaints like this that are the cause of the drastic drop in public developer interaction. PGI can't say anything without 2 lawyers and 5 engineers present to fact check their ****, lest some 35 year old white guy from Hickville, Kansas pops a blood vessel because video game developers were wrong on the internet.

no; lied. several times. Theres a difference and youve proven you cant see that

Oh yeah, you remember when they outright stole art from a player? Then accused other players of designing ads to discredit mwo? no?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 August 2015 - 01:17 PM.

[stjobe]

KraftySOT, on 30 August 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

I dont think PGI ever lies. I think PGI is simply wrong in those instances, and then because theyre a business, never admit it or backpedal even if they figure out they made a mistake.

Thats what companies do.

When you really really screw up, like the 'Youre on an island' comment, or BP's oil rig exploding...then you have to apologize, but for every small item, you protect the whale.

Paul on ECM, 2013-04-03: "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be"

Paul on ECM, 2015-07-15: "ECM was never meant to be a magic bubble used by 1 or 2 'Mechs to protect an entire 12 player team [...] It is crazy that a 'Mech that far away from an ECM equipped 'Mech is covered by it's protective bubble."

Well, Paul. If it was "never meant" to be "crazy", why did you design it like that, implement it like that, and defend it working like that for over two years?

Edited by stjobe, 30 August 2015 - 01:18 PM.

[FupDup]

stjobe, on 30 August 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Paul on ECM, 2013-04-03: "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be"

Paul on ECM, 2015-07-15: "ECM was never meant to be a magic bubble used by 1 or 2 'Mechs to protect an entire 12 player team [...] It is crazy that a 'Mech that far away from an ECM equipped 'Mech is covered by it's protective bubble."

Well, Paul. If it was "never meant" to be "crazy", why did you design it like that, implement it like that, and defend it working like that for two years?

You could say that it was...his position at the time.

[Vlad Ward]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 30 August 2015 - 01:16 PM, said:

no; lied. several times. Theres a difference and youve proven you cant see that

Oh yeah, you remember when they outright stole art from a player? Then accused other players of designing ads to discredit mwo? no?

I don't, actually. That sucks, and I really hope the artist was able to work something out with them.

See poster 2 clicks up for the kind of neurosis that's really just embarrassing, though. It's like people aren't allowed to change their minds, allow ideas to evolve, or generally be people on the interwebs.

Edit: I don't doubt PGI's screwed up, or even lied, on several occasions.

I just don't care all that much.

This is 21st century video game development. I've seen a lot worse.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 August 2015 - 01:24 PM.

[KraftySOT]

I just dont think theyre purposefully lying, but being purposefully obtuse.

Of course we test these things and know whats going on because we spend 20+ hours actually using their product, and they spend 60 hours a week making it.

We have a different perspective. They can hop in the game on the weekends, or listen to their internal testers, but 9 times out of 10, the forums have already figured out whats going to happen.

The problem is, were obtuse too, because there are so many voices. While out of 14 pages and 300 posts, maybe 10 posts are right on, everyone else is arguing or confused.

So they never see it. Theres no platform or method for us to tell them the truth and them to tell us the truth.

So they have a completely different idea of whats happening, than whats actually happening. Whenever they do try and find out whats happening from us, we act like ******** and cant be consistent or push the truth to the top.

So its a cluster ****.

Its not malice. Its just lack of information.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

http://mwomercs.com/...new-google-ads/

Quote

Oh... I just found it here and started reading.

It's been a while since I last saw a real MWO advertisment. I don't know if those posted here are fake or real. Both theories have merit.

I know how spiteful some of the ex-MWO players are and I wouldn't put it past them to create such a thing to showcase PGI/IGP in a bad light (option A). At the same time, I can also see a third party marketing company using these adds, either to create some income from both SS and PGI/IGP work for their own benefit (option B ), or being hired by IGP for marketing and using the wrong artwork (option C).

Considering that PGI/IGP have created their own adds in the past, without the need for third party help, I'm pretty confident it is not option C, but I'm not 100 % sure.

I thik he was a mod at the time lol

stjobe, on 30 August 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Paul on ECM, 2013-04-03: "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be"

Paul on ECM, 2015-07-15: "ECM was never meant to be a magic bubble used by 1 or 2 'Mechs to protect an entire 12 player team [...] It is crazy that a 'Mech that far away from an ECM equipped 'Mech is covered by it's protective bubble."

Well, Paul. If it was "never meant" to be "crazy", why did you design it like that, implement it like that, and defend it working like that for over two years?

I gotta find that PC Gamer (was it) article when ecm came if where they were trying to tell us it was working as intended with no counters for more than four months

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 01:21 PM, said:

I just don't care all that much.

Thats obvious. Except all the defending and excuses youve posted here tell the lie to that

[Yellonet]

Wow... this thread is really going in the wrong direction...

[Kodyn]

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this thread?

OP is either a very, very well-versed and subtle troll, or this is his first forum ever. Naturally this very thread devolved into much of the same behavior he was "lamenting".

This is the interweb. This is a forum for a game community. It is what it is, and in my experience, with many forums, MWO has one of the mildest out there.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

KraftySOT, on 30 August 2015 - 01:27 PM, said:

Its not malice. Its just lack of information.

lack of info... theyre the ones making the game. If THEY dont know who does?!

[Yellonet]

stjobe, on 30 August 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Paul on ECM, 2013-04-03: "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be"

Paul on ECM, 2015-07-15: "ECM was never meant to be a magic bubble used by 1 or 2 'Mechs to protect an entire 12 player team [...] It is crazy that a 'Mech that far away from an ECM equipped 'Mech is covered by it's protective bubble."

Well, Paul. If it was "never meant" to be "crazy", why did you design it like that, implement it like that, and defend it working like that for over two years?

Hitting the developers over the head with what they've said and possibly changed their mind about is a sure way to make them not wanting to share anything with the community.

[KraftySOT]

stjobe, on 30 August 2015 - 01:17 PM, said:

Paul on ECM, 2013-04-03: "Guardian ECM, like all features in the game, is very close to where we want it to be"

Paul on ECM, 2015-07-15: "ECM was never meant to be a magic bubble used by 1 or 2 'Mechs to protect an entire 12 player team [...] It is crazy that a 'Mech that far away from an ECM equipped 'Mech is covered by it's protective bubble."

Well, Paul. If it was "never meant" to be "crazy", why did you design it like that, implement it like that, and defend it working like that for over two years?

FupDup, on 30 August 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

You could say that it was...his position at the time.

This is a great example of whats wrong with advertising. Theyre not lying to you. They arent specifically using malice.

Theyre protecting the whale.

We were always at war with Oceania. Eurasia was always our friends. Oceania was always our friend. We were always at war with Eurasia.

Everyone does this. Its human. Its also terrible.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Yellonet, on 30 August 2015 - 01:32 PM, said:

Hitting the developers over the head with what they've said and possibly changed their mind about is a sure way to make them not wanting to share anything with the community.

Ignoring the past is so much better

sorry, cant do it

http://www.tiki-toki...-01-19_12:50:56!

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 August 2015 - 01:33 PM.

[Yellonet]

Kodyn, on 30 August 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

Am I the only one that sees the irony in this thread?

OP is either a very, very well-versed and subtle troll, or this is his first forum ever. Naturally this very thread devolved into much of the same behavior he was "lamenting".

This is the interweb. This is a forum for a game community. It is what it is, and in my experience, with many forums, MWO has one of the mildest out there.

I guess some stones are better left unturned eh...